UPDATE on Update..I wish this was still about horrible allergies and Zyrtec

[TrotTrotPumpkn]

Last fall my young Doberman developed allergies. Nothing changed in his life, except around that time we dug a waterline and it got dry/colder outside. I kept hoping they were seasonal and would go away. They didn’t. I have tried:

Benadryl consistently
Tried a humidifier (did nothing)
Oatmeal/hotspot medicated rinses
Elizabethan collar at times
He’s on a grain free, low ingredient food. I have tried many different protein sources for about 3-4 months at a time and also RAW (I don’t think it is food related fwiw). I quit using his normal treats too.
I don’t think fleas either. He’s on a preventative as are all household animals and I see no signs.

I broke down a couple weeks ago and got him on steroids. I do NOT want to keep him on steroids if we can avoid it. He got so bad we just needed to do something ASAP. His coat has gotten thin and looks like crap, he was scratching and chewing himself bloody and won’t leave his docked tail alone either (long since healed–he’s almost 2–but he’s chewing everything). He’s scratching everything, ears, neck, you name it. Chews sides, hips, tail. I had a spaniel once with allergies and she chewed her feet. He doesn’t really chew his feet.

Started 20 mg a day Predinsolone (sp?) for 3 days, then 1/2 dose and then tried every other day. Every other day is useless and he flared. Went back to half dose and he seems to be struggling on that now–not working. Do we go back to the full dose and then re-taper? The full dose worked. 80lb dog.

Vet is suggesting they have had good luck with blood testing. Was $250 as opposed to $500 for pin prick test. I don’t know a lot about this, so I’m hoping for some input. I don’t want to just spend money (you wouldn’t believe how much I have spent at the vet. It’s mind boggling considering no accidents/injuries). And what do I do if he is allergic to grass or air (jk) or something unaviodable??

Also, what about Zyrtec? I saw this on a search. I assume not the D. What dose for an 80lb dog?

It’s been one thing after another with this dog. He’s had many urinary/kidney/prostate things and I’m wondering if all the antibiotics are an underlying culprit or a contributor? Although the timing doesn’t match. He’s been antibiotic free since he got neutered a few months ago. Small victory.

Sigh

At least my rescue Doberman has been healthy (well until getting cancer at age 10). He’s got a cast iron stomach, and no allergies either, fwiw nor does any of my other animals indoor or outside–just this guy.

[pezk]

Questions - is this a blue dobe?
Do you live where there are foxes?
Do you have a board certified canine dermatologist anywhere near you?

[Foxtrot_s]

My white Bull Terrier has been a saga. He is on Prednisone, but it is only half the story. Tried upping the dose, did not work, so to limit the bad sie effects cut his dose down again.

Currently he is shampooed Mon/Wed/Friday with a shampoo with ketaconozole and acetic acid in it (Mal-a-Ket from Entirely Pets)…seem to be working,for now, touch wood.

I do believe these allergies are environmental, although my dog is also on grain-free, limited ingredient food, too.

He is old and we limit the time he is on the lawn or in the sun.

Frustrating.

[S1969]

You don’t mention a scrape to test for demodectic mange. Did the vet do that? If not, I’d definitely do that and see if your dog has demodex. Steroids might help; I can’t remember the treatment for generalized mange.

[Marshfield]

You can ask for a referral to a dermatologist. I have seen dogs do very well when put on allergy serum to help reduce sensitivities.

If you can find anybody who has Apoquel available to prescribe, that’s supposed to work miracles. Different kind of medication than anything else out there. Here’s the catch–supposedly affordable, but in incredibly short supply. I cannot buy it for clients, the only folks who can are the ones who bought in to it when launched about two years ago. And they’re rationed, and only supposed to supply pre-existing customers. I refer to it as the tooth fairy drug, I’ve heard of it, but I’m not sure it’s real.

Dust mites are a common allergen in tested dogs. Also a very common asthma trigger/culprit, so there are a host of products out there for home treatment (treating the house) of dust mites.

[Nezzy]

allergies develop over time, so doing ‘nothing differently’ means nothing. You need to have your dog allergy tested. Also- food allergy testing is extremely difficult. It takes at least 6 weeks to get allergens out of your dog from food. So you need to work with a vet experienced in Allergies. Steroids are not the enemy, and will help.

[TrotTrotPumpkn]

Black Doberman. Had a gorgeous thick coat pre-allergies. We talked about mange and I forget why the vet said there was basically no chance he has that. ??Ugh! Too many vet visits between him and the one with cancer.

Yes, I searched and found a board certified vet. http://www.mckeevervetderm.com/ Because a dog needs to go to a fourth vet clinic in less than 24 months of life! “Yay!”

Looks like Dr. Nicole travels to a local city. I wonder if one of his other three vets gives him a referral and that means we can expedite, or if he has to be seen by this other, local, clinic first.

So the blood test, which would save hundreds of dollars, is a bad place to start? How should I phrase it with his vet–“instead of doing this test, do you think we should go see a dermatologist?” Does that sound polite enough? Would a dermatologist do the test?

How much does all this other stuff cost? I need to gently prepare Mr. TrotTrot. For some reason he thinks we should be saving for retirement or traveling or doing fun stuff occasionally. IDK. shrug

Nezzy, That’s why I did 3+ month food rotations.

I know steroids work. I had another Doberman on them. I’m probably biased from her. I’m worried about the side-effects from long-term use and my (previous) doberman almost died after an emergency surgery when she couldn’t heal. It was quite horrific (stomach and intestinal wound sutures opened and had to heal from the inside out over a month and a half of 4x a day body bandage changing). I kept hoping her liver wouldn’t fall out (seriously, I have pictures–I had to use a flash/camera to track how she was healing). At least this one doesn’t eat toys/towels/socks. I know one of his littermates is on surgery #2 for obstruction. Ugh. Why do I have dogs?

[pezk]

Did the vet do a scraping for mange? Scrapings won’t always reveal the organism so sometimes a dermatologist will treat anyway if the skin condition looks like mange. Terribly itchy.
I asked about foxes because that’s the principal way dogs come down with it. They rub against a bush etc that a fox has rubbed against and the organism is transferred. Mange is endemic in the fox population.
The GSD that my daughter owned had a bad case of it. Went thru 2 vets who said it was allergies before she found a dermatologist who said, nope it’s mange. Treatment was with ivermectin over a number of months.
The dobes I’ve owned ,black and tan, haven’t had any allergies. The Blues, yes are well known for skin problems.
I would try a dermatologist first. Might save a long hassle.

[MistyBlue]

Not sure if the costs are static from state to state…but my late GSD developed allergies and no amount of careful management was helping much.
We took him for allergy testing, it was expensive and he looked hilarious. (shaved his entire side to administer tests) But the good news was…despite the high cost for the testing, the treatment was very affordable and easy. And worked fantastic!

The test was $1200 total. He was then put on allergy shots which were formulated for what he tested positive for allergies. IIRC, the starting doses were daily, after X amount of days they went to every other day, then later down to every third day and over time down to once weekly. Dose size also went down over time.

Given via sub-cu shots at home. It came out to about $60 per month for the medication and syringes. He was a different dog after that, 100%. So it was very much worth it for us, the repeated vet visits and management changes and steroids when unavoidable would have added up to that and more. It sucks coming up with that all at once, and I’m in CT so it may be a bit less in your area maybe. But it was definitely worth it.

And was surprising to hear that on top of various different seasonal allergies (tree pollen, hay fever, etc) he was also allergic to…cats and even had a low reaction to…wait for it…dogs.
Seriously…derm doc said it wasn’t unusual for dogs to develop allergies to dogs, LOL! He also had dust and mold allergies, but no food ones.

[S1969]

[QUOTE=TrotTrotPumpkn;8125768]
Black Doberman. Had a gorgeous thick coat pre-allergies. We talked about mange and I forget why the vet said there was basically no chance he has that. ??Ugh! [/QUOTE]

Hmm, that makes no sense to me. He may have no chance of sarcoptic mange (contagious type) but dogs under immune stress can develop an overpopulation of demodectic mange. All dogs have demodex mites already, but their immune system keeps them in check. It can be cyclical, too, since the mites can create opportunities for skin infections, which also itch, causing scratching, etc.

I’d just rule this out if you can; it probably costs almost nothing if you’re already at the vet.

http://www.peteducation.com/article.cfm?c=2+2101&aid=729

[Foxtrot_s]

Can’t wait for summer. In Canada the new drug, Apoquel, is not available until then, and considering the difficulty getting Apoquel in the States, may have to wait a bit.
My vet went to a dermatological conference and heard good report on it, but we can’t get it.
Continuing with moderate success with the shampoo with Ketaconozole/Prednisone system, but have to be diligent.

[Houndhill]

Yes I would go to a veterinary dermatologist. Hopefully you can find one who is both kind and practical. It will probably save you $$$ in the long run.

[SarahKing]

The veterinary dermatologist I used to work with never “bothered” with blood tests. If environmental allergies were suspected, he did skin tests.

Have you tried a prescription diet? I know you’ve done limited ingredient diets, but an RX diet is a little different. Most dog foods are “variable formula” which means that the company can change the ingredients for up to six months without changing the label, so you can’t be sure of what you’re getting. Also, you have to be so super strict with them - NOTHING can touch the mouth but the prescription food/treats and water. No other treats, no other food, no toys / rawhides / bones, etc.

Certainly request a skin scrape first. Your DVM should be able to do that no problem. Good luck!

[vacation1]

After years of dealing with allergies and hot spots, I finally took dog to a dermatologist. He put her on hydroxyzine and Royal Canin’s allergy diet, gave me a spray to hit any itchy area, and told me to e-collar her at the first sign of chewing/biting. The pred works miracles on itching, so it’s great to get them over an attack and let the skin heal, but no, you don’t want to keep them on it long-term.

Good luck! My dog’s allergies were periodic, not endless, but they were getting worse as she got older. Once we got in front of them, they stopped - she’s off the food, uses the meds rarely now. Hope you have the same luck.

[SquishTheBunny]

When mine had allergies I had to keep her on 25 mg prednisone for 10 days, then taper. I did have to go back up once but then I got her off everything and for 10 years she never had another problem. For many dogs, 3 days of steroids is not enough. And fwiw, 20mg is not a super high dose so long term effects should be negligible

My CAT was on 25mg for 3 years to manage his lymphoma

I wouldn’t hesitate to give pred a longer time before tapering, and a slower taper.

Also, most of us think it’s food that causes allergies, but just like in people it’s mainly environmental in origin (not to say it can’t be food…but don’t rule out environmental).

[TrotTrotPumpkn]

Well he stopped itching yesterday for no apparent reason. Must be the prednisone kicking back in. No itching today either.

It’s nice to catch a breather.

I may have exaggerated how bad his coat looks. It’s more around his chest and neck that it has thinned, his back still is thick and shiny.

I will ask them to do the scrape before booking with the dermatologist. Sounds like that would be the first step for anyone. Do they just scrape anywhere or does he need to have an active hotspot?

I have seen foxes before, like twice in the last 15 years, but never around my place. I imagine they would take out some of the feral cats or my chickens if they were around?

[TrotTrotPumpkn]

I want to ask an only semi-related question. Are probiotics regulated at all? Are all probiotics equal? I should probably start a new thread.

[Nezzy]

Dogs are not cheap, that is for certain. I cannot remember how much it cost to do allergy testing for our 11 lb dog, bc it was a few years ago. then the U of PA did a serum for her that we injected every day. We tried it but it never helped. i mean a long time. probably 18 months. By then we guessed it would not help. Steroids did help our JRT when he had them. Altho they did probably shorten his lifespan down to 13 yrs, he could not have had quality of life without them. We had bloodwork done every now and again, and he was fine up until renal failure at the end. I know it is very frustrating to have allergy dogs.

[Belmont]

Just saying, chances are a dermatologist (specialist prices $$) is going to want to do an allergy test as well. Honestly, it’s not a bad idea to run the test. Then you can get your custom drops made and your dog can live happy. We have a ton of dogs on drops that are so much happier and thriving. The drops we get are made to the dog and given under the tongue.

My dog is on Prednisone 20mg. She gets 1/2 t as needed to maintain her allergies. She gets yearly bloodwork done. She will be getting an allergy test as well after I pay down her bill a little more (yay for working at a clinic!). Most vets don’t want you to be on Steroids forever, so instead of spending a ton of money on baths, meds, visits, specialists, etc… Why not just break down and do the test? I would suggest spending the extra money on getting the test WITH food allergy included.

[stargzng386]

I would get the test done. My golden retriever was a few years old and had the same symptoms, started losing her coat and super itchy. Turned out she was allergic to grass, and ragweed and mold etc. We got the allergy shots for her and it made a huge difference. She was on them until she passed and was very comfortable and happy. While we were figuring it all out we did use a medicated shampoo twice a week which did help out as well, you could ask about that.