[UPDATE #115] Rocker shoes or barefoot for a low-heeled negative palmar angle horse?

[ohmissbrittany]

[QUOTE=WannabeDQ;8331232]
I have a horse with this issue and I can sympathize with you. My guy has a low, flat foot that is a conformational defect and I knew in purchasing him that proper foot care would make or brake him. I hired the best farrier in my area, he did all the big show barns and charged a ton of money… so he must be good, right? Wrong. He lamed my guy up immediately. I gave him a chance to fix his work but he could not, so he was fired. Luckily I have a great vet who has no problem referring me to a specialist when she didn’t know how to fix the problem. New vet, new farrier and I had a sound horse! We did have to do wedge shoes at first to make him comfortable but now he is in a regular shoe with equipak pads. His foot looks almost ‘normal’ now, thanks to my farriers excellent trimming and I won’t let anyone touch his feet ever again except this farrier. Ha!

Not sure if this has been mentioned yet but the vet said letting the foot get wet and soft was NOT good for a horse suffering from low palmar angle. While we were getting my horse back on track he could not go out in the rain or the morning dew and we applied Effol whenever his feet were exposed to water. Now that he has a great foot, he can go out 24/7.

Just wanted to add: even though his foot is the best I have ever seen it, he still can not go barefoot AT ALL. Yours may be different though.[/QUOTE]

Funny you should say that. I found this interesting case history on a hoof rehab site: http://healthyhoof.com/case_studies/Emmet/Emmett.htm

The gist of it is the horse had thin soles naturally (many TB’s do from what I’ve read), and was retaining sole every time he would get a bruise. It cause a perplexing cycle of lame, better, lame before someone finally realized that he just needed a little more time to toughen up what little sole he did have before returning to full work.

It got me thinking about how more than one person made the observation that my horse looks like she retains some sole, so maybe she won’t be a good barefoot performance candidate in the long run if her soles are truly thin. I probably won’t know the answer for about a year. But I’m going to keep looking til I find the right trimmer and try and restore some form and function to that foot over the next 6 mos to a year before I make that call. (And if my scatterbrained vet would ever get me my x-rays emailed, I would be able to schedule my consult with Stephen O’Grady!!) If and when we need shoes, I’d like to try some of the new composites that are out, so I can protect the foot without compromising the natural expansion and shock absorption process that I’m currently trying to rebuild.

My husband doesn’t know it yet, but I’ve got a Theraplate coming tomorrow Hoping that will help the circulation without having to force all the walking and risk a foot bruise. She’s moving pretty good in her paddock though- a little choppy on the packed dirt, but almost 100% sound on grass. And it will only get better!!

I’d just like to thank all the COTH contributors for all your insight, opinions and especially those of you that were positive and encouraging rather than disparaging.It was a little hard not to take it to heart when people left negative one-sentence remarks that I am not doing everything 100% correct, without offering any kind of positive solution. But regardless, I’m climbing the learning curve and know WAY more than I did a few weeks ago. Thanks again, everyone- especially JB and heronponie who gave me some very personal and detailed responses via PM.

[Mosey_2003]

It’s a journey :yes:

[BoyleHeightsKid]

Please keep us updated on her progress so that we can all give you a high five when your mare is sound

[S1969]

[QUOTE=JB;8331257]
IME, if a competent farrier/trimmer shows a thoughtful owner how to take a few swipes to the heels every 2-3 days, that can speed things along. It’s not reasonable to have the trimmer out 2-3 times a week just to go swipe-swipe. This is less about “additional trimming”, as it is about just constant minor corrective actions, which heels like this might need for maybe a few full trim cycles.

It certainly made a huge difference for my horse coming out of shoes. That was my first introduction to using the rasp. That part is really pretty easy :)[/QUOTE]

OK this is a totally different thing though - if my farrier showed me how to do it on my horse, with his “blessing” as part of his overall plan for my horse’s feet – then yes. But if I told him that “someone on COTH told me to rasp down the heels in between trims so I have been doing that in between his visits” - I think he’d kill me.

I love the idea that owners are willing to learn - and my farrier is great about showing me things and helping me learn - but I think owners need to always work WITH their farriers. If you are trying to learn via internet so you can tell your farriers how to trim your horse…you need someone else.

I do feel bad for people that cannot get decent (affordable) farriers…but unless they are truly unavailable I don’t think self instruction via the internet is the solution.

[heronponie]

I am curious how many people commenting here have trimmed a horse to success with issues like these?

I ask because there are a few recommendations that, IME, work well in theory but not so much in practice. If anyone has had success with them and is willing to share, I’d love to see. Always open to learning!

[Mosey_2003]

My TB had feet that wanted to run forward after I used a bad trimmer for a few rounds. I got him back in shape by backing his toe and heels a little every week with a new farrier doing the grunt work every 4-5 weeks. Granted, he wasn’t as far along as this one, but he was definitely underrun. Small adjustments done frequently seem to work really well.

[JB]

[QUOTE=heronponie;8332912]

I ask because there are a few recommendations that, IME, work well in theory but not so much in practice.[/QUOTE]

I’m curious which ones?

I have worked on a few horses with feet like this, including my own (as one of my first trimming experiences!) and it worked. I think if I had known how to properly do a rocker back then, things would have progressed much faster in regards to the toes.

There are certainly ways to do this badly - trimming toe from the bottom (bad, farrier already did this, makes the horse sore), shortening toes but not addressing heels (also bad, as it just dumps more weight onto already sore heels, already done here). It’s even “bad” if you do all the right trimming, but end up weighting the back of the foot more than the back of the foot can handle, and don’t use any orthotics to make the horse comfortable.

[heronponie]

I’m not really looking for examples of bad trimming, I’m more interested to see if anyone would be willing to share some examples of horses who were successfully helped with whatever method or style of trimming has been promoted. There are many roads to Rome.

Of course, no one has to share if they don’t want to.

[JB]

I’m just interested in what has been suggested that you feel doesn’t work in practice, only theory.

[stb]

I bought a horse once who had feet that were flat as a pancake, with run forward heels, long toes, and a prominent dish on one front foot. With correct trimming from my farrier, the horse had quite nice feet with in about six months. He did a great job.

Interestingly, I sold that horse and bought another horse who had long toes, contracted heels that were run forward, but a somewhat more upright natural hoof. That same farrier worked on that horse for six months, with very little improvement in the hoof at all. Very frustrating. I switched to a natural trimmer, and within 3 months my horse’s hoofs were dramatically improved. Better balance, shorter toe, heels backed up, really nice concavity of the sole, and heels are spreading out.

I’m not sure what happened with the farrier between horses #1 and #2, but I’m glad I listened to my gut and made a switch. Also, said farrier was also supposed to be “the best” according to just about everyone, including vets.

[bathsheba8542]

I just had my consultation with Dr. O’Grady. WOW. World of difference. I hope you find the same results. He is an incredible resource.

[Pehsness]

I corrected many feet like this when I was actively trimming for others. I never took my education to learning the application of shoes, though I do notice many of my colleagues who are still trimming full time are now doing so (and good for them - always be open to learning).

I found there were no special techniques that worked. The only technique that worked consistently was frequent trimming to a balanced foot. You could never let the toe get ahead - even a few mm - because then you stalled progress exponentially. Small things like a good bevel/rocker helped with this, but if the trims were frequent enough (and most importantly - balanced) then even that wasn’t wholly necessary.

My client base was your average adult amateur. All disciplines. Even stalled horses made reasonable progress if the trims were regular and balanced. Of course they made quicker progress living outside, but still, progress was made. I always encouraged owner engagement whenever possible because just a few swipes of the raps on a weekly basis often made a world of difference.

I also learned that not everyone has the eye to trim for balance, including many farriers. Hence the problems that get out of control.

[ohmissbrittany]

This isn’t a successful update, but a mildly interesting one.

http://m.imgur.com/a/8YhDk

Here are pictures from before I moved here and changed farriers. It really struck me and gave me hope because we aren’t undoing more than maybe 1.5 yrs of damage. I got a little angry because both farrier and vet seemed to think there was no fix… But there was a time in the not-so-distant past that her heels were not crushed, and if anything, were too high!

[amastrike]

Any progress, OP?

[froglander]

[QUOTE=amastrike;8355203]
Any progress, OP?[/QUOTE]

I was wondering the same thing

[ohmissbrittany]

YES! It’s subtle but it’s there! Caudal mass is rebuilding, the collateral cartilages are pushing back out of the foot, and her heels are starting to stand back up!

Here is a new album from earlier this week: http://imgur.com/a/LLBGG

She just had her second trim last week, and was trotting around the arena like a dressage horse, toe flicking and all, yesterday. I think I feel comfortable going back to riding, walking in straight lines to start off with. I found a super knowledgable trimmer who does a lot of “transition” cases, and she’s been a godsend. I felt even better when my mare’s chiro (who is also a vet and silver medalist in dressage) recommended this same trimmer.

It sucked watching her gimp around for a month, and I was wrapping with either easycare pads or magic cushion daily which was a pain in the ass (boots aren’t made to fit a 6" long by 5" wide atrophied foot I discovered!) but she’s almost back to being totally sound on most surfaces.

[ohmissbrittany]

Third update: http://imgur.com/a/JkjFm

New trim, and I did a White Lightning treatment. She puked off ridiculous amounts of retained sole and even impressively disgusting amounts of dead frog tissue. Walking sounder, looking better, growing ridiculously fast (she needed this trim at 3 weeks because there was almost a full centimeter of wall sticking out!) The Theraplate is magical.

[BoyleHeightsKid]

It’s great to hear your mare is feeling better! There’s still work to be done but overall YAY!!!

[Mosey_2003]

Better :yes:

Couple areas I’d do a little more to, but on the right path at least.

How is she feeling overall?

[JB]

Yay for improvement! The frog puked off made me :lol: :lol:

I’m curious why the heels of the LF are still so underrun?

Really nice concavity going on there!