VA: Development in Orange Hunt (Flint Hill Farm)

[Windsor]

<BLOCKQUOTE class=“ip-ubbcode-quote”><div class=“ip-ubbcode-quote-title”>quote:</div><div class=“ip-ubbcode-quote-content”>Originally posted by Glimmerglass:
Windsor, I concur about the locked doors however it’s not quite the same as closed gates </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

You’re right, of course, and there are other means of ensuring one’s security. I still, though, fail to see what’s unsavory about tasteful gates at the head of the driveway of friendly neighbors who leave them open to welcome others during the day and close them for their own security at night? I’m prepared to accept that they are generally disliked out there, but I still don’t get why–IF they blend well with the surrounding nature and properties.

Anyhoo, Glimmer, the important thing is that we are on the same side with regard to the land-use/development issues.

What Tantivy has said about population growth is an ugly truth, but a truth nonetheless, it seems to me. Of course I say that as a person who’s never had a burning desire to have ANY kids–much less a gaggle of them.

[talloaks]

thanks Hunter’s Rest!! Sorry the scenery is changing!

[Whitewater]

I’m a yankee who’s hunt country is gobbled up.

Learn from our mistakes:

The only way to ensure the land stays open is to have deeds and easements as a part of the sale of the property.

This means talking to land owners NOW- before they are thinking of selling and convince them of the need for an easement and/or deed to their property. If they are worried their price will go down, and buyers will walk away because of the “restriction”, then THOSE people aren’t the ones you wanted anyway!

Tug on their heart strings (gently). It is honorable to be a good steward of the land.

you have to get your local government and groups involved as STAKEHOLDERS for maintaining and ensuring OPEN SPACE.

if you have trail assocations, enviromental groups, fisherman, packs of hounds, everyone who enjoys the outdoors just as they are… you need to come together for one purpose: open space.

People come to NoVa because of it’s open spaces. Remind your township officials that if we don’t do anything NOW to HALT development, people won’t desire this place anymore. The face of Virginia will be changed for ever.

Hurry. Get involved in a solution.

[krocky]

Gates do a great job of keeping the fire department out !

[Glimmerglass]

<BLOCKQUOTE class=“ip-ubbcode-quote”><div class=“ip-ubbcode-quote-title”>quote:</div><div class=“ip-ubbcode-quote-content”>Originally posted by 2ndyrgal:
Yes, it IS about the almighty dollar, and everything has a price. Large tracts of land that are owned by family members who simply do not care to hold on to valuable land and would rather have the money will always be sold to the highest bidder. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Not to lament further on this topic, but I just find it so disgusting that this era above all others just seems to be all too willing to forsake the privilege of land stewardship for money. The notion of “let’s got out while the ‘getting is good’” type of motivation. What I still have yet to hear answered is - if you are selling off paradise for money, where will you move with your money?

No one can tell me that offers in the past weren’t made to “grandpa” for his 5th generation farm with a classic stone farmhouse and yet he held on to it. True the inheritors of the lands today are less likely to fox hunt or ride at all - but isn’t there something to be said for property that’s been kept in a family for generations?

With all due respect I always have to laugh at the obscenely low taxes these large Virginia estates are charged. [Look at the mega tax bills for gentlemen’s farms in Westchester Co. NY - $50k a year +] So clearly it isn’t the tax man who is pushing the need for sale. Still for whatever reason even the great friend of huntsmen, Paul Mellon, even allowed for part of huge Rokeby estate lands to be sold off for limited development in his will. I am fairly certain Bunny didn’t need the money. Occasional fox-hunter, Pamela Harriman could’ve willed her large tract of land on the edge of Middleburg into a perpetual easement and access for hunts but didn’t. Alas now it is the basis for development. So the lack of preservation foresight isn’t just applicable to the classic Virginian who is “cash poor, land rich”.

Who knows maybe the eminent domain laws - the notion of compensation seize for the greater good for the people - will be used in 50 years to buy up developments and raze them for parklands!

[SeaShe]

Chiming in here although I usually avoid these kinds of discussions because I’m not fond of conflict and I’m not trying to start a conflict but sharing what I know.

Population growth is a huge problem but it’s more of a global problem than a U.S. or even U.S./Canada problem. Without immigration, the U.S. would only have about a 1% growth rate, which is sustainable. The major population problems are in developing countries like India, Mexico, Africa, etc. However, there’s a positive correlation between women’s rights and decreased birth rates in these countries. Conservation efforts are extremely important for quality of life and so are any efforts to educate women. It is depressing but there’s also reason to hope, I think.

[talloaks]

<BLOCKQUOTE class=“ip-ubbcode-quote”><div class=“ip-ubbcode-quote-title”>quote:</div><div class=“ip-ubbcode-quote-content”>The same builder-developer, Gretchen whatsit, did the exact same thing just down the road from Flint Hill Farm in Hume a few years ago. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Hunter’s Rest, is this the same developer who purchased the DiGulians “The Cove” a few years ago?

Remember the days of Carla and Bold Couqueror???
Maybe you are too young for that but surely your mom knows. Things have sure changes and not necessarily for the better!!

[ashebrook]

Glimmerglass, I think you are right on. I think that many people in the 30-50 age range, have VERY high expectations and want to play Thomas Jefferson on their own little farm. Doesn’t that describe most of us on this board?

Who doesn’t want to live well?

What upsets me is the folks who move to Loudoun/Fauquier/Culpeper and think that they are still in Fairfax and should have all those same amenities PLUS the open space, no traffic, lower housing costs, etc. Those people expect US to change for THEM rather than the other way around.

If you move to the country from the suburbs, don’t bring the suburbs with you!

[MuleLady]

Ahh, Tantivy, you speak to my fears. As to conservation easements, they are a nice gesture but I’m not convinced they’ll hold in the long term. When the burgeoning masses will need more land, they will insist upon it, and they will have the en masse economic clout to affect legislation and mindsets in their favor.

I suppose it’s a good thing the land mass is only 25% of the planet…hopefully that puts a constraint on human expansion that the ecosphere can handle.

I need to go ride now, this is depressing.

[MuleLady]

I’m with Hunter’s Rest…people need to stop reproducing. We are overrunning the planet. Combine that with affluence and (relatively) cheap fuel and the pressure for more suburban homes is never going to let up. It’s sad, but look at maps of population densities and you’ll see why our beloved hunt country is under such pressure–won’t be long before it’s one big mass of humanity from NY to FL and west to the Blue Ridge.

I can’t believe what I’m seeing happening in Culpeper and the prices of the houses…ASTOUNDING. Who would pay in the $300’s to live in a cookie-cutter house on a sixth-acre lot development in CULPEPER??? I can’t imagine. I’m very worried what it means for Rappahannock down the road, even though our county is still pristine. We’ve started looking at land around Roanoke and Lexington for a possible future move, but Nebraska is starting to sound pretty good to me.

[Glimmerglass]

<BLOCKQUOTE class=“ip-ubbcode-quote”><div class=“ip-ubbcode-quote-title”>quote:</div><div class=“ip-ubbcode-quote-content”>Originally posted by vahunter:
Flint Hill farm is back on the market for 29+M. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

That makes the Delaplane-based offering Fleetwood Farm at $21,615,000 almost a bargain with many more acres (1,441 to be exact vs. 856 for Flint) for less.

Well at $29.75M + we can be assured it’s beyond the reach of the PEC or other non for profit to buy up and now doubtful that the next buyers will have the luxury of creating larger-parceled enclaves with the land. In order to make money off that high of an upfront purchase the ultimate developer will have to be all about packing them in

[Glimmerglass]

<BLOCKQUOTE class=“ip-ubbcode-quote”><div class=“ip-ubbcode-quote-title”>quote:</div><div class=“ip-ubbcode-quote-content”>Originally posted by Glimmerglass:
<BLOCKQUOTE class=“ip-ubbcode-quote”><div class=“ip-ubbcode-quote-title”>quote:</div><div class=“ip-ubbcode-quote-content”>Originally posted by vahunter:
Flint Hill farm is back on the market for 29+M. It’s on the Middleburg Real Estate web site. I guess Gretchen doesn’t mind forgoing the development for a cool 12M turnover profit. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Interestingly it looks to have been moved off the web site this week. For a while it was the “cover” home and feature offering but no longer so. No mention of it on any other page … </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Ah they changed realtors for the listing

Fauquire Times-Democrat: “Flint Hill Farm has distinguished history”

Long & Foster - 3103 MAIDSTONE RD SW, DELAPLANE VA 20144: $29.75M

[gothedistance]

Yes, go ride. Enjoy the pleasures that Mother Nature has given us. Above all, that is the most important thing to do. And remember…

…every small thing you do to make the world a better place to live is a blessing. Like picking up and disposing of properly a piece of trash that you may happen to spy on the ground. Recycling. Not pouring chemicals down your toilet or sinks. Those small things you do may not be earthshattering in your eyes… but the impact is far reaching.

You can’t stop the march of the human race. Being a genealogist, I’ve spent many years digging up the past, and have been enthralled and astounded by the volume and type and manner of living of the people I’ve unearthed. The world today is not much different than the past – our methods of de-spoiling are a tad different in some respects, but not by much compared to those practices of the past.

Nothing is static. All things change. The ebb and flow of humanity goes on and WILL go on. Even in my lovely hunting paradise this area once harbored large towns --one being the 3rd largest in Loudoun County in the late 19th century – surrounded by many, many lots of 1-2 acre parcels. Then… things changed. Opportunity knocked elsewhere, and the people followed it. One landowner bought up all the small lots and converted them into one massive several thousand acre farm. The depressions of the 1950’s and 1970’s set the pendalum moving the other way. Land began to sell for development. And now the clock has moved full cycle… and the people are returning; the land being broken up into small parcels once again.

Give it 200 years. It will change back again.

[Glimmerglass]

<BLOCKQUOTE class=“ip-ubbcode-quote”><div class=“ip-ubbcode-quote-title”>quote:</div><div class=“ip-ubbcode-quote-content”>Originally posted by Tantivy:
Hey, what is it they are trying to ESCAPE? The four bedroom families! Reread what you wrote…they are running from EXACTLY what we were discussing - the fallout of overpopulation: traffic, crime, ugly landscapes, crowded neighborhoods etc. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Hmmm to some degree yes but in large part the new affluent people are just trading up from [or having been out priced in trying to get value for their money] living in Georgetown or Old Town Alexandria. Neither of which are being “overrun” by burgeoning families

Point taken none the less that any growth - be it from people having more tots or modern-day “carpet baggers” from the West Coast or wannabe Paul Mellons’ content on 4-acres, but having contempt for the scent of horses - is contributing to the pressures of development.

[talloaks]

Oh Horrors!!! Development is such rape of the land and developers have always been known for dirty greedy hands. Get out and enjoy the countryside while you can, take those special pictures of the places you have been thrilled by since too soon it all will be gone!!! Some people call this progress!!

[x-rab]

In Virginia you talk to the General Assembly to try and limit development. Under the Dillion’s rule of government that Virginia operates, localities only the powers specifically granted to them by the General Assembly. The General Assembly at this point in time is owned lock, stock and barrel by the developers. If the localities try to do something that the developers don’t like, all they have to do is go to the General Assembly and get it overturned.

Some several years ago, the developers got a rule passed that no locality can have a stiffer building code than the state code. That little rule change halved the firewalls between townhouses in Fairfax County.

Get to know your State Assemblymen and Senators and lobby the daylights out of them as well as your local government. Loudon will be paved. The changes put in by the current board has assured the paving. There is even one Supervisor who wanted to fire county employees who advised against his position on development.

[Glimmerglass]

<BLOCKQUOTE class=“ip-ubbcode-quote”><div class=“ip-ubbcode-quote-title”>quote:</div><div class=“ip-ubbcode-quote-content”>Originally posted by Glimmerglass:
Occasional fox-hunter, Pamela Harriman could’ve willed her large tract of land on the edge of Middleburg into a perpetual easement and access for hunts but didn’t. Alas now it is the basis for development. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

On a directly related note - due to new changes in the septic system at Salamander Inn [no longer a septic drain field but connecting into the M’burg sewer system] is that foxhunting will be allowed over the Inn’s property.

Any such use was in doubt before as there was risk in damaging the alternative proposal of waste disposal.

[gothedistance]

We have, too.

Plus we work hard to support the slow-growth initiative that is (thank the Gods) being re-instituted in Loudoun County before all the beautiful land here is nothing but overfertilized lawns and billion dollar piles of stone-fronted 2x4’s.

[SidesaddleRider]

<BLOCKQUOTE class=“ip-ubbcode-quote”><div class=“ip-ubbcode-quote-title”>quote:</div><div class=“ip-ubbcode-quote-content”>On a directly related note - due to new changes in the septic system at Salamander Inn [no longer a septic drain field but connecting into the M’burg sewer system] is that foxhunting will be allowed over the Inn’s property.

Any such use was in doubt before as there was risk in damaging the alternative proposal of waste disposal. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Just wanted to add that while I am not happy about them allowing Johnson’s property to now fall under town limits, the reason that most board members went with the plan is because 75% of the property is listed in an open-space easement, put on it by the Harriman’s.

And I’ll be truly interested to see if, even though the article said that hunting is allowed, whether we’ll actually be allowed to hunt on it. Because we were certainly told we WEREN’T last year, before they even started construction…

[gothedistance]

<BLOCKQUOTE class=“ip-ubbcode-quote”><div class=“ip-ubbcode-quote-title”>quote:</div><div class=“ip-ubbcode-quote-content”>Originally posted by SeaShe:
I’m curious – how many acres (square miles???) are minimally adequate for a hunt? </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
Depends upon what you are hunting. If rabbit, generally 10-30 acres will do, with about 8 or so different locals so you don’t overhunt one area. If fox, at least 8-15 sq miles so you can move the meet from place to place and (again) don’t “overhunt” an area. However, skies-the-limit on distances the hounds can go if foxes are visiting and run “straight neck’ed” out of the county. If coyote, then you can expect to have runs from the Mississippi to San Francisco.

It’s actually the land needed to “find” the quarry, and not overhunt any one area, that makes the difference.