USHJA Amateur Hunter Championships - Thoughts?

[Railbird]

@Tini_Sea_Soldier1

Second, expecting a pro to prep your horse bc you don’t have time? That isn’t how it works for pony finals, so why would you expect the rules to change for adults?

Because I’m not a child. I paid my dues. The rules being made to teach the participants a sense of work ethic and accountability are appropriate for children and patronizing for adults and there’s no similar requirement at any other venue.

@Tini_Sea_Soldier1

We’re all busy humans, and maybe this just isn’t for you based on your schedule, but it’s also nice to see people actually RIDE their horses and not just hop on the pre-prepped robot.

That’s great, but it’s a horse SHOW not a riding competition or mustang breaking competition or any other number of things. If you want to watch someone ride through equine behavioral issues I suggest you go enjoy those venues.

Of the amateurs I show with at the bigger venues, they are all either working a demanding job, have their horses financed by a family member, or are independently wealthy. Having a week long event where the rider has to be there the whole week would skew the population more toward the latter, which is fine. Life ain’t fair, so you’re right- it wouldn’t be for me, but I hate the patronizing commentary that someone should be ashamed for participating in the sport in the way that they can at a given stage of their life because it’s not enough work for someone else’s standards. Let people enjoy things. It’s the low adult hunters not the World Cup qualifiers.

[Tini_Sea_Soldier1]

This is a ridiculous argument. I’m sorry but it is.
You’ve paid your dues so you expect your horse to be set-up perfectly for you so that you can pose and let your horse go around on autopilot? That’s sad.

I go to bigger venues and yes, it’s definitely the checkbook olympics, but expecting the whole horse show to cater to your busy schedule is a bit much.

There are plenty of amateurs bopping around the horse show working from their laptops on any given Wednesday-Friday. They’re not independently wealthy and they make it work. Me being one of them. It takes some creative Zoom calls in cars or quiet spaces, but that’s part of the struggle and that’s life.

Furthermore, you act like pony parents are just all stay-at-home parents. Spoiler alert: They are not. So those parents are making sacrifices and not expecting the show to adjust to their travel plans or work calendar either. It just is what it is.

Quite frankly, if I’m going to drag my horse around for a finals, I’d prefer it be a week-long event, not a quick and dirty weekend.

[Tha_Ridge]

@Tini_Sea_Soldier1

You’ve paid your dues so you expect your horse to be set-up perfectly for you so that you can pose and let your horse go around on autopilot? That’s sad.

Yes, if that’s what @Railbird (whose horsemanship credentials outrank about 95 percent of us, in fact) wants, that’s what she can expect.

@Tini_Sea_Soldier1

I go to bigger venues and yes, it’s definitely the checkbook olympics, but expecting the whole horse show to cater to your busy schedule is a bit much.

So is this a whole horse show or is it a special championship catering to amateurs? You tried to rail on me for going off-topic earlier, so what gives?

@Tini_Sea_Soldier1

Quite frankly, if I’m going to drag my horse around for a finals, I’d prefer it be a week-long event, not a quick and dirty weekend.

Did anyone suggest otherwise? The only thing that’s been said here is that applying the Pony Finals no pro rule is absolutely not relevant, given the very different circumstances of adult amateurs as a whole. And don’t bring pony parents into this — it’s a straw man argument.

[Railbird]

I don’t expect anyone to cater to me, I’m just saying it’s a silly rule to enact when it’s not happening at any other venue for the same divisions. @Pennywell_Bay suggested making the event set up such that professionals can’t ride the horses for the duration, I expressed reasons why that wouldn’t be great for me and many others who would compete, she said the 12 hour rule sounds legit, and a discussion ensued of several possible solutions. All totally fair and reasonable. Then you said that because they do it (no one else allowed to ride the pony) at pony finals they should do it at adult finals and insinuated my concerns about juggling my job, parenting, and my physical limitations equated to “hopping on a pre-prepped robot” which is offensive and that you enjoy seeing people “actually RIDE” so therefore you support a rule that’s inconvenient and impractical to many participants. So realistically you are the only person who is expecting the horse show to change based off their personal preferences here, in that you’re arguing in favor of a rule that no one is suggesting because you dislike people whose trainers help prepare their horses.

At no point have I said anything about pony moms at pony finals. I don’t know where that’s coming from. I’m also one of the amateurs at the show during the week on my laptop in the car and pacing around on the phone but I’m much less inclined to ship halfway across the country for a whole week if my kid or work or ole broken back having an issue means I can’t take a day away from the show or my horse won’t get ridden.

It would be something else entirely if that was ever something that happened in amateur hunter competitions and I was advocating for the norm to be changed to make my life easier. That would be absurd. I’m just saying making things harder for the sake of the low adult hunters proving to the masses that they don’t need help is silly.

[Railbird]

@Tha_Ridge

Yes, if that’s what @Railbird (whose horsemanship credentials outrank about 95 percent of us, in fact) wants, that’s what she can expect.

Nah girl I just need to ensure the staff can handle everything so I don’t have to learn how to ride or take care of a horse and can just collect ribbons and get back to my conference calls and spa treatments. You got the wrong one.

[SonnysMom]

I know somebody that probably would love a show like this. As a doctor that is a hospitalist it is a bit hard to work from her laptop.
Pony kids are generally on summer break for Pony Finals. Since the parents don’t show they may not need to be available for all the qualifying classes that the ammie rider would need to be riding for. The ammie rider is one person. For children the parents don’t “have” to go to the show with the child, child could go to qualifying shows with trainer or a friend of the family, and technically there may be 2 parents that can split time to go to qualifying shows so maybe neither parent has to take off excessive amounts to qualify the child. Or maybe one parent is a stay at home parent. I would think that is slightly less likely that an ammie is a stay at home individual.

[Railbird]

Perhaps that needed more context: That was as stated to me by an R judge friend while I was frustrated with how a day went for me. From the judges booth, they’re judging the horses and rounds in front of them, not what you did or didn’t do to arrive there, and they’re well within their rights to say my trip of a lifetime on that horse was an 85 and landed me in 4th place behind people who didn’t ride as well but ended up ahead because they started out with a nicer horse. You can do a fabulous job settling down a fresh horse who has a meltdown at the far end of the ring and be the best rider in the class but that’s still not a winner, either. It sucks sometimes but there’s no bonus points for anything you did outside the ring on the judges card and the best rider doesn’t always win.

[CuriosoJorge]

@Tini_Sea_Soldier1

You’ve paid your dues so you expect your horse to be set-up perfectly for you so that you can pose and let your horse go around on autopilot? That’s sad.

Your word choice is offensive, but yes. I don’t speak for Railbird, but many of us have enough experience, have paid enough dues (both literal and figurative), and have worked hard enough at both career and horses to think this is totally acceptable.

I am 100% a dyed in the wool horseman. I had to be. That doesn’t mean I don’t avail myself of services when they’re available.

[Midge]

@Tha_Ridge

The baby greens usually run on Wednesday/Thursday and the low adults are usually Friday or run through the weekend. I’m very lucky to have a super flexible life situation in general, but if I want to show both horses, I have to be at the show Wednesday-Sunday, since there’s usually nothing for the green horse to show in on the weekends. (Zone 4 and a few others don’t have this cross-entry rule, by the way.)

Ah. When you said you wanted to show against amateurs instead of having to do the open division, I thought that is what you wanted. To show against amateurs. Since you didn’t mention the time schedule, I didn’t know that was your concern.

[Midge]

@CuriosoJorge

@Tini_Sea_Soldier1

You’ve paid your dues so you expect your horse to be set-up perfectly for you so that you can pose and let your horse go around on autopilot? That’s sad.

Your word choice is offensive, but yes. I don’t speak for Railbird, but many of us have enough experience, have paid enough dues (both literal and figurative), and have worked hard enough at both career and horses to think this is totally acceptable.

I am 100% a dyed in the wool horseman. I had to be. That doesn’t mean I don’t avail myself of services when they’re available.

Years ago, I remember struggling with my hard greenie and at one point my trainer said, “Well, she has made you a better rider.” I said, “I’m 45 years old. I don’t want to be a better rider. I want to have fun!”

[fivestrideline]

@Railbird

It sucks sometimes but there’s no bonus points for anything you did outside the ring on the judges card and the best rider doesn’t always win.

Not to continue the derail but THIS.

I think people - specifically those of us who have to make it work with something green/quirky/less nice for whatever reason - forget that these classes are judged on the horse and the 2 minutes you’re in the ring. It doesn’t matter if you were able to get Sir Spooky over the green rails of death if someone else clocked around more smoothly. Part of the deal is making things look easy and the riding look invisible - that’s what makes the hunters so dang hard, actually.

The best HORSE with the best ROUND wins. If we want to be judged on ourselves, there are other rings to do that in, but we are talking about Amateur Hunters here.

[Railbird]

Yes I can tell some stories about my gritty DIY/ working student days that would put hair on your chest and what I have to show for it is a 10 year NA chip, falling down because picking up a laundry basket was too ambitious this morning, and a job and family that are my priorities over a hobby I do to make my life whole, not as my whole life. Once upon a time I looked down on this version of me, too. I was very successful with a free horse I got from a middle aged lady who could only really ride at shows and didn’t have the capacity to manage his issues and I remember thinking that was so gross to only ride at a show on a horse someone else did the day to day with. And here I am sending one of my horses to get sold this week because I really can’t ride much and he needs someone who can do the day to day with him. Big old helping of humble pie for me. We aren’t curing cancer or representing the USET. If the horses are taken care of and the bills are paid, doing this to have fun and letting it be easy is valid. At least in my book, but clearly not everyone’s.

[findeight]

Don’t forget its HUNTERS not jumpers or Eq. The highest quality horse thats a 10 mover has an advantage just trotting into the ring, it’s theirs to loose. That is true in all subjectively judged disciplines and took me decades to accept.

They can make mistakes for sure but will still get a better score than a more average entry with some minor mistakes thats just not as polished and/or as good a mover.

My trip of a lifetime in the 3’ Adults at an A was an 85 that was not enough to get me into the second round of a Classic, needed an 87. IIRC eventual Classic winner was a 93.

Hunters is tough. Very much need to think of personal bests not who beat you. That 85 I got concluded with a big vertical oxer oxer line around to a stone wall (with wishing well standards) set on the dreaded diagonal away from the out gate. I nailed that SOB. That was my Classic victory.

[Tha_Ridge]

It can be both? Only on COTH do people live in this delulu state of black and white. I can want to show in the 2’6" against amateurs (as I am one) AND not have to live at the horse show Wednesday-Sunday in order to enjoy both of my horses.

[wanderlust]

Not to make things complicated but I wonder if there is some way to split up the 2’6 division the way it’s done in eventing, with “horse” and “rider” sections. Riders doing over the height limit with another horse could be restricted to what is essentially a green horse split at the lower level.

[fivestrideline]

Not unless we re-write the rulebook for ALL the hunters. I’m not against an official non-pro (easiest to implement IMO), or horse and rider division - but we see how complicated that gets in eventing (much complaining to be heard about it).

I’m sure a lot of this will come out in the wash during the first couple of years. I just hope the Finals survive and are able to adjust to become a really fun destination event! Again, I’m 100% sure it will be the 2’6" Olympics and a money contest at a certain point, but the fun of getting to go and get nice pictures is worth it to plenty of us regular smucks!

[Tha_Ridge]

@fivestrideline

I just hope the Finals survive and are able to adjust to become a really fun destination event! Again, I’m 100% sure it will be the 2’6" Olympics and a money contest at a certain point, but the fun of getting to go and get nice pictures is worth it to plenty of us regular smucks!

Agreed — beautiful jumps, nice courses, and a good photographer are 90% of what I’m after these days.

[HipNo34]

@findeight

Hunters is tough. Very much need to think of personal bests not who beat you. That 85 I got concluded with a big vertical oxer oxer line around to a stone wall (with wishing well standards) set on the dreaded diagonal away from the out gate. I nailed that SOB. That was my Classic victory.

Ammy finals are in no danger of me darkening their in-gate any time soon, but I still have to say how much I love this.

My favorite ribbon was no ribbon at all --we just cracked the top ten in a huge class. That show was worth every freaking penny I couldn’t afford as a broke** 20-something.

[Fun_Size]

This is where I’m at. I DIY’d for a long time, and then rode whatever horse I could afford / get my hands on after that. I’ve prided myself on riding whatever was handed to me. Well, at 43, that finally caught up with me, I crashed, I’m (healable but still) injured, I’m taking time off, and I’m not going to do that anymore.

Not that I’d be darkening the door of any adult ammy finals either, way out of what I’m willing to spend right now with a kiddo in his own competitive sports, but if I did, I’d need pro support early in the week because of aforementioned kiddo, and job. The 12 hour rule seems like a fair split, I just need grooming and emotional support day of!

It does sound really cool. There isn’t too much out there for adults jumping smaller.

[Foitin]

It is hard to contemplate all audiences attending these shows. It is more than taking Zoom calls in a car. That’s a joke, could happen any day of any week. Sitting under the tent with a laptop? Maybe a challenge, but doable. Certainly not a struggle. Its having children, a job that requires you to be in an office / hospital 4 days a week, being a caretaker of elderly parents. Its impossible to know what people are doing while they are horseshowing. Just something to keep in mind.