Updated barisone lawsuit 10/29/21 post 851

[Angela_Freda]

@iris2006

MB said on the 911 tapes that he wanted them off the property. I think he went to tell them to leave, he brought the little purple gun to defend himself in case their dog attacked him, and it all went sideways and he ended up shooting LK even though he didn’t go there with that intention

This scenario makes the most sense.

(I think the gun in question is alleged to have been pink?)

[eggbutt]

Well someone is a bit testy aren’t they? Calm down folks. The trial is a bit over 3 months +/- away.

[seahorse]

There is a difference between discussing a shooting and the continuance of relentless harassment, name calling, stalking of one’s personal life and disclosing their personal information on the internet where it turns into a game of who can cause the most misery over and over again to a shooting victim.
So you don’t have to now stalk me and my information, my name is Pam Wildman, I am a 66 year old dressage rider that bought my first dressage horse from the accused shooter and trained with him for a couple of years in NJ and Florida.
I left the accused shooter twice for different reasons, the first time was because he wanted my horse for himself so desperately that he shipped him to Florida without my knowledge or permission.
I had just refused to sign a contract to let him have the horse as a prospect for the Rio games.
The second time I left because I felt he was dishonest in his dealings with me, I saw and stopped him from being brutal to my horse, I saw him being what I felt was brutal to the people closest to him and he frightened me when he time and time again lost his temper.
When I left I was terrified of him and probably was suffering from PTSD from what I had experienced and because I was afraid he would hurt me and would hurt my horse. I pray that by disclosing this information that I don’t become a target.
I left his barn over 4 years before the victim was shot, so I can not and will not speculate about what happened. A fact we can all agree on is the victim was shot and is fortunate to have survived.
So please for the love of all things decent, discuss the case but please please stop victimizing the victim over and over again while hiding behind a screen name.
Thank you,
Pam

[MHM]

@seahorse

There is a difference between discussing a shooting and the continuance of relentless harassment, name calling, stalking of one’s personal life and disclosing their personal information on the internet where it turns into a game of who can cause the most misery over and over again to a shooting victim.
So you don’t have to now stalk me and my information, my name is Pam Wildman, I am a 66 year old dressage rider that bought my first dressage horse from the accused shooter and trained with him for a couple of years in NJ and Florida.
I left the accused shooter twice for different reasons, the first time was because he wanted my horse for himself so desperately that he shipped him to Florida without my knowledge or permission.
I had just refused to sign a contract to let him have the horse as a prospect for the Rio games.
The second time I left because I felt he was dishonest in his dealings with me, I saw and stopped him from being brutal to my horse, I saw him being what I felt was brutal to the people closest to him and he frightened me when he time and time again lost his temper.
When I left I was terrified of him and probably was suffering from PTSD from what I had experienced and because I was afraid he would hurt me and would hurt my horse. I pray that by disclosing this information that I don’t become a target.
I left his barn over 4 years before the victim was shot, so I can not and will not speculate about what happened. A fact we can all agree on is the victim was shot and is fortunate to have survived.
So please for the love of all things decent, discuss the case but please please stop victimizing the victim over and over again while hiding behind a screen name.
Thank you,
Pam

.

[MHM]

@iris2006

MB said on the 911 tapes that he wanted them off the property. I think he went to tell them to leave, he brought the little purple gun to defend himself in case their dog attacked him, and it all went sideways and he ended up shooting LK even though he didn’t go there with that intention.

This sounds very possible. The other motivation could have been to get them to come talk to the Child Protective Service people who were on the property at that time.

[eggbutt]

I appreciate you sharing your experience. Sincere question…what prompted you to return to him after your first negative experience?

[seahorse]

He called me many times and begged me to come back. I gave in.

[Angela_Freda]

Thanks for sharing your experience, a perspective which we have not had in the two years we’ve been discussing the situation.

[trubandloki]

@La-LaPopRider

@trubandloki

I do not describe anyone I like as a POS

If your child, relative, friend or neighbor tried to murder people, (unarmed people, who were sought out by your child/relative/friend/neighbor to be murdered) like them or not, it would make them a POS. IM’s statement, which you quoted, was exactly correct.

I guess this is one place we are different. I would likely not still be friends/friendly with someone who shot me so I might call them a POS, but there would be no confusion that I was no longer wanting a relationship of any kind with them. Same holds true for any friend/family/neighbor who “tried to murder people”.
I might feel different if my friend/family/neighbor was defending themselves and their family, but certainly would not want anything to do with them again if they were simply murderous, which I believe is what you are saying MB was doing here.
Clearly you are far more forgiving than I am.

[CurrentlyHorseless]

@FitzE

This is the precise question I would have were I on the jury. What was this “plan”? Shooting two people in broad daylight while government officials (CPS) were on the property and then…what exactly?

How would anyone end up with her horses? Her property would go to her heirs and assigns, not random people who also boarded at the same facility or the trainer. That’s not how that works.

If you were on the jury, are you saying that this is the precise question you would be trying to answer in order to determine whether he was not guilty by reason of insanity? I’m not following.

The judge will first give the jury instructions on the criterion that must be met for “not guilty by reason of insanity”, correct? I am not a criminal lawyer, but according to how IM described the McNaghton rule, if MB understood he was shooting into a woman’s chest and aiming for a man’s head, and knew that doing that was against the law, he’s not considered “insane” in the legal sense required to be not guilty by reason of insanity. I know nobody believes what IM says just based on his say so — that’s a healthy skepticism — but on this issue he has no reason to make stuff up since anyone can research the McNaghton rule and whether NJ uses it.

So if IM is correct on the McNaghton rule, how does the fact that MB apparently had not thought out what he was going to do with the bodies matter to the jury? In my interest in this case as a non juror, that is the question that I wonder about the most, but that’s as a non juror. Why is that a crucial question for the jury?

[RND]

@seahorse

There is a difference between discussing a shooting and the continuance of relentless harassment, name calling, stalking of one’s personal life and disclosing their personal information on the internet where it turns into a game of who can cause the most misery over and over again to a shooting victim.
So you don’t have to now stalk me and my information, my name is Pam Wildman, I am a 66 year old dressage rider that bought my first dressage horse from the accused shooter and trained with him for a couple of years in NJ and Florida.
I left the accused shooter twice for different reasons, the first time was because he wanted my horse for himself so desperately that he shipped him to Florida without my knowledge or permission.
I had just refused to sign a contract to let him have the horse as a prospect for the Rio games.
The second time I left because I felt he was dishonest in his dealings with me, I saw and stopped him from being brutal to my horse, I saw him being what I felt was brutal to the people closest to him and he frightened me when he time and time again lost his temper.
When I left I was terrified of him and probably was suffering from PTSD from what I had experienced and because I was afraid he would hurt me and would hurt my horse. I pray that by disclosing this information that I don’t become a target.
I left his barn over 4 years before the victim was shot, so I can not and will not speculate about what happened. A fact we can all agree on is the victim was shot and is fortunate to have survived.
So please for the love of all things decent, discuss the case but please please stop victimizing the victim over and over again while hiding behind a screen name.
Thank you,
Pam

Wow, this is certainly interesting. To those who feel that GJ and others from LK’s past will be important to the defense in MB’s trial, do you also feel that someone like seahorse might be important to the prosecution? Why or why not?

[Akogler]

@seahorse

There is a difference between discussing a shooting and the continuance of relentless harassment, name calling, stalking of one’s personal life and disclosing their personal information on the internet where it turns into a game of who can cause the most misery over and over again to a shooting victim.
So you don’t have to now stalk me and my information, my name is Pam Wildman, I am a 66 year old dressage rider that bought my first dressage horse from the accused shooter and trained with him for a couple of years in NJ and Florida.
I left the accused shooter twice for different reasons, the first time was because he wanted my horse for himself so desperately that he shipped him to Florida without my knowledge or permission.
I had just refused to sign a contract to let him have the horse as a prospect for the Rio games.
The second time I left because I felt he was dishonest in his dealings with me, I saw and stopped him from being brutal to my horse, I saw him being what I felt was brutal to the people closest to him and he frightened me when he time and time again lost his temper.
When I left I was terrified of him and probably was suffering from PTSD from what I had experienced and because I was afraid he would hurt me and would hurt my horse. I pray that by disclosing this information that I don’t become a target.
I left his barn over 4 years before the victim was shot, so I can not and will not speculate about what happened. A fact we can all agree on is the victim was shot and is fortunate to have survived.
So please for the love of all things decent, discuss the case but please please stop victimizing the victim over and over again while hiding behind a screen name.
Thank you,
Pam

Hi Pam,

I looked you up on USDF and USEF. Your record there has you competing one horse, Aramis, at first level. You had scores mid 60s, and several scratches.

It strikes me as unlikely that a trainer of Michael Barisones stature would need your horse to go to Rio, or that he needed your first level horse business so badly as to beg you to stay. I see you were also showing in maiden hunter classes as well. Not being critical, but your record might be interpreted as a nice competent novice rider.

I could be totally off base but your testimony does not sound remotely believable to me.

[Knights_Mom]

@CurrentlyHorseless

@FitzE

This is the precise question I would have were I on the jury. What was this “plan”? Shooting two people in broad daylight while government officials (CPS) were on the property and then…what exactly?

How would anyone end up with her horses? Her property would go to her heirs and assigns, not random people who also boarded at the same facility or the trainer. That’s not how that works.

If you were on the jury, are you saying that this is the precise question you would be trying to answer in order to determine whether he was not guilty by reason of insanity? I’m not following.

The judge will first give the jury instructions on the criterion that must be met for “not guilty by reason of insanity”, correct? I am not a criminal lawyer, but according to how IM described the McNaghton rule, if MB understood he was shooting into a woman’s chest and aiming for a man’s head, and knew that doing that was against the law, he’s not considered “insane” in the legal sense required to be not guilty by reason of insanity. I know nobody believes what IM says just based on his say so — that’s a healthy skepticism — but on this issue he has no reason to make stuff up since anyone can research the McNaghton rule and whether NJ uses it.

So if IM is correct on the McNaghton rule, how does the fact that MB apparently had not thought out what he was going to do with the bodies matter to the jury? In my interest in this case as a non juror, that is the question that I wonder about the most, but that’s as a non juror. Why is that a crucial question for the jury?

The M’Naghten rule doesn’t apply and its mention is a ruse and distraction.

I thought we understood this already.

[3PonyFarm]

Was anything stated by the defense how they planned to use insanity and self defense in the trial? The only article I saw was vague, which makes sense in that they would not want to give away their entire strategy.
I was wondering if the insanity was to explain the lack of memory of the event as well as some statements he may have made that may not be in the defendant’s favor. Possibly the self defense would be for the actual shooting itself.
Does this sound plausible?

Again I do not have any any legal knowledge, just guessing.

[Knights_Mom]

@seahorse

There is a difference between discussing a shooting and the continuance of relentless harassment, name calling, stalking of one’s personal life and disclosing their personal information on the internet where it turns into a game of who can cause the most misery over and over again to a shooting victim.
So you don’t have to now stalk me and my information, my name is Pam Wildman, I am a 66 year old dressage rider that bought my first dressage horse from the accused shooter and trained with him for a couple of years in NJ and Florida.
I left the accused shooter twice for different reasons, the first time was because he wanted my horse for himself so desperately that he shipped him to Florida without my knowledge or permission.
I had just refused to sign a contract to let him have the horse as a prospect for the Rio games.
The second time I left because I felt he was dishonest in his dealings with me, I saw and stopped him from being brutal to my horse, I saw him being what I felt was brutal to the people closest to him and he frightened me when he time and time again lost his temper.
When I left I was terrified of him and probably was suffering from PTSD from what I had experienced and because I was afraid he would hurt me and would hurt my horse. I pray that by disclosing this information that I don’t become a target.
I left his barn over 4 years before the victim was shot, so I can not and will not speculate about what happened. A fact we can all agree on is the victim was shot and is fortunate to have survived.
So please for the love of all things decent, discuss the case but please please stop victimizing the victim over and over again while hiding behind a screen name.
Thank you,
Pam

The part you missed is that one of the parties to the event engaged in harassing, lying behavior to people on this board. Multiple members were sent threatening messages attempting to bully them into silence, myself included.

This, along with previous accounts of behavior led people to question the validity of that aggressors story and once again WE, the posters on this board are the subject of negative attention for questioning the truthfulness of that person’s version of events.

And that’s what is going on here, not some version of Mean Girls.

We who have questioned the events as told are not the victimizers but rather we are the victims of this harassing behavior. So yes you can bet your Sweet Grass, we are asking questions and making comments on possibilities.

[DownYonder]

@Akogler

I looked you up on USDF and USEF. Your record there has you competing one horse, Aramis, at first level. You had scores mid 60s, and several scratches.

It strikes me as unlikely that a trainer of Michael Barisones stature would need your horse to go to Rio, or that he needed your first level horse business so badly as to beg you to stay. I see you were also showing in maiden hunter classes as well. Not being critical, but your record might be interpreted as a nice competent novice rider.

I could be totally off base but your testimony does not sound remotely believable to me.

It is entirely possible she did own such a horse but never competed it herself at recognized shows - therefore no USDF/USEF record. And if every word of her story is true - and I have no reason to suspect it is not - it does add credence to previous statements by others regarding MB’s general character (esp. regarding his “temper”).

That said, I still have doubts as to whether the “story” we have heard of the actual incident itself is 100% accurate.

[hut-ho78]

Hi Pam. Lovely horses. Enjoying googling and reading about their success with various riders through the years and your generous contributions to facilities. Thank you for your contributions to equestrian endeavors.

[CurrentlyHorseless]

@iris2006

Sounds like LK (or whoever made this up) has watched too many law dramas on TV. Suddenly MHG will be charged and MB will get reduced charges even though he is the one that shot LK? Amusing.

That’s not how I read that statement by IM at all. I read it to say that IM thinks that if MB “came clean” (was honest) about MHG’s role, that LK might make a different statement at MBs sentencing hearing. There was nothing about MHG being charged or MBs charges being reduced.

[Angela_Freda]

@CurrentlyHorseless

If you were on the jury, are you saying that this is the precise question you would be trying to answer in order to determine whether he was not guilty by reason of insanity? I’m not following

I think answering this question, which so far can’t be done, removes reasonable doubt.

[Brown_Derby]

Let’s not diss horses. @seahorse’s lovely horse was shown quite successfully at PSG by a trainer. Trainer has remained silent about her past involvement with MB’s barn.

Thank you for your refreshing candor @seahorse.