I would recommend contacting Ronda Stavinsky with sBs. She’s really helpful
https://www.sbsnet.be/en/file/subscriptionsbsfoalsandhorsespdf
Thank you so much! You are so knowledgeable! I’ll probably try to do a little cram research first so I don’t sound so stupid
You don’t think she will get annoyed if I call with questions?
Do you know if there is a way to view it in English?
Sorry! Try this link for English: https://www.sbsnet.be/en
Otherwise, click on the little globe icon that says FR next to the SBS logo in the top left corner and then click on “EN.”
Thank you so very much! Haha.
Ronda is extremely nice and knowledgable and I am sure she would be happy to answer your questions. She is very responsive via phone and email and great to work with.
Outside the registration questions, I’d recommend doign some research on Coeur d’Amour offspring. You can go to the USEF website and search horses by sire and then click through and see the results. I know many of his offspring are younger but it looks like he has some that are out eventing and doing dressage. I didn’t have time to go through them all but I’d look and try and get an idea of how many are out and about with amateur riders and how many are doing the hunters successfully. Watching his videos, he looks like a nice eventing type stallion but he doesn’t jump like a hunter to me. You mention being interested in the hunters and the jumpers, so I’d take that under consideration. You’ve found video of the dam’s other foal, which is great, so I’d also go digging for some video of the stallion’s other offspring and use that information as well. I’m not very familiar with this stallion or I’d try and steer you to some. If I have more time later I’ll see if I can do some searches for you if you can’t find anything. I’ve done a lot of digging like this when choosing stallions for my mares and looking at purchasing young horses.
Something else to consider - do you board or keep horses at home? If you board, I’d also do research on your options for keeping a foal. Many “regular” boarding barns are, in my opinion, not appropriate for a foal to grow up and I have a couple of friends that have really struggled with that with foals they bought. I keep mine nearly two hours away from me because that’s the best place for them. If you go over to the Sport Horse Breeding Forum you can find some discussions there about people having to search pretty hard to find places to keep their babies and it can really depend on the part of the country you are in.
You might also post this in the Breeding forum to find out what, in general, the sire AND dam lines are known for. Clearly, the dam, the sire, and the half brother, all have great jumping form that would be totally suitable for Hunters. That’s easy to see in pictures. What you can’t see is the mental aspect. Are they generally hotter horses who might struggle with the need to be quieter/more cadenced in the Hunter ring? Or are they easy going and can put in a Hunter round OR turn up some speed for Jumpers?
What level of Hunters and Jumpers do you aspire to with whomever you end up getting?
Bear in mind that an anxiety behavior (like cribbing) may not come on for several years. I took my really nice Black Minnaloushe OTTB mare from the track at the end of her 4-y-o racing season where she didn’t display any overt behaviors.
When I moved her to a boarding situation and daily turnout in a mare herd, that pushed the OCD lever somehow and she started head-bobbing about six months later at age 5. Another year or so later and I relocated to the mid-South and that move stressed her into full-blown cribbing within a few months. Thankfully the barn owner didn’t mind. She cribbed relentlessly despite all sorts of tweaks to her care until I lost her at age 16 to uncontrollable cellulitis a few years ago.
So the seller may tell you the truth as they know it, but there’s no guarantee it won’t emerge later.
The mare is just 7, so it’s still possible cribbing just hasn’t been triggered
BUT, keep in mind, there’s her dam, and there’s the whole sire side for the filly.
What I don’t know, haven’t ever run across anything in the cribbing research I’ve done, is whether it’s suspected to be a heterozygous trait, or homozygous. It may be that heterozygous takes more to start, and is easier to resolve, and homozygous means easier to start and harder to resolve. That’s just a thought.
I don’t care about registration and I think cribbing is related to the stress in the way they are managed ( housed)( yes I had a dedicated cribber) ---- so I would take her in a minute as she is just lovely !
Hope it works out for the OP.
Cribbing is genetic (pretty well proven) that does need a trigger for it. Sometimes the trigger is small, sometimes it takes quite a lot. There’s no way to say you can 100% prevent triggering it, since some horses are sensitive enough, internalize stress enough, worry about all the little things, that you can’t guarantee, barring, maybe, never doing anything with the horse but feed/vet/farrier care.
If this was a colt, the whole approva/registration would be a non-starter. But IMHO, fillies who CAN be registered, and approved somewhere, have a much better chance at a more useful life if they can no longer be ridden.
My one big regret about my old WB gelding is that he wasn’t a she, since his riding days were over by around 11/12. But then, his breeder wouldn’t have sold him, I don’t think, so there’s that…
I kinda don’t care. I bought my 3 yo as a weanling in the same situation as the OP: liked her from picture and then video sent by the seller, but in my case the seller wasn’t sure the filly would be registerable. I called the registry and confirmed she could be, and I can’t say for sure if it would have impacted my decision to buy her. Granted, she wasn’t asking $15k, or even $10k. It makes a difference depending on your goals. My perfect pony is grade and my donkeys have papers soooo
That would be great! I will definitely reach out. Y’all are so helpful!
As far as the Sire, that’s a good idea to try the USEF site. I have been researching him some, and while he’s clearly a very talented horse, I also see him as more of a jumper, eventing, dressage type, but I think he has a nice form over fences and like that he is able to come back and collect nicely throughout the course. It is funny because, while I totally agree that the registration is certainly a relevant factor for this filly and considering her as an investment, I wouldn’t be interested in her if it wasn’t for the TB mom. That might be an unpopular opinion from a breeding perspective, but the mom is a nice mover and seems to have contributed the hunter potential I am seeing in the foal. Of course, I have not met them yet, but from the videos I have received, both the momma and filly seem to have nice temperaments, which is definitely what I am looking for.
My TB never raced, so that may be a factor, but he has a great temperament and is a hunter through and through. I also like that she has a refined look and pretty face, which is more like the mom.
Generally, I would think he’s sought after for eventing, dressage, etc., because he’s definitely not a hunter, but just from apparent natural ability, the filly is more up my alley.
I never really thought about how complex breeding is and how much goes into it, but it’s interesting haha.
I am considering do an embryo transfer and having a surrogate carry my mare’s foal, so I totally get the researching baby daddies aspect of it. It definitely is important for breeding. I think it is a little less off-putting to me because it is her natural talent and attributes that really caught my eye to begin with.
I was trying to look through some of the Macho Uno offspring and haven’t really had a lot of time to get into it because a lot of what you find is race records and clips, but it did seem that he produced some nice movers - and I guess some cribbers too haha.
I lease a barndo and property and have the horses right through the living room door, which is definitely nice and makes it so that I can be very hands-on with handling the foal.
In my mind, 10k for a nice hunter prospect is pretty reasonable. The registration will be a deciding factor for sure. Maybe the market is different elsewhere, but of course, it is also convenient that she is relatively local. I have definitely seen nice foals advertised in that 10 to 15 price range that are also nice, but transportation, etc. has to be factored in as well. I’ve seen some cute babies in Canada, but it’s more involved to get them down here, and this heat is brutal if you aren’t used to it haha
I was thinking the same thing about geldings with some of the earlier posts haha.
That is true about the filly being local. By the time you have to travel to look at a horse and then transportation costs - it can really add up. Plus farm sitters (If applicable) and using vacation time. Within a day trip driving distance is a big plus.
Even if you already own a nice mare, and have incredible luck, it’s not likely that you will be able to breed a foal via embryo transfer for $10k. (And of course there are so many expensive and terrible things that can go wrong!) This filly is very attractive, and I do think you will likely be able to register her somewhere, even if she doesn’t get premium/main mare book etc. So if you are looking primarily for a riding prospect I would keep that in mind too.
Aww. Thank you! It is not so much an either / or thing. I got my mare as a 4 month old, and she is 22 this year. I lost three of my childhood horses within the last year. One was my first horse, and I still wish I would have thought about it and gotten a foal out of her to still be able to have a part of her. If it all works out, it would be a 2025 foal. That theoretical baby will hopefully be wonderful and talented, but it will be cherished forever regardless. There are a lot of variables up in the air with that, but the sentimental value of that investment is worth it to me.
Rhianna, or whoever I end up with, would be my up-and-coming show horse for now, and God willing, she will have another little one to be besties with in a couple years.
Getting an embryo 22 year old maiden mare will potentially be a major challenge. Be prepared to spend a lot of money/time there if it is something you are looking to pursue.
I dabble in breeding jumpers-- while there are certainly many horses that come from “unconventional” bloodlines for the discipline, it’s such a gamble anyways that I prefer to increase my odds and focus on horses from proven bloodlines. If I were buying a young horse for today’s sport, I would not be looking at one by a stallion not known for producing hunters, nor out of a TB mare (as much as I love TBs, and have had incredible TBs/crosses). Just not where the sport is going.
I have a Macho Uno offspring. He is a total hunter type in his movement and jump. He has a phenomenal canter and a 10+ jump. He’s quirky - but I chalk that up mostly to physical and mental baggage from the track. He doesn’t have the best feet and he does crib. These are crappy screen grabs, but this is how he jumps every single jump.