*UPDATE* New here- & a NEW horse with an issue...

[Mud]

I didn’t see where else this would fit, so I hope this spot is right.

Hello, I am new here for one. Been looking for issues that I am dealing with and came across this site & decided to join since I am in need of some help/advice.
First I’ll start with my background:
I have been around horses pretty much my entire life. Grew up in a saddle. Broke/trained a few in my younger years, seen all kinds of issues. Use to be the type that would ride any horse I laid my eyes upon & the bigger the better. Then in 2003 I had a pretty bad horse accident… out with a green horse with an even greener rider, that horse spooked and banged up against mine (16.3hh)… he jumped and reared. Luckily his jumping pushed me far enough out and away from him so he didn’t land on me. But my body hit the pavement HARD! My head bounced off the pavement like a basketball (no helmet) instant whiplash and blacked out for a bit. Well the following year my dad passed, so I needed to sell my horse.
So I shied away from horses for awhile, well big ones at least had a few mini’s since.

And this brings us to the present: The fear is still there some but the horse riding itch has bitten me hard the past couple of years, so I have been casually looking. Up until yesterday (though I still have 1 mini)… brought home a 12hh drafty pony (she looks like Haflinger) - just my size, not as far to fall.
The guy I got her from said she had been used in a team on a wagon but hasn’t had much riding. He said his little girls have ridden her, but they prefer the big horses. He said he’s even rode her and that she just doesn’t know much. Ok, fine with me I can handle that.
He brought her here and had a huge halter/lead rope combo on her and I didn’t have a halter big enough to fit her (just mini halters). So he took the halter off and let her loose in my field. And said she would come to treats and feed… ok, that’s fine or so I thought.

Well yesterday (I had no treats) I tried to catch her to no avail. Even with feed, she’d get close enough to barely sniff it and that’s it. I followed her around the pasture for hours, trying to make her realize it would just be easier and less work for her to come to me instead of moving away.
So today I went and got treats & she has came up and taken them from my hand and has let me pet her some on her face and a couple times on her upper neck but that’s it.
Then introduce the sight of a halter or rope and she won’t even get near. Even if it’s just draped around my neck or shoulder. Let alone trying to sneak it over her head.
I have spent hours each day trying.
Today I left her on a positive note- her letting me rub her face all the way up to her forelock and a little bit of her upper neck, gave a treat, said “good girl” and walked away.

I just want to at least get a halter on her so I can catch her when I want and start working with her. If she would’ve had a halter on today I would’ve been able to catch her by the noseband or even the side strap.

I’ve never had a horse I couldn’t catch, every one I have ever had would catch me. So I have never dealt with this issue before.
And I have no smaller pen or place to put her in, so that makes it even harder.

Am I approaching this right?
Or is there something else I should be doing?

TIA

[Kwill]

Welcome to COTH! There’s another thread on Parker the Pony that has some of these issues addressed, you could check that out.

Following her around without getting the join up isn’t going to do much. I think others could help more with this than I could, though. I haven’t had to deal with this issue but in theory coming to you should mean great things.

[cloudy18]

You can temporarily put a halter on, with a breakaway piece on it. However, you are still going to have to work with her to be catchable, or she will just stay farther away. Continue going out just to scratch her, give her treats. When you can catch her bring her up just for the same, and grooming. Once you start working with her, occasionally go out to get her and just let her go after giving her attention. Keep it random, so your presence doesn’t always mean work. Oh, bring the halter out every time, with no intention of catching her. If she does let you pet her, leave it at that. You don’t want to bring the halter out only when you are going to catch her.

Will she follow the mini in?

And please, wear a helmet. And be prepared to start with the basics with this horse. Hopefully she has a decent work ethic from her driving work so you don’t have to fight a lazy attitude.

[Kwill]

The guy I got her from said she had been used in a team on a wagon but hasn’t had much riding. He said his little girls have ridden her, but they prefer the big horses. He said he’s even rode her and that she just doesn’t know much.

So I take it from this that you never saw her worked or being ridden, or perhaps a video of her under any kind of tack?

Anyway, I agree you should treat this mare like she knows nothing and start from scratch. There’s a good chance the seller wasn’t telling you the truth. It happens, but you might get a good horse out of it yet.

[Mud]

She follows the mini around and won’t go far away from the mini so I have been tying the mini up just to keep her from running farther away (because mini will eventually follow). But no smaller place to take her to, smallest place is about an acre and that’s where I have been working in.
I haven’t been able to get a halter or rope on her at all. If they (a halter or a rope) get close to her face she moves away from me and she’s done dealing with me for awhile.

[Mud]

[QUOTE=Kwill;8627708]
So I take it from this that you never saw her worked or being ridden, or perhaps a video of her under any kind of tack?

Anyway, I agree you should treat this mare like she knows nothing and start from scratch. There’s a good chance the seller wasn’t telling you the truth. It happens, but you might get a good horse out of it yet.[/QUOTE]

He sent pictures of his nephew (probably 10y/o) on the mare tacked up & no one holding a lead rope. No video. And was a bit too far to drive to check her out in person.
I had planned on starting her from scratch, since she was just a wagon horse mainly before. Now more-so after dealing with this whole catching issue.

[Mud]

double post

[Kwill]

Maybe just go out to the pasture and read a book, or play on your phone, so she comes up to you? Horses are curious. You might at least get her desensitized to you this way. Sounds like a big project!

[Mud]

[QUOTE=Kwill;8627721]
Maybe just go out to the pasture and read a book, or play on your phone, so she comes up to you? Horses are curious. You might at least get her desensitized to you this way. Sounds like a big project![/QUOTE]

Have also been out there checking fence, just sitting in the field, cutting down small tree’s, etc.
Yeah, she definitely will be. Wasn’t really wanting a huge project but between my budget & how hard it is to find a short stocky pony I figured if that turned out to be the case I could do it… but the whole “can’t catch” thing has thrown me off, definitely wasn’t expecting that.

[Frog_Pond]

[QUOTE=Kwill;8627708]

Anyway, I agree you should treat this mare like she knows nothing and start from scratch. There’s a good chance the seller wasn’t telling you the truth. It happens, but you might get a good horse out of it yet.[/QUOTE]
^^Yup! It amazes me how many people misrepresent driving horses as saddle broke when in fact, they’e just nice horses who don’t buck or bolt when you surprise them by climbing aboard. I’ve sat on a handful of Standardbreds & Haffies who were good eggs, but not at all trained for riding. There’s a huuuuge difference between ‘lets you sit there’ and green broke. Your seller sounds like one of those, ahh, confused/liar-ish types. (My current horse is one of these, and he’s turned out great – a giant sweetie pie, so there’s hope, always!)

But, yeah, start from scratch, for your safety and to build some trust between you. If she knows more than she’s letting on, she’ll let you know :).

[Highflyer]

Rather than trying to put the halter on her, I would start by trying to get a leadrope draped over her neck. I’ve had good luck with using the lightweight cotton ones-- keep it balled up in one hand and wait until her nose is in a bucket of treats and then gently rub the rope hand up and down her crest until you can very carefully drape it over neck and snap it to itself. Most of the time they give up at this point and let you put the halter on. And definitely leave a (breakaway) one on.

But given how green she sounds, I think you would do well to make some kind of enclosure, even if you just get 4-5 round pen panels and make a “stall” you can use to feed her and tack her up in. (Ideally you would get enough to make a round pen you can ride in the first few times.) My guess is she probably isn’t really used to leg and may not turn very well either so a small enclosure would help a lot.

[nu2u]

Make nice, halter, lead, groom, release whatever makes mini happy mini rather than tie it up. Let her see mini actually had a pretty good time with you and survived then she may feel more like joining the party.

[Cindyg]

An idea for catching her: Buy yourself a pair of these gloves. Then, don’t just carry treats in your pocket; carry a bit of feed in a bucket that you can rattle. (Learned this from Animal Control.)

When she comes over to get the feed from the bucket, scratch her with the gloves. She may shy away from you at first, but she’ll be back. Don’t try to catch her. Just scratch her. Or scratch the mini.

When she’s coming reliably, drop the bucket and continue the scratching.

Then, when she’s coming reliably for scratches without the bucket, throw a lead rope over her neck, but still don’t try to catch her.

When she has accepted your tossing the leadrope, you’re ready to catch her.

[Mud]

I had tried the whole “play with the mini”, “just mess with the mini”, “put lead rope on mini and lead her around” & “lightly throwing the rope all over the mini”… she just stood back and watched.
But I also think the mini might be giving her subtle cues to stay back.
Most of the time the mini will follow me around anyways without being on lead anyways.

I’ve tried feed in a bucket and she just got close enough to barely sniff it and walked away, tried multiple times. She eventually wouldn’t come up to it anymore. Tried it in my hand as well, and she sniffed it and moved away.
Did that with lettuce too and same thing.

She’s a tough nut to crack that’s for sure!

And Cindyg I seen your sig and realized I follow your Oden page lol.

[Bluey]

Welcome to these forums, the right place for advice about horses.
Advice you may get, from all directions.
You then have to choose what will work best for you, since we don’t really know, not being right there.

I would say there are several lessons to work thru here.
Lesson #1, when getting a new horse, don’t turn it out until you know you can catch it.
Put new horse somewhere it has company and you can handle it.
If a new horse gets spooked and hurt, how would we handle that, if we had turned it out right off and the horse didn’t know us and we the horse?

Lesson #2, once in that pickle, if we are having problems, asking as you are doing here is a great way to get some ideas.
Did you look at the “Parker hard to catch” story yet for some ideas?

http://www.chronofhorse.com/forum/showthread.php?488595-PHOTOS-at-67-Parker-s-Hard-to-Catch-Behavior

The trouble with any internet advice, what we read and what we understand and can apply is not always the same.
We truly need “experienced eyes on the ground” directing us.
Is there some reputable trainer that could help you at least get your hands on the pony and evaluate what you have there?
That would help you and the pony tremendously to get a better start, without confusing both of you.

Think about this as learning a new discipline, how to start and manage these kinds of situations.

The beauty of professional help is that we learn from them and then we have acquired skills that we can use on any horse for the rest of our lives.
If we try to learn by reinventing the wheel, we may get it done or not and with more stress for all.

You seem to be very patient and kind not pushing the pony and taking your time and looking for advice.
Those are excellent traits in a good horseman.

All of us have at some time or another been there, had to call in the troops and learned from it.
Now go find someone that can help you with the skills necessary to catch and train your pony.

[Mud]

[QUOTE=Bluey;8628549]
Welcome to these forums, the right place for advice about horses.
Advice you may get, from all directions, you then have to choose what will work best for you, since we don’t really know, not being right there.

I would say there are several lessons to work thru here.
Lesson #1, when getting a new horse, don’t turn it out until you know you can catch it.
Put new horse somewhere it has company and you can handle it.
If a new horse gets spooked and hurt, how would we handle that, if we had turned it out right off and the horse didn’t know us and we the horse?

Lesson #2, once in that pickle, if we are having problems, asking as you are doing here is a great way to get some ideas.
Did you look at the “Parker hard to catch” story yet for some ideas?

The trouble with any internet advice, what we read and what we understand and can apply is not always the same.
We truly need “experienced eyes on the ground” directing us.
Is there some reputable trainer that could help you at least get your hands on the pony and evaluate what you have there?
That would help you and the pony tremendously to get a better start, without confusing both of you.

Think about this as learning a new discipline, how to start and manage these kinds of situations.

The beauty of professional help is that we learn from them and then we have acquired skills that we can use on any horse for the rest of our lives.
If we try to learn by reinventing the wheel, we may get it done or not and with more stress for all.

You seem to be very patient and kind not pushing the pony and taking your time and looking for advice.
Those are excellent traits in a good horseman.

All of us have at some time or another been there, had to call in the troops and learned from it.
Now go find someone that can help you with the skills necessary to catch and train your pony.[/QUOTE]

Thanks.
Sadly no trainers around here. I am sure what trainers there might be in Arkansas are in the bigger cities. I am out in the sticks lol and no where near any of those bigger cities that might have trainers.
I wish I would’ve had a smaller space to put her in from the beginning. Smallest I’ve got (& that’s what she is in) is a 1 acre lot.

I did check out the Parker post, read it all. But he was a bit different case than mine. He was already friendly (albeit to certain people) and they had a small area to work with him in.
I have also read quite a few articles online & tried some of their techniques as well (read quite a few and can’t remember them. Think 1 was a Monty Roberts article). But most pertain to horses who are already trained but just hard to catch.
Have even searched and read on How to catch a Wild horse. Since that is closer to what I am dealing with. But not much help.
She just doesn’t seem as curious as most people say horses are (no matter their training).

[pAin_t_Misbehavin]

I would call the seller, tell him I want a refund, and he can come get his pony.

If you’re just getting back into riding, a short draft mare who doesn’t know much is not the place to start. Ask me how I know this. I have been where you are. Cut your losses and move on.

You say yourself you are not looking for a project, have some fear issues, and no access to a trainer. My advice is to get a nice semi-retired gelding, even if there are some soundness issues. That’s why God made previcox and pentosan and Adequan - for those of us who need a nice older gentleman to get us back into the swing of things.

I find short horses to be much harder to ride - their little legs and short bodies make for choppy gaits, in general. Also I’d advise steering clear of drafts, who tend to be the take-charge type and will take advantage if allowed. Finally, I prefer not dealing with anyone else’s hormones if I don’t have to and so would, in your place, be looking for a gelding.

I always say quarter horses are proof that God loves us. Got to be plenty of those where you are, right?

[mountainhorse]

paint (above poster), has very sound advice for your situation.

[Mud]

Yeah this is QH country. But I’ve been there, done that. The horse I had my accident on was a well trained QH gelding.
I have always gotten along with mares and prefer them, as in the past they have been some of the best mounts I have had.
I wasn’t really wanting a project but knew my budget wouldn’t allow for much of anything else. So I wasn’t ruling out a project, I know how to train from nothing.
I was sent a mare years back that was a basket-case, she had been tormented by the owners boy. He’d chase her on the ATV’s, shoot BB guns at her, etc.
She knew nothing other than how to lead. They even had to hog-tie her to get her into the trailer to bring her to me.
She had loads of issues. I trained her and fell in love with that mare. When it was getting close to time for her to go back I called them and told them I wanted her. So they sold her to me… by far 1 of the best horses I ever had.
One day I wanted to ride her in a parade (she never been around a crowd or anything like that), a friend showed up with his trailer and hour early (since I didn’t have 1) because he had heard about her one & only loading experience.
It literally took a 2 finger tug on her halter towards the trailer and she loaded right up. He was in shock. I didn’t doubt her.
And no issues at the parade either, other than her out pacing all the others. We would’ve been at the front of the parade if it was left up to her :lol: (here horses are always at the end of the parades).

UPDATE:
I just went out to work with her for a little bit (it’s raining here). She came up from her hay to the gate. I had treats with me.
I forgot to mention yesterday a few times I had my lead rope looped and hanging from my wrist to let her see it as she took treats after each pet & rub.
She didn’t like it too much & if it moved any closer she would back away.
Well anyways back to today’s mini-session (I say mini-session, because I was out there less than an hour).
I draped the looped halter over my hand, not my wrist this time. I tried a few times to use my other hand to rub on her with the side of the lead rope loop in that hand, she would back away (just 1 step). So I would quit, back up a couple steps myself & have her come towards me again. I would scratch further up into the forelock with the looped lead rope hanging touching her face lightly. And then I started rubbing on her neck some more to see how far she’d let me go, she was letting me rub & scratch her (just for short times each) lower on her neck. And the next time I went to scratch & rub in her forelock, I slowly grabbed the looped lead rope and draped it on her neck. She just stood there.
I was astonished. I praised her, rubbed and scratched on her and gave her a treat. I then lead her to the gate where I had her new halter hanging.
I put it on her with absolutely no fuss & she just stood there letting me adjust it. I praised her some more, rubbed and scratched & of course gave her another treat.
I led her around, whoa’d her a couple times, praising and scratching each time.
Then took the lead rope off her, praised her & scratched on her & gave her a treat and left.
She is really a sweet little horse.
Still need to come up with a name for her though :lol:

[Bluey]

[QUOTE=Mud;8628745]
Yeah this is QH country. But I’ve been there, done that. The horse I had my accident on was a well trained QH gelding.
I have always gotten along with mares and prefer them, as in the past they have been some of the best mounts I have had.
I wasn’t really wanting a project but knew my budget wouldn’t allow for much of anything else. So I wasn’t ruling out a project, I know how to train from nothing.
I was sent a mare years back that was a basket-case, she had been tormented by the owners boy. He’d chase her on the ATV’s, shoot BB guns at her, etc.
She knew nothing other than how to lead. They even had to hog-tie her to get her into the trailer to bring her to me.
She had loads of issues. I trained her and fell in love with that mare. When it was getting close to time for her to go back I called them and told them I wanted her. So they sold her to me… by far 1 of the best horses I ever had.
One day I wanted to ride her in a parade (she never been around a crowd or anything like that), a friend showed up with his trailer and hour early (since I didn’t have 1) because he had heard about her one & only loading experience.
It literally took a 2 finger tug on her halter towards the trailer and she loaded right up. He was in shock. I didn’t doubt her.
And no issues at the parade either, other than her out pacing all the others. We would’ve been at the front of the parade if it was left up to her :lol: (here horses are always at the end of the parades).

UPDATE:
I just went out to work with her for a little bit (it’s raining here). She came up from her hay to the gate. I had treats with me.
I forgot to mention yesterday a few times I had my lead rope looped and hanging from my wrist to let her see it as she took treats after each pet & rub.
She didn’t like it too much & if it moved any closer she would back away.
Well anyways back to today’s mini-session (I say mini-session, because I was out there less than an hour).
I draped the looped halter over my hand, not my wrist this time. I tried a few times to use my other hand to rub on her with the side of the lead rope loop in that hand, she would back away (just 1 step). So I would quit, back up a couple steps myself & have her come towards me again. I would scratch further up into the forelock with the looped lead rope hanging touching her face lightly. And then I started rubbing on her neck some more to see how far she’d let me go, she was letting me rub & scratch her (just for short times each) lower on her neck. And the next time I went to scratch & rub in her forelock, I slowly grabbed the looped lead rope and draped it on her neck. She just stood there.
I was astonished. I praised her, rubbed and scratched on her and gave her a treat. I then lead her to the gate where I had her new halter hanging.
I put it on her with absolutely no fuss & she just stood there letting me adjust it. I praised her some more, rubbed and scratched & of course gave her another treat.
I led her around, whoa’d her a couple times, praising and scratching each time.
Then took the lead rope off her, praised her & scratched on her & gave her a treat and left.
She is really a sweet little horse.
Still need to come up with a name for her though :lol:[/QUOTE]

Well, great, if she does the same tomorrow and every day after, problem solved by the horse herself, how nice of her.

Maybe she has been handled more than it seemed at first and you can go right on with her now.

No help on the name, but pictures could help find one for her …