VA: Development in Orange Hunt (Flint Hill Farm)

[Glimmerglass]

It’s sad to see yet another large swath of land being developed (856-parcel) for high-end luxury homes on what is part of the Orange hunt. The upside is that it sounds like the developers are more naturalist here in the outset with the styles, location and size of the homes.

I was struck most by the would-be developer’s comments concerning the hunt and would-be buyers:

Fauquier Times-Democrat 7-12-05 “Flint Hill Farm development will host 21 homes”

excerpt:

“The market for these homes is much more out-of-state purchasers,” Yahn said. “Texas, California, Florida, Connecticut and the European market, especially the English. They can’t fox hunt in England and this is Orange County Hunt territory. We tried to site the houses so that they will have a minimum impact to the Orange County Hunt.”

As for allowing the hunt to continue to cross their lands, Yahn said that decision would be left up to individual landowners.

This came up once before - is there really an interest by British hunters to migrate to Virginia to continue fox hunting? Some folks on this board said no, but I do see a lot more Virginia hunt properties advertised in British publications these days.

[vahunter]

Flint Hill farm is back on the market for 29+M. It’s on the Middleburg Real Estate web site. I guess Gretchen doesn’t mind forgoing the development for a cool 12M turnover profit.

[Tantivy]

Gates…I think in some instances it depends on the setting.

Ex. 1 - a new house goes up, in the middle of a field with no trees etc. New materials not local to the area, (think vinyl), achingly suburban feeling, perhaps complete with columns even, like plucked out of a well-to-do DC neighborhood. Then they fence it in, maybe with, say, brick pillars with 10 foot sections of iron railings in between (absolutely hideous) and a big gate at the drive.

YUK, it positively does not fit in to the local area architecture (mixtures of stucco, timber, stone, older brick).

Stands out like a sore thumb, reeks of wannabeism. And the gates just accentuate it.

Ex. 2, some one builds a new house but sets it in some trees overlooking an open field. While new, it has some stone and maybe a copper roof mixed in to make it look more natural. It makes a kinder picture than the first house, harshly set in the open.

They put some fencing in too, but it is post and rail or 3 board, with some coops and rider’s gates in the fence lines. Even if they don’t have much room to ride through, it sure gives us 'unting folk a warmer feel!

And while they might have gates too, maybe they went to a contractor and took the time to have some of those lovely heavy white wooden gates made, like the ones that grace a restored farmette in Green Springs that I think of, and they leave them invitingly open at all times, as if to say “come in and visit for a while”.

Or maybe they use stone instead of brick, old local stone, that looks old and like it has been guarding the property for hundreds of years instead of since…last week.

There are gates…and then there are gates!

[Hunter_s_Rest]

Tall Oaks
No, Gretchen bought the Thistle Hill place in Hume and I understand she’s also put a contract on the Fitzgerald place across 688 - which will no doubt be a mirror development on the other side of the road. I think it is a man who bought the Cove and built the 10,000+ sf mansion up under Rattlesnake Mtn. Gretchen was the contractor, I believe. But she actually lives in Thistle Hill, I think.
I do remember the stories, anyway, about Carla and her stallion(s). They and she were legendary.

[OakesBrae]

I feel for all of you. When I was growing up in PA I lived far out in farmland, with a mountain to ride on and many fields. I now live in another…flatter…state, and every farm I have boarded at is landlocked. I am able only to ride out in the hayfield or in the arena, and the cars go by too fast to go on the road anywhere.

It’s sad.

I truly hope that you find a way to keep the sub-urban sprawl to a minimum. I’d ilke to see Hunt country while it still is…

[Tantivy]

It is my understanding the the zoning for the Flint Hill development has NOT been obtained although the property has been sold and closed on.

Yes, the wording sounds great…placing the residences in locations so as to minimize impact, but in the end the almighty dollar will rule.

And not requiring purchasers to keep the land open to the hunt is in my humble opinion a HUGE mistake. The worst possible scenario.

All it takes is one strategiacally placed parcel and respective owner who says “NO”. And don’t think for one second exactly that won’t happen.

I will be bad enough, all those many parcels, each with a house and fencing and outbuildings and driveways and front yards and pools and “you can come through but please don’t ride here…or there…or over there…”

It takes courage to sell land requiring purchasers to leave it open to the hunt and I daresay few are brave enough to take that route for fear of losing a sale.

It is all so very sad. Nothing, nothing is sacred anymore but the dollar.

Something is being destroyed here and I think the ramifications are much deeper than anyone can possibly appreciate in our lifetime.

Some days, I think I am about ready to leave this planet for some new hunting grounds…but since we have not conquered space travel just yet, I am afraid I am stuck here!

[armandh]

the first problem: flight from higher regulation and density rather than rebuilding, both business and residential. it cost less.
the cities need to make it easier and cheaper for people and business to stay.

we however are lucky there is a farther out that is not in another hunts territory

[Hopefully]

WE have, too. Plus left some cover that we could have used as (much-needed) pasture. Unlike many of our neighbors who now have 7-acre lawns

[Glimmerglass]

<BLOCKQUOTE class=“ip-ubbcode-quote”><div class=“ip-ubbcode-quote-title”>quote:</div><div class=“ip-ubbcode-quote-content”>Originally posted by Windsor:
Just wasn’t sure about the gates thing, but it seems from your explanation that gates that “fit in” may be acceptable–like you said, there are gates, and then there are gates. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Of course I’m of the belief that in large part gates really shouldn’t be necessary. You could still drive up to the door of Susan Cummings’ Ashland Farm, for example, until the day she sold the place a couple years ago. And clearly you’d think she would’ve had reason to keep the curious folks, et al away but didn’t.

Yes there may be a need to keep “in” pets and children, but we all know that isn’t typically why impossing sentry gates are put up.

There are no sentry gates for Kennelworth - but it looks like a fairly impressive home. So why would the owner of a McMansion need them more than these folks?

[lolalola]

Zero population growth doesn’t mean not having any kids - it means not having more than replacement numbers, i.e. two per couple.

[armandh]

quote
At some point, it won’t be about land to hunt on, it will be about where are we going to get our food?

wrong

it will be about where will we get food cheaply.
all of the cash that went through enron wouldn’t by the last barrel of oil.

as land for ag becomes scarce food costs will go up family size down. then some unrecognized defect widely spread in genetically engineered food will result in a world wide famine and Charlton Heston will play in the movie.

[Windsor]

<BLOCKQUOTE class=“ip-ubbcode-quote”><div class=“ip-ubbcode-quote-title”>quote:</div><div class=“ip-ubbcode-quote-content”>Originally posted by Glimmerglass:
They included skip putting up sentry gates on the entry to your drive (this isn’t McLean!), </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Just idly curious–how come gates are frowned upon? Is it just certain TYPES of gates? I seem to remember reading that they are generally thought “unneighborly,” but what if they’re left open during the day? Are they considered unsightly?

[Foxhunt4me]

<BLOCKQUOTE class=“ip-ubbcode-quote”><div class=“ip-ubbcode-quote-title”>quote:</div><div class=“ip-ubbcode-quote-content”>I swear I wanna go hunt far, far from here. Hey, how ya’ll doin’ out there in Missouri!! Nebraska sounds nice! </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Well come on out, thousands and thousands of acres that are not claimed by any hunt. Bring your hounds and horses or join a hunt already in progress.

[Glimmerglass]

Windsor, I concur about the locked doors however it’s not quite the same as closed gates

Anyhow yet another Fauquier Co. disappointment in the news - Times-Democrat 9/8/05 “BZA finishes landowners’ feud”

The property in question I thought was once-part of the 2,000 + acre North Wales estate, which Michael V. Prentiss acquired but in large part put under protective easment.

Maybe just maybe he’ll revist buying the 715 acre property in question from the developer. As an aside, it’s a bit surprising that one of the weathiest commercial property developers in the US [that is Mr. Prentiss] is somewhat outfoxed in this fued.

He is an example of non-Virginian who has moved in and done a lot of good for the area. And has in fact invested and expanded the ‘white elephant’ of an estate’s equine purpose plus has preserved much of the property’s vast acreage.

[ashebrook]

While I was looking for my sources, Tantivy made some of the important points that I wanted to. Some posters have talked about zero population growth and I wanted to point out that the U.S. does have zero population growth! Our population only continues to grow because of immigration. You can read it for yourself on the population reference bureau website:
http://www.prb.org/AmeristatTemplate.cfm?Section=Racean…y.cfm&ContentID=7981

The long and the short of it is that in order for a population to grow, each woman must have more than 2.1 children. The 2005 estimated total fertility rate is 2.08. If it is broken down by race, the TFR is whites- 1.9, blacks- 2.2, and hispanics- 3.2. If we closed the borders right now, our population would level off and even slowly decline.

I think it is important to make these points because I know so many young women who have convinced themselves that our population is out of control and that they need to not have any children. In fact, our immigration is out of control and it is definitely unkind to give young women the impression that having a family is somehow morally wrong.

PS - I only know these things because I am putting the finishing touches on a research paper that deals with population projections for a grad Natural Resource Mgmt. class

[xeroxchick]

We have.

[Glimmerglass]

Tantivy and xerozchick, I agree with you both on the sickening feeling that development brings. Additionally I am suspect with any ‘talk’ a developer puts out there to try and make people feel better about it.

Perhaps the MFH of Orange should speak with the would-be developers and see if they can secure a covenant allowing the hunt through the lands. I would think it could - if positioned correctly - be a positive selling point for the lands.

However the fact the whole tract is not being pitched as an equestrian friendly development - with bridle paths would suggest only a passing interest in horses.

I can easily see now the Wall Street Journal and glossy Unique Homes ads marketing the property in “Hunt Country” yet taking no steps to ensure that doesn’t simply become a moniker of the whole regions past.

I have close friends in Delaplane, VA and they are so tired of all the development completed and proposed in the area. They are living in fear of the Fleetwood Farm offering which is just a portion of almost 3,000 undeveloped Delaplane acres the present owners hold.

Does everything have to be sold-off, developed, or otherwise exploited for the all-mighty dollar?

[Glimmerglass]

<BLOCKQUOTE class=“ip-ubbcode-quote”><div class=“ip-ubbcode-quote-title”>quote:</div><div class=“ip-ubbcode-quote-content”>Originally posted by SidesaddleRider:
And I’ll be truly interested to see if, even though the article said that hunting is allowed, whether we’ll actually be allowed to hunt on it. Because we were certainly told we WEREN’T last year, before they even started construction… </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Trust me I’m sure it [the rights] will be used as some type of bargaining chip. I think the notion of seeing a real hunt sweep by guests enjoying drinks on the veranda of the “Inn” is something right out of the sales brochure.

Perhaps the trade-off will require the doctor to be made master of foxhounds for that one day

[Windsor]

<BLOCKQUOTE class=“ip-ubbcode-quote”><div class=“ip-ubbcode-quote-title”>quote:</div><div class=“ip-ubbcode-quote-content”>Originally posted by SidesaddleRider:
I find that calling the gates “security” is rather ridiculous, as they usually have 3-4 board fencing on either side of the gate, which pretty much anyone could climb over. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Ridiculous? Whatever. I’m not sure too too many criminals are going to (a) want to break in to someone’s home, then run back down a half-mile (or however long) driveway back to their car or (b) drive THROUGH either a gate or four-board fence.

If you have a gate to your driveway that is locked at night, you may not prevent a break-in (or vandalism, or horse theft, or whatever) altogether, but you are most certainly throwing up a significant obstacle to those crimes–an obstacle that might cause Joe Ne’erdowell to target a property with easier access and escape.

[maxiford812]

<BLOCKQUOTE class=“ip-ubbcode-quote”><div class=“ip-ubbcode-quote-title”>quote:</div><div class=“ip-ubbcode-quote-content”>Originally posted by 2ndyrgal:
At some point, it won’t be about land to hunt on, it will be about where are we going to get our food? </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Don’t you know? Corn comes in a can and meat comes in plastic wrap on little foam trays. What do you need land for?

Sometimes I’m glad I’m so old (50). I really don’t think I could stand to still be here once every square inch of land is paved and horses are only in zoos.