UPDATE on Update..I wish this was still about horrible allergies and Zyrtec

[Anne]

If you’re going to do immunotherapy (allergy serum), get the skin testing. It is far more accurate than the blood test. Likely a veterinary dermatologist will need to do the skin testing and formulate the immunotherapy rather than a general practitioner.

I agree that the dog needs to be screened for Demodecosis. And unfortunately changing his food amongst over the counter brands does nothing to rule in or out food allergy; he needs a true food trial with a prescription hypoallergenic diet. Also, has he had a Michigan State thyroid panel?

Squish, cats are far less sensitive to the pu/pd/polyphagia acute side effects of steroids, but 25mg/cat/day is a HUGE dose. I would not advise anyone to alter their veterinarian’s recommendations for steroid dose or taper instructions, since the risk of causing urinary accidents at minimum or diabetes at maximum is too great.

[TrotTrotPumpkn]

IDK, about a specific thyroid panel, he’s had blood work and I believe thyroid, but I would have to ask. If that’s a special thyroid panel test, probably not, most of our testing revolved around kidney/bladder/prostate.

I want to thank everyone for the input. It sounds like the dermatologist is the route to go. I had a spaniel who got seasonal allergies (I was a kid) and a run of prednisone each year and she was good. I think I kept hoping this would work that way too…

[vtdobes]

[QUOTE=TrotTrotPumpkn;8125768]

At least this one doesn’t eat toys/towels/socks. I know one of his littermates is on surgery #2 for obstruction. Ugh. Why do I have dogs?[/QUOTE]

Hmmmm…this is Asher’s brother??

Poor guy…skin issues can be sooo frustrating.

[DoubleClick]

I’m not sure if I missed the Zyrtec dosage in previous posts, but if it did, sorry. I give my male Doberman one 10mg pill 2x/day when his allergies flare. Hope you can get his symptoms under control.

[MistyBlue]

Dermatologist is a good idea…do wish there was a cheaper suggestion but the initial outlay is usually well worth it. And over time, the costs without a derm often add up to more. It’s just tough coming up with it all at once sometimes. :o

And I agree with Belmont on going the extra bit and adding in food allergies to the test. And doing the skin test.
I didn’t realize they made sublingual drops too! The sub-cu shots are easy, but sublingual drops sound even easier!

[Lord_Helpus]

My Yorkie has a ton of allergies. One of them is fleas, but we keep them under control, so they were not responsible for the constant itching. My vet gets Apoquel in every 3 months, and I got a 3 month supply. But it didn’t help!!! I was one step away from a referral to a dermatologist

Then I was told by the lady at the feed store that many dogs were allergic to anything “with feathers” — chicken, turkey, duck, etc. It began to make sense why she was better on some days than others. On her bad days I had been giving her grain free food with chicken or turkey in it. And once I began reading labels, I was amazed at how many grain free foods have chicken broth as a component even if chicken is not one of the named ingredients

Now that I have taken her off all “feathers” she has improved a lot. We are at the point where I can just give her an antihistamine several times a week. Occasionally I will have to add in a Pred, but not often.

Best of luck with your dog. It cannot hurt to make sure that he is not getting anything with chicken, turkey or water fowl in it.

[vacation1]

Just wanted to add - the dermatologist wasn’t cheap, the initial visit in 2008 was something like $400 all told, and follow-ups were around $150-$200. He didn’t do the allergy testing right off the bat, said he thought we could try the meds/spray/food combo first and see how that worked before investing in the allergy tests. So it wasn’t insanely expensive. And it really saved a ton of money long-term, because at that point, we were just going back to the vet every 3-5 months for antibiotics, emergency exam for a hot spot, etc.

[TrotTrotPumpkn]

[QUOTE=Lord Helpus;8127774]
My Yorkie has a ton of allergies. One of them is fleas, but we keep them under control, so they were not responsible for the constant itching. My vet gets Apoquel in every 3 months, and I got a 3 month supply. But it didn’t help!!! I was one step away from a referral to a dermatologist

Then I was told by the lady at the feed store that many dogs were allergic to anything “with feathers” — chicken, turkey, duck, etc. It began to make sense why she was better on some days than others. On her bad days I had been giving her grain free food with chicken or turkey in it. And once I began reading labels, I was amazed at how many grain free foods have chicken broth as a component even if chicken is not one of the named ingredients

Now that I have taken her off all “feathers” she has improved a lot. We are at the point where I can just give her an antihistamine several times a week. Occasionally I will have to add in a Pred, but not often.

Best of luck with your dog. It cannot hurt to make sure that he is not getting anything with chicken, turkey or water fowl in it.[/QUOTE]

We’re on a fish based food for the last 3 months. Trout, Salmon Meal, Peas, Pea Flour, Pea Protein, Flaxseed, Chickpeas, Dehydrated Alfalfa Meal, Natural Flavors, Salmon Oil, Sunflower Oil (preserved with Citric Acid), Dried Beet Pulp, Potassium Chloride, Calcium Chloride, Salt, Chorine Chloride, Minerals (Zinc Proteinate, Iron Proteinate, Copper Proteinate, Manganese Poteinate, Cobalt Proteinate), Vitamins (Vitamin A Acetate, Vitamin D3 Supplement, Vitamin E Supplement, Niacin, d-Calcium Pantothenate, Thiamine Mononitrate, Pyridoxine Hydrochloride, Riboflavin Supplement, Folic Acid, Biotin, Vitamin B12 Supplement), Blueberries, Carrots, Cranberries, Calcium Iodate, Sodium Selenite, Preserved with Mixed Tocopherols

I was pretty positive it wasn’t food related, but a week ago I switched to the “hypoallergenic” STINKY duck pill pockets and he’s doing quite badly suddenly. The steroids aren’t doing anything at this point. I’m going to stop into my vet’s tomorrow to pick up a couple Elizabethan collars (he cracks singles) to protect his tail and ears, which he’s doing a number on, and talk to her about getting a referral to the dermatologist and find out when she comes (how often, etc.).

He has been rolling in the dirt a lot (I’m sure he itches) and that’s fantastic if it’s something in the ground, which is what I suspect. Kind of hard to give him a bath after every time he goes to the bathroom.

I wish I could figure out why we had two days of no itching awhile back. It’s a great mystery. No food changed. He was on steroids, but that hasn’t changed either.

The other issue I don’t know what people do about is treats?! How am I supposed to train!? Balls/tugs are too high drive for him, he really trains better with food.

I’m wondering about string cheese???

He’s so itchy training is really a joke though. I was going to enter a trial and changed my mind. I know he will just stop mid-heel to itch. Poor, miserable dog.

Starting a new thread about probiotics.

Oh and thank you for the Zyrtec info!!

[catzndogz22]

My 80 pound lab/husky mix gets 1 Allegra 2x/day. That is the dermatologist recommended dosage. I’ve tried every other antihistamine except for Zyrtec. So far, the Allegra (AllerFex from Costco) is working better than the others we’ve tried. I should also state that he’s been on sublingual immotherapy drops for two years. The initial skin testing was expensive, but the ongoing immunotherapy comes out to about $60/month.

His allergies are clearly seasonal, but I have found that his allergies are better with some foods than others. He’s currently eating the Natural Balance sweet potato and fish formula.

In addition to all this, he gets 6 fish oil capsules/day, also the max dosage recommended by the dermatologist. We worked up to that amount slowly.

This spring, he’s doing better than he has the past few years, but is still not symptom free. If you do decide to see a derm, you might also ask about Apoquel. Last year was the first year it was on the market, but then they were back-ordered until recently. It’s reasonably priced with relatively few known side-effects so far.

[TrotTrotPumpkn]

We took the first available appointment, which is June 15th. Sounds like the appointment with the testing will be about $500 plus tax, in case anyone was curious.

I’m going to bring a bunch of notes, and will ask about Apoquel too, so I can get the most out of our hour.

The receptionist said something about allergy serums and giving shots. I’ll have to look up what the drops you mention are vs. shots?

I asked her if they sedate the dogs and she said no–is that normal? My dog has strong anxiety at the vet clinic (he had a rough first year and most of it involved getting flipped over and needles in his groin searching for a sterile urine sample, so he’s really not a fan).

In the meantime, he will just have to live in a cone when we can’t watch him. I’m tempted to try the soft cone. He cracks the plastic ones–I have to tape two together.

Should be a lovely 2 weeks before hand after we’ve tapered off all the anti-itch meds. Ugh.

[sockmonkey]

If your dog had demodectic mange, the steroids would have made it considerably worse, so they fact that he responded to steroids makes the idea of mange unlikely. Given that, nearly every dermatologist I know would start with a skin scrape first always. Skin scrape, tape prep (scotch tape over the hair, look at it under the microscope - very inexpensive and non-invasive). I never give steroids before doing a skin scrape in case it is mange because it will make it worse. It’s an easy diagnosis and easy treatment. Tape prep lets me see if there is an overgrowth of yeast so I know if I need to use anti-fungals, oral meds as well as shampoos.

The worse problem with allergies is that there is no quick fix. It is a multi-modal fix - sometimes food, but usually shampoos, medications, allergy injections.
Apoquel is a Godsend, but is on ever-lasting backorder and you have to be God’s nephew to get some. But it works wonders - but you have to use it properly. Don’t give it for a week and then say, doesn’t work, and then stop. I’ve had tons of clients do that and all I can think about is all that Apoquel I wasted on them.

Most dermatologists do not require a referral. Some do. Give them a call and go. It is worth it in the long run rather than going to your rDVM over and over again.

[gloriginger]

[QUOTE=sockmonkey;8139713]
If your dog had demodectic mange, the steroids would have made it considerably worse, so they fact that he responded to steroids makes the idea of mange unlikely.[/QUOTE]

I was going to say the same thing.

My dog has horrible seasonal allergies…I have heard a lot of really positive results from feeding coconut oil.

[catzndogz22]

[QUOTE=TrotTrotPumpkn;8139122]
We took the first available appointment, which is June 15th. Sounds like the appointment with the testing will be about $500 plus tax, in case anyone was curious.

I’m going to bring a bunch of notes, and will ask about Apoquel too, so I can get the most out of our hour.

The receptionist said something about allergy serums and giving shots. I’ll have to look up what the drops you mention are vs. shots?

I asked her if they sedate the dogs and she said no–is that normal? My dog has strong anxiety at the vet clinic (he had a rough first year and most of it involved getting flipped over and needles in his groin searching for a sterile urine sample, so he’s really not a fan).

In the meantime, he will just have to live in a cone when we can’t watch him. I’m tempted to try the soft cone. He cracks the plastic ones–I have to tape two together.

Should be a lovely 2 weeks before hand after we’ve tapered off all the anti-itch meds. Ugh.[/QUOTE]

I think the drops are a fairly new option and just became available in the past two or three years. I opted for the drops over the injections because I didn’t want my guy to ever be afraid of me. He’s a trooper, so we probably would have been fine with the shots. The drops are given 2x daily year round. They are a breeze to administer. The dog is not supposed to have food or water for 10 minutes before or after getting the drops, but for the first few days, I followed the drops with a treat, to get him used to them. Now he just walks right in the kitchen and sits down in front of me when it’s time for his drops. He actually seems to like them.

Our appointment for the skin testing was over $500, but it did come with the first supply of immunotherapy drops which lasts for about 5 months. After that, refills are around $300, but again they last about 5 months.

My dog was sedated for the skin testing, but it only took them a few minutes for the procedure. Maybe they can give your dog a tranquilizer?

Here’s a link to the drops we use: http://www.heska.com/Products/ALLERCEPT/Allercept-Drops.aspx

[catzndogz22]

[QUOTE=sockmonkey;8139713]
Apoquel is a Godsend, but is on ever-lasting backorder and you have to be God’s nephew to get some. But it works wonders - but you have to use it properly. Don’t give it for a week and then say, doesn’t work, and then stop. I’ve had tons of clients do that and all I can think about is all that Apoquel I wasted on them.[/QUOTE]

It’s good to hear more positive feedback on Apoquel. Have you noticed any significant side effects or adverse reactions?

When we saw the derm earlier this spring, she had Apoquel available if I wanted it, but she wasn’t counting on having an endless supply. Last year she had only enough for a handful of patients and she was one of the veterinarians who participated in the clinical trials.

[MistyBlue]

I do like the idea that they came out with drops now. Sometimes all you have to do is ask the vet if they can have the pharm make it in another form. I’ve done that for feline meds before, because pilling a cat is like trying to be Satan’s dentist. :eek:

While $500 isn’t cheap, it’s most likely going to be worth it. Some mild to moderate allergies are annoying to deal with but they can be dealt with. Some serious allergies are a HUGE pain in the butt until you pinpoint what it is and treat specifically for those.

The allergy test my dog had was the vet shaving one side of his body and then administering the big panel of skin tests. That dog was anxious at the vets, but he wasn’t sedated. His anxiety was crouching low and hoping to become invisible, sometimes adding in peeing for good measure. (poor guy) But it was pretty fast considering, so he was in and out pretty quick and could hang with us until any reactions showed. (people in the waiting area kept gasping and asking, “OMG, what happened to him???” because of his one bald side, LOL! I kept saying “We’re never taking him to that groomer again!”)

E-collars are good, but I’ve always had big dogs and some have cracked them too. Pet supply places often sell better versions of those. I have a nice canvas covered version here that attaches with Velcro, more comfy to wear and can’t be cracked. But they can’s see through it like the plastic ones. Didn’t bother my dog, it worked like blinders. I also have one that’s like a big inflatable donut they wear as a collar. They can see and turn their heads like normal, eat and drink easily but can’t curl their heads around to chew at themselves. I REALLY like that one, dogs have liked it, too. But I have had a dog or two that were Yoga Masters and could get around that one. But most couldn’t.

Fingers crossed for a good result at the derm’s appointment! When we made our apt years ago, it was a 3 month wait. A lot of dogs have allergies apparently! Update here after?

[jetsmom]

[QUOTE=Nezzy;8125765]
allergies develop over time, so doing ‘nothing differently’ means nothing. You need to have your dog allergy tested. Also- food allergy testing is extremely difficult. It takes at least 6 weeks to get allergens out of your dog from food. So you need to work with a vet experienced in Allergies. Steroids are not the enemy, and will help.[/QUOTE]

This^^^
I’d look at food first. Grain free/alternative protein source. Like bison/venison. No beef, chicken, lamb. Make sure treats don’t have those items either. It can take a month just to start seeing results.

Flea allergies can make a dog itch if there is even ONE flea bite.

Carpet cleaners/powders can cause it, laundry detergents you use on your clothes, bedding can cause allergy. Grasses, pollens, etc can cause it.

Microtek anti itch shampoo works great. I’d try washing with that twice a week for two weeks, then once a week for 2 weeks then once every 2 weeks for a month, then once a month.

Or get allergy testing done.

[hoopoe]

I would not get too far afield until the dermatologist have a good look at your dog. It sounds like his breeding gave him a raft of potential problems.

Conditions like Pemphagus need to be rules out. I would start with a skin biopsy and a current immune panel (blood) before dermal skin sensitivity testing

[TrotTrotPumpkn]

hoopoe–I think his problem in breeding is that he is a Doberman! My last two out of three have had allergies. I’ve had a Doberman with IBS and that was probably the worst…

I had a female who was neurotic about eating things and had an obstruction when she finally got a chance at some socks at age six. I can’t tell you how stressful constantly being on guard with her was (you couldn’t even leave a dish towel on the counter for a second) and then in a moment of panic when we forgot to put up the baby gate (water in the basement) she, in about 30 seconds, swallowed two socks whole–and I mean not a chew, I washed them so I could look at them after they came out of her stomach/intestines. So when I say I’m happy he doesn’t do that, I mean it! I’m sure we would have had another slip-up at some point, but she got cancer and died.

My old male (rescue) is a flank sucker/biter. At least he doesn’t self-mutilate like other Dobermans I know.

Regarding this one, I think his breeder did a really nice job with selecting the parents. Both are working dogs, old enough that most issues would have cropped up, and extensively health tested. Sometimes these things happen though. None of the other pups have had the health issues he has. My luck!

He’s doing ok on a full steroid pill a day and wearing a hard cone when we are gone. Scratching some, but no wear near as bad. I think we will just stay on it until it is time to taper for the appt. in June. Still getting at his tail, so I may try the tube inflatable for when he’s out of the crate again. The first one I bought had a hole in it before I used it! Ugh.

[TB_lover]

My Rottie (another breed famous for allergy issues) had hotspot flareups all summer the first year I had her when she got her full set of shots including rabies - started just days after and finally died down and went away when got cold in fall. No shots for next 2 yrs = no hotspots at all in exactly same environment. Alas she is due again for shots this year… plan with my vet is wait till late fall near freezing so no mosquitos, fleas or other possible hotspot aggravation factors, and separate shots into as many separate needles as possible spaced a couple weeks apart to avoid one big hit on her immune system. Just an idea maybe an issue with yours also?

Oh and mine was then violently ill with diarrhea and smelled like a walking swamp for two weeks the year I tried spot dab flea/tick/mosquito control. I also just avoid that now! My delicate dainty lil 90lb flower sigh… she’s about 5 now so I figure trying to avoid the allergy causes is easiest solution.

[TrotTrotPumpkn]

[QUOTE=TB_lover;8146746]
My Rottie (another breed famous for allergy issues) had hotspot flareups all summer the first year I had her when she got her full set of shots including rabies - started just days after and finally died down and went away when got cold in fall. No shots for next 2 yrs = no hotspots at all in exactly same environment. Alas she is due again for shots this year… plan with my vet is wait till late fall near freezing so no mosquitos, fleas or other possible hotspot aggravation factors, and separate shots into as many separate needles as possible spaced a couple weeks apart to avoid one big hit on her immune system. Just an idea maybe an issue with yours also?

Oh and mine was then violently ill with diarrhea and smelled like a walking swamp for two weeks the year I tried spot dab flea/tick/mosquito control. I also just avoid that now! My delicate dainty lil 90lb flower sigh… she’s about 5 now so I figure trying to avoid the allergy causes is easiest solution.[/QUOTE]

Good ideas. But it started in Oct/Nov and he had vaccines in May last year. I am SO annoyed that the county we moved to requires rabies every year for dogs. It is just absolutely ridiculous! The county to the north, when we lived in town, is every 2 years. Still crazy.

There is one manufacturer that makes a Thermosial (sp?) or Mercury free rabies vaccine for dogs, btw. Worth requesting I think.

My horse was really under the weather this year when she got her boosters, but is fine now. Ugh.