Hello! This is my first post, though I have been “lurking” on the boards for quite some time in the hopes that I might find some answers. I’m having a terrible time with my girl, so I’ll try to give the background as concisely but completely as possible.
She is a 19 year old TB/Paint. I have owned her for 9 1/2 years. She was born in Colorado and never left the state until 2 years after I bought her, when we moved to southern California. After another 2 years we went back to Colorado, and after 4 years, we are back in the same area of SoCal. Nearly immediately upon moving back here the second time, she began to have issues. She was used to eating a mixture of grass and alfalfa in Colorado. She refused to eat the Bermuda hay that the barn here in SD offered, so we switched her to straight alfalfa, which she picked at. Her manure was clumpy and had a foul odor, and she seemed tender in her belly. The vet felt that due to the stress of moving, she may have developed ulcers. We treated for ulcers for 6 weeks, in addition to adding a supplement to help with potential hind gut problems, called Allay (made by Adeptus). We also switched her to Orchard grass hay, which she ate readily. After seeing very little improvement, we did lab work, running blood and a fecal test as well as a diarrhea PCR. Everything came back fairly normal, though her eosinophil count was high and her proteins were a little low. She began to develop liquid, projectile diarrhea. She also was developing runny eyes. At the suggestion of our vet, we took her to see an internal medicine specialist at the equine hospital. She did an abdominal ultrasound, chest and abdominal X-rays, and ran more fecal tests. My mares small intestine was very inflamed and hyper motile. The internist did see a few small spots on the lung, so said that she could not rule out lymphosarcoma, but that my horse just didn’t quite fit the bill, as she really hadn’t lost a significant amount of weight, and was still eating well and not lethargic. She said due to the elevated eosinophil count, it was likely a food allergy. We switched her (slowly) to a timothy hay and 1/4 inch timothy pellet diet, and put her on high dose hydroxyzine. Still no significant improvement. Her manure ranges from clumpy to pure liquid and theres no real rhyme or reason. Sometimes it varies from week to week, sometimes it varies from hour to hour. We ended up changing barns, so she has gone from a place in the riverbed next to the golf course, to a place out in the mountains. Within a day her runny eyes had cleared, and have remained clear. Her manure is unchanged, which leads me to believe it’s not allergy related. The other persistent symptom is that every time she passes gas, fecal liquid comes out. Doesn’t appear to be bloody, but very foul-smelling. I have tried probiotics, Allay (which is a prebiotic, antacid, has magnesium), pepto bismol, nearly everything.
She is now eating very expensive timothy hay, which is what she ate in Colorado. I don’t think it is allergies, it has been 6 months since she came to SoCal so she has more than settled in, and I really don’t believe it is cancer, because she still has not dropped a significant amount of weight. The vet said I could do light riding, but under saddle she is very slow and resistant to upward transitions, which is very abnormal for her. She’s usually quite hot.
I apologize for the novel, but I am going crazy. Both my vet and the internist don’t seem to have any more ideas, other than doing surgery and taking intestinal biopsies. I can’t do that to her, or to my wallet. She seems like she feels fine, although I’m sure she feels worse than she looks. And I feel like a terrible mom, having to constantly scrub manure off her hind legs and lady parts. And of course her legs are all white. Any suggestions anyone has will be greatly appreciated. Thank you!
Just a load of Jingles & AO for your mare and you during this horrific period ~
no advice ``` just Jingles & AO for your mare and you during this horrific medical mystery ~
The gastrointestinal problems coupled with lethargy and changes in appetite might suggest Adrenal issues. My event horse died of an Adrenal tumor which presented with lethargy and diarrhea. I also suffer from Adrenal disease and it was very difficult to get a diagnosis. As far as your mare, here is an article I found. You might want to bounce it off of your vet since you’ve ruled out so many things. Scroll down to the section that says “Adrenocortical Insufficiency in Adult Horses.”
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3073730/
I hope you can find some answers soon! Jingles.
I had a pony once with chronic watery foul smelling manure. He was other wise fine, bright eyed and kept good weight. Turns out he was very VERY sensitive to sand. Any grazing whatsoever on even slightly sandy soil resulted in explosive watery foul manure.
Might be an obvious question, but have you discussed the presence of worms or parasites of any kind with your vet?
Perhaps it is worth treating her for potential hindgut ulcers/hindgut acidosis. A trial on Equishure would be a simple way to start, although sucralfate or a low fiber diet may be needed if she has HG ulcers.
Just throwing that out there, particularly due to the foul odor of her manure. Good luck.
I agree with the pp poster that she may be very sensitive to sand.
Also have you checked for cushings? That was the only symptom my gelding had for a few years before developing full blown cushings
The abdominal ultrasound and x-rays should have picked up sand.
Ah, I forgot to mention that we did check her for sand on the X-rays, and saw none. We also checked her manure for it and didn’t find any, but put her on psyllium just to be safe. She also eats out of a wood slow grazer, so she constantly has hay in front of her and doesn’t eat it off the ground. I’m not saying its not sand, but I would be quite surprised.
I have not heard of equishure, so I’m going to look into that right now. Succeed has been mentioned, is there a stark difference between the two?
We have done multiple fecal tests searching for parasites, and have dewormed despite finding none.
Also thought I’d mention, she seems just not quite right in her hind end as well. I cannot discern any lameness, but she is cross-cantering on the lunge line, and seems more unwilling to reach under herself, especially at the trot. Now this is probably completely unrelated to the digestive issues, and a result of her getting older, but I thought I’d bring it up just in case. I want to have the chiropractor come out and take a look, but right now I need to concentrate my finances on the more pressing digestive issues. Thanks again!
How long ago did you “switch barns”? Golf courses use LOTS of fertilizers/weed killer/poison sprays - maybe she is super sentitive and still working on getting that out of her system?
Her symptoms sound very much like human Crohn’s disease, which is sometimes treated with steroids to get an attack under control. Have any of your vets recommended this?
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I wonder if this might be bacterial overgrowth of the small intestine? Or some other persistent imbalance in gut bacteria.
What probiotics have you used?
If you’re thinking about using Succeed–and it’s worth a shot, I’d think–go with the Succeed challenge. You buy two months through the Succeed people, complete a little journal thing weekly (easy!) and if you’re not happy at the end of the two months, they give you your money back.
Succeed and Equishure have two completely different routes of attack. Succeed tries to use all the back ways, and through experiences that myself and may of the customers I’ve worked with have had, it doesn’t work. Equishure’s plan of attack is basically straight down the middle (or down the intestines as it would seem).
ETA: ProBios also lacks enough pre and pro biotics to be of any use for a horse that is actually in need.
Lots of great thoughts and suggestions:)
You might keep an open mind on the Succeed and Equishure.
It may depend on the horse and its issues, as to which works best.
I have a mid-20’s gelding with EMS, hind gut ulcers and lipomas.
The Equishure didn’t do a thing to stop his colics (12 in nine months).
The Succeed did. That was two years ago, I tried taking him off Succeed last Fall and he went into mild colic after about 48 hours of being off the Succeed. That means he stays on Succeed for the rest of his life.
Many jingles to you:)
Protozoal infection? I’ve had really good luck using metronizadole on three different cases of chronic squirts over two decades. (Though admittedly yours sounds far more severe than anything I’ve dealt with. Just thought I’d throw it out there, as it’s a pretty cheap experiment.)
Heads up on the Equishure (or RiteTrac):
I tried RiteTrac on my mare with persistent cow patties. Thought–hey! this gets hind gut AND stomach…what can go wrong?!
Well, my “I will eat anything” mare wouldn’t TOUCH IT. I don’t think she liked the way it fizzed. Equishure and RiteTrac both fizz.
I got through it by mixing it with oil and syringing it into her, but it was a pretty miserable time. And it didn’t help.
High eosinophil count is often associated with an immune response to parasites or a foreign infection. I’d look at the cause of that gut inflammation more closely.
Also, it is my understanding that there is very little turnout in SD but I assume you had really good turnout in CO. Could confinement and poor grazing be a stress issue for your horse?
I have had horses in New Mexico and they were on Colorado grass and CO/NM alfalfa hay as they lived in the desert (no pasture). Phenomenal condition. Unfortunately, I have YET to meet an east coast bale of hay that is anywhere near the quality of the western bales. And the condition of my horse reflected that when she moved east to several different states. Maybe that’s the case in SoCal and your horse is very sensitive. Unpalatable hay is everywhere and quite common, unfortunately. I currently purchase my own grain and hay in the winter because my “delicate flower” of a gelding can’t keep weight on otherwise. Such is life.
What else are you feeding her?
As far as probiotics, I did use the probios. Should I try a different one? Which one? We did just make the move a couple weeks ago, so if it was related to the golf course I suppose it could take more time. Interestingly, despite all this she has not colicked. (Frantically knocking on wood over here). We have certainly looked into something infectious or bacterial, but to my understanding, it would have been most likely picked up on the diarrhea PCR that we sent to Idexx. I will ask her vet about using metronidazole, since that’s something we use in the small animal world quite often.
As far as the turnout situation, it is not terribly different for her. She was at my parents house in CO, and while they have 3 acres, their fence was not in the best shape, so she was only turned out a few times a week when they were home and could watch her. Otherwise she was in a box stall with a run. Here in San Diego there is virtually NO turnout aside from dirt arenas. However, we lucked out at our new stable because they have 8 50’x100’ grass turnouts that are seeded and irrigated. Unfortunately, I’ve been hesitant to put her out for more than a few minutes at a time, for fear of her aggravating her tummy more, not to mention laminitis.
She was eating Timothy hay free choice, with 1/4 inch Timothy pellets, beet pulp and equine senior. To try and eliminate any food allergy, I took her off the beet pulp and senior. She literally only eats Timothy. She has signs on her stall warning against feeding treats, and the manager of this new barn is quite strict about that sort of thing anyway.
As much as I would like to believe it’s somehow related to the change in food/environment, I’m skeptical. She has spent time in SD before and never had a problem. I love my parents, but they are not really horse people, and I’m not sure they would have noticed this, especially if it was mild. So despite my mom swearing the horse was fine in CO, I have to wonder how much she really saw.
I cannot tell you how much I appreciate all the input and ideas. I definitely have some new directions to try and go in now. I love this horse very much. I spent my teenage years showing my gelding who meant the world to me, and lost him on the colic surgery table. This mare is the first horse I was able to connect with after him.
Poor girl! but the move may help more than you think, it’t not unusual for allergies to alleviate over months rather than weeks, it’s good that she does seem more comfortable since the move.
GI upset can also take months to stabilize & the foul smelling gas/liquid would not be unusual for both parasite & allergy “upset” of the GI system.
You might look online for who’s publishing papers/research & contact that group, either through your vets or just email yourself.
Has she shown any interest in eating manure? her own or other horse’s? (this can provide “new” groups of bacteria to populate her gut & aid in digestion).
she is cross-cantering on the lunge line, and seems more unwilling to reach under herself, especially at the trot. Now this is probably completely unrelated to the digestive issues, and a result of her getting older
I’d not assume this is unrelated to her digestive issues, I suspect she’s fairly uncomfortable; do look around for various Equine Therapists, you may find someone that is less $$$ than the chiro/vet but effective.
Google Right Dorsal Colitis in horses. The most effective treatments have been removal of all hay, feed frequent small meals of a low carb complete or senior feed, sucralfate, and metronidazole. This regiment has to be followed for several months. Lack of being able to feed hay is the most difficult part but the most important. The idea is to reduce bulk in the colon which allows time to heal. A small amount of hand feeding on grass is allowed (5-10 minutes/day max).
Quite frankly, I’m surprised the hospital hasn’t already mentioned RDC as your horse is textbook for it.
Some hay makers use a desiccant on their hay to cure it faster, or in humid weather. That could be what she is allergic to, not the hay itself. Also, have you done a Power Pack dewormer on her? That helped my mare when she got the squirts from encysted strongyles.
