Update post 51 we weighed the feed Feed help - OTTB needs weight and muscle

[beowulf]

Oil is usually easier for staff to feed than customized hay, alfalfa, or grain - which uses up limited grain room space, or has to be stored remotely. Most barns don’t allow people to bring their own grain/hay for that reason.

The benefit to oil is that it adds negligible time to grain set up, takes up no space, and it’s guaranteed to be eaten if your horse finds it palatable. That cannot be said for other ad-lib forage options; is the barn staff going to wait for Dobbin to eat his 10lb of boarder-provided hay/grain in his stall? Either Dobbin misses out on T/O time to eat his personalized rations provided by the boarder in his stall (and gets agitated being alone in the barn), or worse, Dobbin is fed his personalized rations in T/O, and all the other horses benefit from it and eat his food.

It highlights why customized/personalized feeding options rarely work in a boarding barn. There is just no cost-efficient, labor-efficient way to get additional food into a boarded horse beyond the minimum provided by the barn.

[RooTheDay]

@beowulf

Oil is a lot easier for a staff member to feed than customized hay, alfalfa, or grain - all which take up large amounts of space in the grain room, or have to be stored remotely if not enough room. Most barns don’t allow people to bring their own grain/hay for that reason, and its additional work on the staff members to walk to these places for grain set up.

As always, mileage varies!

I do think oil is a great option if the horse will eat it and the staff doesn’t mind, but in my experience in the mid-atlantic area, barns are willing to feed grain you provide because it saves them hard money (while admittedly adding non-direct costs in staff time) and staff would rather scoop a different grain to prep meals than deal with the mess of oil on feed pans, cups, and setting apparatus. Of course, in all of the setups I’ve seen and worked in, the boarder-provided grain is kept in the feed room, so it’s right there and easy to deal with. Alfalfa/hay is different and harder, but they’re already feeding OP’s alfalfa.

That said, in re-reading the OP, I did notice that I’d missed OP’s comment that the barn wouldn’t feed any more grain without paying extra, which potentially changes my advice about upping the Kalm N EZ; given that, I’d suggest just running the numbers on how much extra the barn would charge for the extra Kalm N EZ (which does have the advantage of simplicity) vs. buying and supplying a higher-quality, higher-calorie complete feed such as one of the two I mentioned.

[S1969]

@RooTheDay

…than deal with the mess of oil on feed pans, cups, and setting apparatus.

I was happy to give up trying to get my mare to eat it for all those reasons too.

[alteredcarbon]

I’d have to ask about oil. No climate control in the feed room and no fridge or other spot to store it, so rancidity is a consideration. And it is messy, for sure. No other horses get oil at this time

[beowulf]

Agreed mileage varies, and so does what’s easy from barn to barn. I was considering the staff/boarder element, having been both extensively. Catering custom feed options has always been more labor intensive for me than supplements/oil, YMMV.

A trick for oil if you are worried about mess, a 5g plastic feed bucket for set up, and a pump on the oil. Measure out what 1 cup = in pumps, and top dress on feed and dump. No need for measuring cups or additional utensils once you know exactly how many pumps it takes for your desired feeding. It doesn’t have to be 1 cup, that’s just an example.

In high temp areas oil can spoil, I am in the NE and never had it happen to me, in my non-climate controlled tack shed for grain. I imagine in hot areas that’s different.

Just remember with oil, always start small and work your way up so a horse doesn’t turn their nose up at it.

[alteredcarbon]

I’m researching a grain swap if I decide to provide in part or in whole. I have tractor supply, plus a semi-local feed store carries TC.

Options I’m considering:
TSC (aka easy to get):
Purina Ultium GC or Competition (1500-1800cals?)
TC Senior (1550cals)
TC Senior Active+ (1540 cals)

Feed store (more complicated):
TC Perform Gold (1800cals)
TC Senior Gold (1800cals)

Opinions?

I’ll probably drop the alfalfa hay unless I can find better bales, and sub in pellets or cubes. I may also play with the supplements to make sure I’m not wasting money, but that will require some math.

[beowulf]

In your position, if the barn would allow it, TC Senior or TC Senior Gold + dropping the alf hay for alf pellets might be the most viable solution if you can store some of these things at home.

My myopia may be showing - in provide-your-own-food situations, a lot of people tend to help themselves to other people’s supplies.

[Libby2563]

@alteredcarbon

He looked better a few weeks ago but now the barn staff swears he’s taller again and he’s once again ribby.

@alteredcarbon

He gets as much hay as he can eat when he IS in, but when they’re out it’s whatever the barn throws. Which they are all leaving to go try to rip up the baby grass that’s sorta growing anyway.

I’m not saying you’re wrong to worry or to tweak his feed, but I will say that late March / early April is always when my TB looks his worst. In addition to holding on to his baby-poop-brown winter coat, that’s when the new grass starts to become more tempting than the perfectly good hay that they ate voraciously all winter. I try to get ahead of it now by upping grain in early March and that does help, but my TB will only eat so much hard feed anyway. Honestly I just do my best and by late April the grass is really good and he’s bouncing back. He looks much better right now than he did a few weeks ago.

[RooTheDay]

@alteredcarbon

Options I’m considering:
TSC (aka easy to get):
Purina Ultium GC or Competition (1500-1800cals?)
TC Senior (1550cals)
TC Senior Active+ (1540 cals)

Feed store (more complicated):
TC Perform Gold (1800cals)
TC Senior Gold (1800cals)

Opinions?

Standard Ultium is 1900 kcal/lb, Ultium Gastric Care is slightly less. When I referenced Triple Crown senior before, I was thinking of the Gold (should have clarified–it’s been a bit since I’ve had a horse on it.) Those are my two favorites (Ultium vs Ultium GC is pretty irrelevant to me), personally, based on calorie to NSC ratio, but I don’t think any of the options you posted are bad.

Totally understand the lure of the TSC, but one more thing to consider: I started off buying at TSC because it was easy and ultimately decided to go with the feed store instead, because it was so much fresher. I had bug and rancidity issues with my local TSC because they didn’t do enough volume. Maybe yours does do enough volume and this won’t be an issue for you, but something to keep in mind.

[luvmyhackney]

What feeds can the BO get at current feed store?

Just use BOs feed store, pay over phone and have them deliver with BOs food?

I prefer Ultium GC over TC Senior, 2/3 horses of my horses are not fans of TC Senior. I works for many horses, just not mine.

[alteredcarbon]

No TC. Maybe Purina? Definitely tribute. I can get purina from a place 10 minutes from my house though.

@JB I’m actually barely concerned about feed theft here thank goodness. It’s one of the pluses for this place - very good control of the personal property of boarders and clients. Any hay that has ended up eaten by someone else’s horse was entirely accidental and very minor.

[alteredcarbon]

Standard Ultium appears to be 1800 or so, though the GC I can’t find any numbers besides 1550/lb? I do like the outlast so if it is closer to 1800 I’d probably try that as a supplement/partial swap.

This horse so far hasn’t been picky, but I’ve had good results with TC before so it is my “safety” brand. I like the Purina dog food, but my only experience with Purina horse feed has been the low end of the brand and not good.

[RooTheDay]

@alteredcarbon

Standard Ultium appears to be 1800 or so, though the GC I can’t find any numbers besides 1550/lb? I do like the outlast so if it is closer to 1800 I’d probably try that as a supplement/partial swap.

Yeah, it’s super annoying they don’t publish the numbers. My 1900 kcal/lb for regular and 1800 kcal/lb for GC come from actually calling Purina a few years back.

This horse so far hasn’t been picky, but I’ve had good results with TC before so it is my “safety” brand. I like the Purina dog food, but my only experience with Purina horse feed has been the low end of the brand and not good.

IMO high-end Purina and low-end Purina are apples and oranges. I agree with you that I also wouldn’t/won’t feed something like Strategy or Omolene but I think Ultium is great and have been really happy with it. Small-animal-wise, one dog eats Pro Plan Sport 30/20, the other dog eats Vet Diets Hydrolyzed, and the cat eats Weruva because I don’t like any of Purina’s cat foods. That said, I have/do also use various TC products and think they’re great too!

[tabula_rashah]

I’d get rid of the ground flax and cool calories and switch to Mad Barn’s w-3 oil. I’d also make sure that he was never without hay in front of him

[alteredcarbon]

Totally understand if you didn’t wade through the whole thread (I know I ramble), but the hay issue is moot because he lives out in a herd except for 3 hours or so a day and I’m not able to buy hay for everyone. Oil is TBD based on if the barn will feed it. But ideally, I’d absolutely just stuff him full of hay and cut out the “extras” in favor of a different grain/feed protocol!

Looks like I may do some swaps with pellets and grain at least to substitute the K&E. I need to look at prices though

[tabula_rashah]

I didn’t wade through the whole thing but with 100% honestly I’d move my horse if 24 hay wasn’t an option.

[alteredcarbon]

Where on earth do you have boarding barns that actually provide this? I’m only half joking - plenty of places CLAIM they do and then horses stand in stalls all day with empty nets . I’m not saying it’s ideal but I have yet to find a boarding barn that ACTUALLY provides unlimited hay to the needs of each horse. Or, the “unlimited hay” is a crappy round bale in a mud pit.

ETA I’ve boarded all over the east coast and in parts of the Midwest, from cheap to expensive, backyard to full care fancy show barn.

[tabula_rashah]

I’m in the mid-Atlantic and free choice hay seems to be the norm, I’ve never worked or boarded anywhere that wasn’t. I currently board 5 on self-care, they have 24/7 access to round bales and pasture. I feel like there are just too many issues that come from lack of forage

[alteredcarbon]

Expounding on this tangent - IME you can have lots of turnout and battle the feeding program, or you can have 4-8 hours of turnout in a paddock and battle the feeding program AND the issues with lack of turnout.

At least in a stall you know what the horse is eating, but that comes at a price. There are always compromises.

[alteredcarbon]

Self care helps! We have almost none of those types of places around here unfortunately.