UPDATE on Update..I wish this was still about horrible allergies and Zyrtec

[TrotTrotPumpkn]

I thought I would post an update. My regular vet got a bottle of Apoquel in and I cancelled my dermatologist appointment for June. Weaning him off the steroid was HORRIBLE. Even though it wasn’t 100% effective, I had forgotten how bad he was before it. We took it very slow (almost 3 weeks) and then started the Apoquel. I figured if it worked great, and if it didn’t we could do the full work-up with the dermatologist and try the serums.

You start with a loading dose. He was never 100% allergy-free on it, but I would say it worked better than Prednisolone–almost 95% effective when on loading dose. We have recently gone down to one pill a day. He’s definitely chewing on himself by the evening, but overall is still improved from before. Maybe 75-80% effective? I want to see how it does for a few days before I add in Zyrtec or anything else (otherwise how do I know what is working)?

The other wrench is we went on prescription Royal Canine Urinary food, because his struvite crystals were off the charts. He didn’t culture positive for infection. This dog has had many, many problems with bladder infections, but we had been doing so well for several months. I wonder if the prednisolone was at fault some how?? And apoquel is an immune suppressant too. So now he is on a nasty ingredient food that costs me $200 a month to feed (really, it’s horrid–it’s yellow and the first ingredients are: Brewers rice, corn, wheat, egg product, chicken fat, corn gluten meal) but his urine stream seems easier and he is more willing to pee. sigh We will test after a month to see where the crystals are at. I absolutely don’t want to keep him on this food, although I know that will be recommended. My friend was telling me about a vet who I wasn’t aware of that will work out a RAW food plan with you and do titers and all that kinds of good stuff that no one around here seems to do, so I may do a consult there. I just don’t want to loose access to the Apoquel. I’m not sure how available it is yet?

It’s like we have these two issues that war with each other.

My vet pointed out that between this and all his vet visits, this dog costs me more a month than it does to stall board a horse. If I can get him a bit better with Zyrtec (which seems to work better for him than Benadryl) we may be able to start training again (it was useless before–he just wanted to itch). I’d like to trial this fall–there is no way we will be ready for the July show.

[Nezzy]

Ugh sorry. sounds frustrating as heck. I know the steroids will cause urinary issues. I have a dog prone to UTI, he must have a low protein food, but i would never go with hills brand. All that crap in there is horrible. i was able to have my vet talk to the people at the Honest kitchen and she approved me to give him to low protein turkey HK, but that is pretty expensive. you might be able to find a food that is low in protein that will accomodate your wallet and his health. Sometimes steroids are a good option, but not if they are causing bladder problems.

[WorkingDrive]

After spending close to $10,000 on our dog JUST for her allergy problems, I feel your pain. Our dog has been on Apoquel just over one year. It worked great to begin with, but you should know that it is doesn’t actually “treat” anything. It acts as an inhibitor of sorts so your dog doesn’t itch. Apoquel came out about the same time our dog started it. They push, push, pushed it, and it had great results (better than Atopica) so that there was high demand for it. Then poof they ran out, and only some clinics and the most serious patients were getting it (we were on that list.)

I may have missed this, but has your vet discussed bacterial yeast overgrowth? Our dog has two issues going on: bacterial yeast overgrowth (which starts in the gut) and environmental/seasonal allergies. Ask us how much fun our Spring and Fall is! We have our dog on quality probiotics and digestive enzymes as well as bathe her with Zymox Conditioning Shampoo and Zymox Conditioning Rinse. Her ears get done with Zymox ear cleaner or Veterycin (depending on what they look like.)

Bedding gets washed DAILY, and our cleaning products are homemade/non-chemical (primarily vinegar-based.)

I can say that after one year, Apoquel does not seem to be working as much. She did start with a loaded dose, and then they reduced it after 3 months after her complete blood panel. Then they bumped it up slightly so she is only slightly below her loaded dosage. However, she is itching again (though the shampoo/conditioner, probiotics, and digestive enzymes prevent itching from getting extreme.) On particular hot days with flare ups, she gets really itchy, and it’s in the tub she goes! The Zymox has REALLY helped.

We used Microtek (shampoo and spray,) E3, Veterinarian’s Formula, a $40 shampoo from the Vet with chlorhexidine, but Zymox has been the best.

It’s such an uphill battle, but it’s worth it. If you ever want to talk allergies, let me know. We’ve seen vets and veterinary dermatologists as well as holistic veterinarians.

[Lord_Helpus]

Poor you and poor dog!

I have not read all posts, but I see you are now on Apoquel. My Yorkie started on it last winter and it did not help as much as Prednisone. I was told (several times) that I was not giving the Pred, correctly. But the “as needed” basis worked for us. Like your dog, once we got down to the every other day, I might as well have not been giving it. So I now give a Benadryl every morning and then see how she is doing. If she is still itching I will give a Pred at night.

Interestingly enough, the Apoquel did not work last winter, but it is working now. However, my Yorkie is supposed to get 1/8th of a pill every day. But, once I tried cutting 1/4th of a pill in half (with my pill cutter) I ended up with Apoquel dust. So I tried giving her 1/4 of a pill (double the recommended dose for her weight) and that worked great.

Moose gets 2 meals a day. If she is going to have a good day, she does not itch at all after breakfast. But, on a bad day, within 5 minutes of eating she is going crazy. And she does not know if she has been given a pill or not, so I know that her itching is ‘honest’.

After a while, I think we know our dogs better than the vet or than whoever figured out the “recommended dose”, so I have tried every combination of things to find out what works for Moose. And giving things on an “as needed” basis works best for her.

In general, a Pred or an Apoquel followed by Benadryl for several days works well. Then we might need a boost of another Pred or Apoquel, followed by Benadryl for 3 - 4 days. This has been going on for 2 years and she and I (and my pocketbook) are all still alive.

[Foxtrot_s]

I’ve read every word here

Our white Bull Terrier is on prednisone - one pill one day, two the next. Apoquel is not available here yet (in Canada) and I was setting my hopes on that.

What probiotics do you find works for his internal yeast?

Another shampoo that has been excellent for my dog is Mal-A-Ket shampoo and also the spray for use afterwards. It is available on line from Entirely Pets
and has acetic acid in it and Ketaconozole. (sp.) which is good for yeasty skin.

But this just keeps his itch under control…best I can do right now.

Zyrtec - is that recommended more than other anti-allergy meds.

Along with his dry-eye this dog is hard work.

[TrotTrotPumpkn]

I tried Benadryl Foxtrot, and Zyrtec just seems to work better for this dog.

Well we had an ER vet visit Saturday night that lasted until 1 AM (because the ER is hopp’n on a Saturday!). He dived into the burn pile and scratched/poked his eyeball on a branch. So we’re administering a serum from his blood and topical antibiotics in the eye and he needs a follow up visit this week with a regular vet.

I made the follow-up visit with a new-to-me vet that one of my dog friends really recommends. She is supportive of RAW, etc. If I want to get him off the perscription kidney diet, based on what I’m reading, RAW may be the way to go, but I’ve been researching it and I just need help with the transition. I know his father is fed RAW.

I will probably spend more time prepping healthy food for my dog than me, but that’s life. lol.

I worry there is an underlying kidney infection that they didn’t detect the last time I had him tested and we went on the prescription diet. Struvite crystals usually = infection.

He’s also been cuddly for the last week and a half. This dog is 0 (sleeping) or 100% active all the time. He’s more like some malinois I know than any doberman I’ve met. He doesn’t cuddle and watch tv. I’m worried he’s dying or something. Really. Although he is a bum in heat and it has been hot out. I’m probably paranoid, it could just be “summer Archer.” Still, I’m glad we are going in on Thursday even though it is yet more $.

Once we get the immediate crises done I will get back to the allergies. The apoquel is working about 80% this week. He has a couple little hot spots currently.

[TrotTrotPumpkn]

We got a culture! Finally!! He had peed it all out and ultrasound/needle in bladder was unsuccessful (as always) but she got some pee via catheter. Went to a different vet clinic.

I just got the lab results. He has a “bad” staph infection. It is responsive to Baytril, so three weeks and then re-culture. The senior vet called, as she said she is on his case too being he’s so complicated (eye, allergies, staph/bladder) and the one we saw is on vacation, and she suggests flat and contrasting (borium I’m guessing) x-rays to see if we can find the abnormality that has caused this dog UTI after UTI after UTI and surgically correct it.

She saw this once before when an “embryonic structure” was retained in an adult dog and caused a partial blockage? IDK.

I’m so stressed. I’m worried about him, worried about his kidneys and worried about how much this will cost. My dogs are making my horse look really cheap! The last one had obstruction surgery followed by cancer. My other one has cancer…and this one, well…

I think I’m done with Dobermans.

His eye is getting better. His allergies are still there, but they seem somewhat unimportant at the moment.

[LauraKY]

I had UTI after UTI with my first cocker. At one point, she and my daughter had exactly the same symptoms with kidney involvement (which turned out to be NOT a coincidence). We did every diagnostic including exploratory surgery. Turned out to be Lyme disease.

[TrotTrotPumpkn]

[QUOTE=LauraKY;8217072]
I had UTI after UTI with my first cocker. At one point, she and my daughter had exactly the same symptoms with kidney involvement (which turned out to be NOT a coincidence). We did every diagnostic including exploratory surgery. Turned out to be Lyme disease.[/QUOTE]

He had his first UTI at a few months old. I don’t know if Lymes would apply? But that is VERY interesting. I had not thought about Lymes. He does stay on Frontline Plus all summer.

I got him from NC and I know ticks are a big problem there. We are having a lot of ticks this year, but that’s not normal (he’s 2, but has had UTIs for his whole life on and off).

Would the allergies possibly be linked to Lymes??

[Cherry]

If it’s any consolation, TTP–it’s not just Dobes that have problems! Thirty years ago we had a pair of Cocker Spaniel cousins from a supposed “reputable” breeder–they both had genetic cataracts, although the black & tan’s eyes were much worse, as were his ears. We adopted him when he was several years old–he didn’t have a good start in life (no one to love him and an abusive first home). The other guy, a buff boy had some allergies too we had to deal with that affected his eyes too, but an antihistamine took care of that. And those ears–they required frequent attention!

All breeds have their own problems, but with all these allergies increasing I have to wonder if our air quality isn’t to blame… How can you be against clean air? :uhoh:

[Nezzy]

I have a dog prone to UTI’s and his steroids for his grass allergies can affect his UTI situation. it is a fine balance between the Steroids to help with allergies and the bladder issues. Plus my dog is supposed to be on a low protein food, ( 21% is ideal). we have been able to balance things pretty well. I am starting him on Apoquel today and hoping the Apoquel prevents the need of the Steroids. But still willing to go back to the steroids if necessary. So sorry this has been very difficult for you.

[GraceLikeRain]

Jingles and Hugs. They are so exhausting. I went through a long battle with GI stuff with my guy. I can really relate to the anxiety and stress about what’s going to happen next and $$$.

I hope that RAW is the way to go and helps you get things under control.

[Chall]

Has anyone tried acupuncture? In the northeast, there was a vet Allen Schoen ?
who treated my horse before he became famous (vet, not horse).