Update: does this fit ME? Thornhill 24K Event Saddle - gullet plates?

[fivestrideline]

I almost put this in eventing but

Does anyone know what gullet plates a 2013 Thornhill 24K Pro Trainer “Event” saddle would take? I took a used one out on trial and I don’t see a serial to contact the manufacturer. It also appears that Intrepid may own the brand, though I thought at one point Thornhill was its own company. Not sure when that may have happened or if I’m just misinformed.

I also vaguely remember the Thornhills taking Pessoa plates, but now all I can find are the Intrepid plates when I google. Which honestly look a whole lot like Pessoa’s lol. The tack shop isn’t super familiar, and I can ask my fitter to the tune of $200 . I’m just hoping someone already knows!

[Live_Wire]

You are correct. They utilize the XChange gullet system which is what Pessoa and Ovation use.

https://windswepthorse.com/Pessoa-Pro-Trainer-24K-X-Changable-Gullet-Plates_p_324.html

[fivestrideline]

Thank you! I should’ve just PM’d you but I didn’t want to bother

(PS it’s a GORGEOUS saddle!)

[lenapesadie]

I don’t know anything about the gullet plates or that particular Thornhill. But! I bought a Germania 2 phase used for my horse as a youngster, rode comfortably in it for a couple of years and then resold it for dang near what I paid for it after horse outgrew it. It was a good saddle. It was affordable. And I would buy one again if the need arose.

[fivestrideline]

I had a 2 Phase on a hoop tree for my barrel with legs and I liked it, except for the reddish leather got it used though, so it worked for what I needed.

This one is much prettier and also for a youngster

[Live_Wire]

Never a bother! I’m glad you like it! I’m telling you, I’m taking mine to my grave

[fivestrideline]

Fingers crossed it fits - my XCH Pessoa got a provisional okay but it’s a foam panel, so I’m hoping this saddle will work and have the extra support of the flocking! Bonus if I can just swap plates with the Pessoa and be on our way

[lenapesadie]

Yes! I had the hoop ish tree with wither gussets for my guy! He goes in a Duett now (and no longer needs the wither gussets).

I don’t recall ever thinking mine looked red, but tbh I was just delighted to have something that fit him in the well under 1k price point.

I hope the 24k works perfectly for your guy!

[fivestrideline]

Alright, help a very out of shape girl out

How does this saddle look to fit ME? I can work with “good enough”, as it fits him pretty well, but I’m out of shape and can’t go wtc to really test this out. Horse is standing on mostly flat ground and I have my weight in my heels here. My worry is that it’s going to tip me forward a bit. I’m used to super straight flaps and longer than ideal stirrups because that’s my default when I get complacent lol!

[SonnysMom]

I am not loving the fit for you. You are right at the front edge of the flap and don’t have a lot of room behind your butt.
You state your weight is in your heels but if your heels were down more that may change the angle of your knee enough to not have you at the front edge of the flap. Your foot appears to be fairly level.

[fivestrideline]

I have about a hand’s width behind me in the saddle, 4 fingers plus almost the thumb. The sweatshirt may be deceiving .

You’re probably right about the heels - I could likely get more weight into them. I certainly wasn’t shoving them down, and they definitely go down more in motion. In my defense my hamstrings are quite tight right now due to not riding .

Also, this is a saddle that just has to be a decent balance for me - theoretically this horse is a project but knowing me I’ll get him going and buy us a “permanent” saddle that fits me properly. I’m worried about the whole picture, but for a $1k budget I know I have to compromise somewhere

[Annie10]

Out of curiosity can I ask you where you found that saddle? It looks just like one I had . Does it have Dee rings on both sides?

[IPEsq]

Seat looks good enough. Flap isn’t doing you any favors though.

[fivestrideline]

@Annie10

Does it have Dee rings on both sides?

Just one side. Got it from Colorado I think.

@IPEsq

Flap isn’t doing you any favors though.

Yeah… I’m deciding whether that’s a deal breaker or not. Thanks!

[fivestrideline]

Updating this just to say - I love this saddle! Yeah, the flap doesn’t fit me but my leg is SOLID and I can hold a two point until my muscles give out where I previously had to fight to stay balanced. Turns out I still have my equitation skills, I just didn’t have a well balanced saddle . I also have a fused ankle and typically am fiddling with my right leg and foot + fighting to make sure I’m not collapsing over my hip. Most of that has gone away with this saddle plus some compositi wide bed stirrups.

I’m aware that the 4 year old is likely to change shape and throw the balance off at some point, but for now I’m thrilled. I’ll definitely suggest this saddle to anyone in a similar situation!

[mika0116]

@fivestrideline… While I don’t love the flap for you - you look like your have similar leg proportions to me - but I am like you’re 20 lb+ leg twin (size 2/4 top and a MUSCULAR 6 bottom). You appear to have a relatively long thigh.

I understand it is REALLY hard to find a non-custom, non-new saddle with the “right” flap configuration for our leg proportions. My current ancient PJ Original (before they stopped making them) is just a tad short/ not quite right in the flap, but it’s good enough, for now.

Not to thread hijack - but you mentioned a fused ankle. I just confirmed from MRI and CT that I have an congenital defect in my right talus bone (ankle joint). I’m 33 and had NO IDEA that my fibula is incorrectly touching my heel bone - where my talus should be LOL. I’d love to know more about your fused ankle & how it impacts your riding.

I’ve ridden for now over 20 years (ran marathons, even did an ultra, squatted heavy despite uneven dorsal flexion) without knowing - but had some recent arthritic changes that lead to official diagnosis & lots of PT.

Could you tell me more about your fusion and how you work (ride) around it?

[fivestrideline]

@mika0116

Could you tell me more about your fusion and how you work (ride) around it?

No known arthritis (yet, anyway) for me, so YMMV. My fusion just means that foot cannot flex as much as the other - in fact my heels just don’t go down much at all. Slightly more flexed than flat is about as good as it gets at a standstill otherwise it’s more like bracing. My ankle just doesn’t bend!

This means I almost always feel like my right stirrup is shorter, and I tend to collapse a hip (it changes as far as which one). It travels up my lower body so I have a bit of a “swing” to my posting if I’m out of shape and will tend to sit on the left side of the seat.

I’ve realized since riding in this saddle that I was probably fighting pretty bad with my other one that fits this horse. My TC is less of a problem, but it doesn’t fit this one. Doesn’t make much sense as his other saddle looks fine and the flap fits better but .

Honestly if I focused more on mobility and strength out of the saddle I think I could overcome this in whatever I needed to ride in - it’s just remarkable the difference THIS saddle has made!

[mika0116]

Oh if you don’t mind I meant a little more specific @fivestrideline - just an FYI - if you core diagnosis is not SKELETAL - you could see improvement via PT, but if your diagnosis is SKELETAL… like mine… you will never see improvement as anything besides surgery / bone replacement a la Tiger Wood’s replacement of his talus would only strengthen the soft tissue and not increase ROM (range of motion) and overall functionality.

When you say fused - it is MEDICALLY fused via surgery aka ankle arthrodesis, which is a surgical procedure that joins the three bones of the ankle joint (talus, tibia, and fibula) into one bone using screws or plates. Or are you just saying that term casually to explain something undiagnosed and a lack of dorsal flexion?

My dorsal flexion is 12 (normal range) on my left ankle and 4 after 9 months+ of 3x per week PT with a practice that works on the US Olympic swim team and some MLB players (it was 1 when I first arrived at PT)

This is what lead to my diagnosis via Xray, MRI and CT of which displayed I am basically MISSING my talus bone due to congenital genetic defect. My dorsal flexion will never improve as it is medically impossible without highly invasive surgery replacing via 3D printed cobalt total talus bone replacement. At which I may not gain significant ROM or flexion - they said max improvement would be a few degrees.

My “zebra” factor is pretty high - so I am incredibly curious / excited to meet someone with a similar if not the same diagnosis…

I ran marathons and ultras in my 20s - but retired from running. My ankle only really bothers me if I am riding 3+ horses in a single day or if I am riding in a more eventer style seat with my leg slightly kicked out in front of me while riding out in fields. But it does sometimes just get sore / numb.

Does that make sense? Hope this is helpful maybe in your journey as no amount of strength / mobility / PT will “fix” something skeletal. Highly encourage skeletal imaging before going down the route of years of on and off PT.

[fivestrideline]

AFAIK my fusion is injury related - it can be improved with targeted work but it’ll never be normal again. Both ankles have scarring and soft tissue thickening, but the one has a lot more going on and is “fused” in the sense of healed injuries to bone and soft tissue permanently reducing mobility.

What happens for me is when I let my stretching and strengthening work slide, I start compensating. More than that, I’m sensitive to saddle balance specifically stirrup bar placement. It just took finding something that is balanced for me and the horse to go “oh yeah I DO know how to ride”

[mika0116]

I see - anything fixable or just something that you now need to work with via strength and mobility?

Also what’s your delta in dorsal flexion left to right? As bad as mine of 12-4 = 8 degrees, which is a medically huge difference and I just thought for 30 years everyone has a side that feels “less awesome”.

Asking because I am unsure how one approaches such a difference in functionality side to side. What stirrup bar placement works best for your delta between left and right?

My ortho surgeon about fell over when she saw my LD running race records - she was like “I am referring you to neuro because your pain tolerance must be off the charts” when I mentioned I only occasionally take Tylenol maybe 2x a year when I have the flu.