I agree with @Jealoushe rearing makes me think there’s something else going on other than horse being a jerk.
I’m in Ontario so we get a good 5 months of winter. And it gets cold! My horse used to stop and spin in an arena plus he gets very looky/spooky at things in the corners of the arena. The stop and spin 95% disappeared after he had a chip removed from his hock.
During COVID restrictions we had a schedule and I was scheduled alone during one of my times. So every Thursday I’d be riding outside regardless even in the winter because I felt safer.
My guy is on tryptophan as he’s a generally anxious guy. It seems to take the edge off. We also give treat him for ulcers over the winter because the arena can stress him out. He gets omeprazole and sucralfate- so we treat both kinds of ulcers.
I’ve looked into TRT. It’s quite pricey but he currently has 50% off his course. If you aren’t familiar with it it’s groundwork and a lot of the work is to get the horse to self-regulate and come to a place of rest and relaxation. The ground work does translate into under saddle work. If you look for it on YouTube do a search for TRT method and you’ll find his videos there. There’s a variety of case studies. People have had a lot of success with it with difficult horses. My only concern with it is that I’d want to make sure I was doing it properly and it would probably be better (at least for me) if there was someone else on the ground to help me.
Yes horses already have started shedding. I’m expecting my old guy to start on the weekend because he’s usually starting by Jan 1st!
The rearing sounds like herd bound behavior, which it being new makes sense with the also-new buddy situation.
I really think you need to figure out a safe way to lunge this horse. She needs to get her willies out without you up there potentially compounding the issue. You also need a safe way to not allow her shenanigans to result in less work for her.
FWIW, my young mare was WILD two days ago, she got free lunged with my Old Man for 15 minutes, then put on a lunge line for another 15 minutes of popping over low jumps to keep her mind engaged. Yesterday, calm as a cucumber. It’s all over the map right now with the weather swinging.
“Read” your horse. If your horse is “herdbound”, she is not currently thinking of YOU as the primary source of important influence in her life. YOU are just a bit of a nuisance, getting in the way of what is important to her… Her friend. If you do not hold her attention and respect as the most important and influential being in her life, she WILL give you the middle finger salute if she feels like it. And it’s not her fault if she does. Because you have failed to earn this position in her opinion with the relationship you have established with her. And sending her away to be reprogrammed by someone else is unlikely to work well, because she is not a machine. This position is something that you must earn, over time, in her opinion. If you don’t have this relationship with this horse, she will not be safe or responsive to your desires or cues. This is not just being “fresh”. She’s speaking to you with her behavior…listen to her. Good luck.
I agree with many of the other posters that there are likely multiple factors at play. That said, I’ll echo EndlessClimb here too. My guy has had the last week off between the holiday and the terrible weather, with very limited or no turnout for a good chunk of that time. It was nearly 60°F today and all our horses were lit up.
When my guy walked halfway to me in the pasture, wheeled around, galloped a full lap (apropros of nothing) and then came strolling back to me to get his halter - I figured we had a date with the lunge line before my lesson. Sure enough, he had some Big Feelings™️ that needed to be worked out.
Again, I think there’s probably more than blanketing or excess energy involved in your case, but making sure that she has the opportunity to burn it off in a way that’s safe for both of you may be helpful.
I quickly scanned most of the replies. Honestly, she got training holes. Period.
You can make excuses for her being cold. Hormonal. Marei-ish. Etc.
And sure, those things can be considered but the bottom line is that her brain is reacting. (instead of thinking) In her mind, something is getting her to the point of the meltdown. Rearing. Acting naughty. Whatever her reaction might be in that moment. Something “flips a switch” and there she goes.
You’ve got to train her to be able to flip the switch back. It might not be so easy to figure out what that “switch” needs to be, and it most certainly is going to take some time.
Seems conflicting here. So when she is “kept busy” she has a meltdown.
Describe what is “going to work”. Are you doing any ground work? (asking to move hindquarters, move shoulders et?) Are you just climbing on? The is it straight to trotting circles? Leg yields? Etc etc?
And getting more specific, are you doing something to where she is getting frustrated and feels she has no other mental option to have a meltdown? Maybe, did she give you a correct response to say, a leg yield, but you didn’t release your cue (and release the pressure) until she took a full step, rather than as she was starting to step?
Or, maybe did you give her the leg cue, and she doesn’t understand what you want, so you increased the pressure of the cue, and she still doesn’t understand and is now getting frustrated that the pressure was increased and then she has the mental meltdown?
Totally making random guesses here without seeing a video, without seeing a ride, but there is a breakdown in communication somewhere that is causing her to literally lose her mind about it.
And it probably is a bit of a bad habit by now, so maybe that’s why the meltdown happens when she decides she is done. A bit like a spoiled human child. When they learn a meltdown gets them want they want, they’re going to have a meltdown every hour.
So I realize I haven’t done much except ask a zillion questions … but her mind needs some work. You have to figure out what is creating the trigger in the first place. And then when she hits that trigger, what can you do to bring her back quickly and get her out of the reacting side of her brain, and back to thinking again.
Do you have any trainers around you who are VERY good with groundwork? Someone whose horses practically follow them around like a puppy down because they are so in tune to what the handler is asking them to do, even though it looks like the handler is doing absolutely nothing?
I’m super fortunate to have someone like that less than 2 hours from me, and also made it a point to get to two other excellent horsemanship clinicians this year, and it’s really, really changed the way I think about things. A lot. And really starts to make you think about how the horse is thinking. If you can capture that MIND, you’ve got it all. The mind controls the body.
And I disagree with the theory that you need to have the horse “blow off steam” if they have too much energy. Because really, what is that doing??? And horse is practically made of muscle. You aren’t going to make their muscles tired. Plus … it’s not their muscles that need to focus. It’s the mind. So instead of letting them race around the roundpen like a fool (which will only stimulate the reacting side of their brain even worse), all you might need to do is 5 minutes of some body control. Very, very basics. Walk when you walk. Stop when you stop. Move the hindquarters. Back up. Move the shoulders.
You aren’t giving their body a workout when you do this, but their body doesn’t need the workout. You need to focus their MIND. Once again, control the mind, and you’ve got the body to go along with it.
Depends on the horse, bigtime. While I agree that in an ideal world, the horse will focus no matter how much gas in the tank he’s got, the reality is that trying to ride this out can be VERY dangerous. I also disagree with this on a young horse - you have to set them up for success and sometimes 10 minutes of moving at whatever speed they want (don’t goose them to yahoo around, but if that’s what they choose fine) sets that up much better than trying to force an issue on a horse that is not mentally ready for it. Note that this is a limited time frame. If the horse is still being silly after having 10 minutes of “me” time, then it’s solely a training issue - I agree.
^^This especially when the ground is frozen and they don’t get a chance to do this in turnout at their leisure.
What about exploring a training structure like what Warwick Schiller has?
His focus is on building relationships and observing where the horse is today. Use this time for laying a solid groundwork and relationship foundation. Breath a little and reduce the pressure on both of you.
The vet was out yesterday on an unrelated matter and we talked a bit about my mare. Decided to re-treat her for Lyme again as a first step. I did a course of minocycline last spring when I couldn’t canter without a rodeo and it was like a lightbulb went off one day. Since the symptoms (the rodeo!) are the same, I’m going to treat the same and hope it works as well as last time. I mean, let’s imagine she has achey joints (??) from Lyme and then the cold and frozen ground? I guess that could make sense. The numbers from her Lyme test are in that gray area that could be indicative of chronic Lyme but were not a clear positive.
The mini is back with the other ponies. It was a week-long experiment. No drama in returning them to their usual spots. She’s been on magnesium for years, and currently on Via-Calm as well.
Disagree. Doesn’t matter. You can engage their mind at a simple walk. Doesn’t matter if the ground is frozen. It’s not about making the horse motor around you and be dripping with sweat. You don’t need to warm up their muscles. Their muscles have nothing to do with it. You can be asking for the horse’s mind the minute you walk up to them with a halter in your hand. It’s your subtle body cues. The subtle release of pressure. That is how you learn to communicate with the horse.
Will you achieve this on a horse the first time who is used to the “other” methods and/or has long-term bad habits? Of course not. That’s not realistic. But everyone can be 1% better every day. Just a small bit. And you build on that. And work toward being better.
Young horses are the MOST CRITICAL. If you are training them from a young age that they get to blast around on the lunge line however they want for 10 minutes, then that’s what you are training them to be acceptable.
Why would you ever let a young horse do what they want?? You have zero control and then they are paying zero attention to you. That’s a huge red flag to me and a sure way to set the ride up for failure, and training these bad habits into the horse in the process. Training starts the instant your horse sets eyes on you as you walk into the pen/stall with the halter in your hands. You set the ride up for success by getting the horse’s mind on you before you ever go to put your foot in the stirrup.
This winter I have been making it a priority to do 5-10 minutes of ground work with each of my horses about once a week (repeated blizzards have put a bit of a damper on this). I don’t have a barn. I sure don’t have an indoor arena. I have frozen icy snowy ground, and lately, below zero temps. Doesn’t matter. I can still put on a halter and ask the horse to walk when I walk. Stop when I stop. Move their hindquarters over when I ask. Yield shoulders. Etc. Etc. And we’re doing no faster than a walk. The speed doesn’t matter because I’m not working on their body. I’m working on engaging their mind and getting their focus and attention on me. So I can do something as subtle as lift my hand toward their neck (while I am 3 feet away from them) and they move their neck/shoulders away from me in response.
Imagine the great benefit of doing those same things with a young horse, months before you even go to put the first ride on them. Man, how in tune and responsive they are to you! That is how you set up for success. Not just letting them gas around for 10 minutes willy nilly. Nope.
If you’re just walking a horse that has a ton of gas in the tank, in hand, on crappy ground - you’re not likely to have any issues. Even walking that same horse, on the ground, on great footing - not likely to have any issues.
But if that’s what you’re gauging your training success on, be my guest. We’re talking here about something totally different.
If you’ve never had a young horse, or a fresh horse, make a mistake (bucking, spooking at nothing, bolting) that could have been prevented by a little sweat - then you’re a greater trainer than I, and I bow to you.
My program works just fine, but I don’t expect my 5 year old to be mistake free. I can tell when she’s “up” and no amount of walking her around the arena will make it better. Will she be more focused, at the walk? Sure. Translating that to “now let’s canter without being a moron” is not as simple as you describe, particularly when the turnout footing is bad and she can’t rip around on her free time.
When she’s 8-9-10 I will have different expectations of her. Right now? Nope, she’s a baby. She needs to get the willies out so we can have a reasonable conversation that isn’t constantly “stop it, stop that, don’t do that” all because she’s fresh.
Again, if you’ve never had a young horse (or any horse) make a mistake that could have been prevented by them being a little less fresh, you’re the master and I bow to you.
I didn’t say that a horse isn’t going to make a mistake. Of course horses make mistakes. And it’s okay because that is how they learn. You can’t micromanage them. They have to learn to at least TRY to find the correct answer because that is where they will find the release of pressure. Of course they won’t get it right all the time or immediately. It’s part of the learning process. So long as they try.
Doesn’t matter if they are a baby. Or a 13 year old horse. Age is just a number.
You’re missing the point. It’s not about making the horse sweat. When you make them sweat, all you are doing is exercising their body and getting their body more in shape, so then you have to work them harder and longer next time. And if anything, you might potentially be making it worse because the more they goof around, the more the reactive side of their brain is stimulated. (and not the thinking/learning side)
When a horse spooks, WHAT spooks? It’s not their body. It’s not their muscles. It’s the thought process in their mind. The trigger was flipped to the reactive side of their brain that is responsible for fight or flight. They are thinking they need to run before they are killed. That is their survival instinct that goes through their brain. In order to flip the switch in their brain back to thinking (as quickly as you can), or to possibly prevent the spook in the first place, you have to have their mind. Every horse is different and that trigger switch is different. And not saying it’s always easy to figure all that out … but that’s the horse’s perspective whenever they spook, rear, bolt, etc. Their mind is reacting and they think that is the only way they can keep themselves safe.
You can go run a horse for 30 miles and make them dead tired … and they could still spook at the end of it. Because if that trigger flips again in their brain, their body will respond accordingly based on the fight or flight reaction. And it won’t matter how physically tired their muscles are. And it does not matter how old they are, baby or aged.
If anything, it’s much easier when they are a baby because they are a clean slate. They don’t have the bad habits that an older horse could have. Perhaps you keep the sessions shorter than an old horse. Fine. That just depends on the horse. “Toddlers” have a shorter attention span usually, which is fine. But they are perfectly capable of learning right from day one.
These simple principles are the same whether you are on the ground or in the saddle.
I can’t stand it when horses are total yahoos on the longe or if I’m working them in a round pen. And I have had ones that would check out and yahoo a lot, and it took work getting them to stay focused on the ground. They can blow off steam on their own time. Those horses are a PITA for vet exams and to do any actual training with on the ground because they learn it’s play time. No, not play time.
It is amazing how quiet a horse can get when you work on their anxiety by getting their focus and putting their walnut brains to work for a little bit. High energy is one thing. They might still be fresh. But they learn to let go of triggers not stack them so you don’t get all the explosions. I used to be a “ride it out” rider and am not anymore and so I learned other tools that don’t involve them being yahoos when I’m asking them to work. You can also replicate some of the movements when you first get on if the anxiety rises again to help them reset their nervous system and focus and relax (see TRT method reference in a post above as an example).
This might be an unpopular suggestion, but if riding for you and the horse isn’t fun right now, why not work on groundwork and building relationship. It keeps both of you busy doing stuff and keeps both of you interacting with each other without riding (although if you’re more keen on the riding part this isn’t a suitable suggestion).
This is where I disagree. When the line is on, it’s not fun-time. I don’t allow any playing on a line, at all, ever. Four on the floor, mind your manners. My horses fully understand this.
However, especially during winter, they need time to rip around on good footing, which is often in the same area you will do proper “training” in. The footing in the turnouts is often too slick for them to safely get their willies out. So, the line comes off and they’re allowed to do as they please.
I agree. I suggested the same thing upthread when I said check out Warwick Schiller.
Neither of you are enjoying yourselves. Sometimes going back helps you move forward.
I guess the question is why do you feel pressure to ride this horse at this time?
We officially made it through winter, so an update on my mare: we did about a month of minocycline because while her chronic Lyme number was not super high, I had another horse who was symptomatic at a similar #, so it seemed like worth a try. I was busy with work and decided to spend the time I did have to ride to keep my other horse in work and not be stretched thin trying to ride the a second horse that was making me miserable, so she basically had a month off. I also increased her vitamin E and put her on chasteberry and Purina Outlast.
Overall, she is much less reactive in general but cantering is still a problem. Trotting is her usual lack of focus but not as spooky and reactive to every. little. thing. We went for a full lameness evaluation (again) last week to determine if we could find something that is hurting to cause this behavior. Nothing turned up that was suspicious - so we talked about what else could be an issue. They do exclusively sports medicine, but one of the vets has a background in breeding so they did an ultrasound and sure enough, she was in heat despite the non-stop Regumate. She had a speckled follicle and fluid, so we are now awaiting the results of a culture to rule out a uterine infection. I’m thinking it is now time to go to a repro specialist.
She is tentatively scheduled to go to a problem horse trainer in April - we are in agreement that we would evaluate/eliminate physical issues first. At this point she cannot get there soon enough.
I only read your first post but I would not waste a lot of time and money on a horse you don’t seem to enjoy riding for most of the year. I really dislike most mares to begin with so I would just sell her and look for something that you can look forward to riding every day.
OP, please keep updating us…following the journey provides those of us not personally involved with valuable info for our own benefit should we encounter similar issues. And thanks for sharing the vet work and the (excellent) decision to send her out to a Pro next month. Smart thing to do.
