VA: Development in Orange Hunt (Flint Hill Farm)

[Tantivy]

This planet is a comparable to a ship, floating through space versus on an ocean…and what happens to a ship when you overcrowd it?

It begins to reek, disease breeds, and at some point it if you put too many people aboard, it will simply SINK. Things eventually descend into chaos - there is even a law of physics of such, I believe.

And that is exactly what we are doing to this lovely planet. Most everything we touch we DESTROY as we mold it to meet our expectations and desires.

Why can’t we just replace ourselves and stop there (unless one adopts?) Who or what gives anyone the right to have more than two children? Where are MY rights - maybe I want some space for MY two children and what about people having 3 and 4? and more…are they not infringing on my and my family’s future rights…?

And why is no one addressing this? What is the typical response to the news that someone is pregnant? It is offers of CONGRATULATIONS.

Well, what kind of world are they responsible for bringing a child into? Does anyone ever think 50 years down the road…the US population today is about 285 million, and in only FIFTY short years it will grow by another 125 million.

Look around you, where are they going to live? Work? Play? Throw their trash? For every two people you see today, there will be one more.

A world where…there are no fields to play in, very few can afford a pony for a child to grow up with, and open space is something you well might have to drive hours to see.

We are fouling our own nest every day.

I do not mean to sound overly pessimistic, but very few people even begin to appreciate the beauty that lies around us here in Virginia and elsewhere. Sadly, the average person is only concerned with the rate he is getting on his 30 year mortgage, or the price of fuel, or what is playing at the movie theatre this Friday.

Like the business companies of America, we are focused on short term results and problems.

And it is our children and grandchildren who will pay the price.

I absolutely positively do not have the least desire to be here in another 50 years, and only wish I was born 50 years earlier.

I will hunt as long as I can, and when I can no longer ride I will continue to appreciate what beauty lies around me as today, I must watch it systematically destroyed in the name of society and progress.

But I can rejoice that for a while, I got to enjoy mornings on horseback in the open countryside…and how I hope those cherished memories can carry me to my grave.

For most people, there is no longer respect for the land, and there is no dignity in life when we do not respect that from which we sprung from. Land is no longer revered; instead, it is now part of a portfolio or an investment vehicle.

Today, we are not stewards of the land, we are despoilers of it.

And we should be ashamed. And very afraid.

[Glimmerglass]

<BLOCKQUOTE class=“ip-ubbcode-quote”><div class=“ip-ubbcode-quote-title”>quote:</div><div class=“ip-ubbcode-quote-content”>Originally posted by vahunter:
Flint Hill farm is back on the market for 29+M. It’s on the Middleburg Real Estate web site. I guess Gretchen doesn’t mind forgoing the development for a cool 12M turnover profit. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Interestingly it looks to have been moved off the web site this week. For a while it was the “cover” home and feature offering but no longer so. No mention of it on any other page …

[SeaShe]

I’m curious – how many acres (square miles???) are minimally adequate for a hunt?

[SidesaddleRider]

<BLOCKQUOTE class=“ip-ubbcode-quote”><div class=“ip-ubbcode-quote-title”>quote:</div><div class=“ip-ubbcode-quote-content”>Originally posted by Glimmerglass:
Perhaps the trade-off will require the doctor to be made master of foxhounds for that one day </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Oh, lord…If that day happens, you certainly won’t see me there! I’m afraid I’d call her the town’s nickname…“Good morning, wicked witch!”

[Tantivy]

Gothedistance wrote "Yes, go ride. Enjoy the pleasures that Mother Nature has given us. Above all, that is the most important thing to do. And remember…

…every small thing you do to make the world a better place to live is a blessing. Like picking up and disposing of properly a piece of trash that you may happen to spy on the ground. Recycling. Not pouring chemicals down your toilet or sinks. Those small things you do may not be earthshattering in your eyes… but the impact is far reaching."

Thank-you for the gentle reminder. You are entirely correct.

As to trash, I was out until well after dark picking up trash Sunday evening. Bags of trash…and it has (sadly) become a weekly chore. Several miles worth of roadway in hunt territory. It drives me mad to see, day by day, no, HOUR BY HOUR, the litter so rudely tossed near my horses’s pasture and on the fields where I hack. It is disgusting, the hundreds of cigarette butts, beer bottles, soda pop, fast food wrappers…the trash content is both a stark commentary on how little the bulk of the population cares about the state of their body AND how little respect they have for the landowner on whose property they dispatch their filth.

Respect. That is what is so lacking in today’s society. People who have no respect, much less desire to understand, the traditions of hunting, the stewardship of land, the sacredness of a farmer’s labor.

And it enrages me beyond any words I can write here that I must pick up THEIR trash so I can walk across an unspoiled field to enjoy a sunset or give my horse his evening treat.

THAT is what we foxhunters and lovers of the countryside must live beside, and how do you even begin to educate people with that mentality?

God bless our logoed hunt buttons if we ever suceed!

[SidesaddleRider]

<BLOCKQUOTE class=“ip-ubbcode-quote”><div class=“ip-ubbcode-quote-title”>quote:</div><div class=“ip-ubbcode-quote-content”>Originally posted by Windsor:
I still, though, fail to see what’s unsavory about tasteful gates at the head of the driveway of friendly neighbors who leave them open to welcome others during the day and close them for their own security at night? </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

I find that calling the gates “security” is rather ridiculous, as they usually have 3-4 board fencing on either side of the gate, which pretty much anyone could climb over.

The only place I would say is actually secure is Sheila Johnson’s Salamandar Farm, as she has a security guard out front 24-7.

[gothedistance]

This spring I was at the farm next door, and the owner and I watched OCH come through, opening gates for them as the hounds tore across the pastures over into Flint Hill. She and I walked for a while on the ridgetops, following the hunt by sight and sound as they circled around until they finally disappeared from view in a ravine along a creek. It was such beautiful land, rolling pastures as far as the eye could see, broken only by spurs and copses of deep shade trees.

I was over at Flint Hill just two weeks ago talking to the guy who farms and hays the fields and was shocked when he told me the land was sold. He said the guy that owned it before only bought it as an investment and held it while waiting out the remainder of the time the land was in the ag program. The second that time was up – the guy sold it for development. Which meant the prior owner didn’t give a fig what happened to it. The developers are going for the maximum they can subdivide according to the county ordinances. I’ve talked to too many developers and learned not to believe a word they say.

It was sad to see the old farm sign sitting in the corner of the tractor shed. A lovely sign with a portrait of the manor house. The old owner said to throw it away since the new owners didn’t want it. I suggested the farmer ask the Fauquier County Historical Society if they wanted it – I hope he did so.

[Foxhunt4me]

Have to agree on development , I am watching ‘town’ force its way out to our place - I look to the north and on the hills I now see houses where there were not any before.

The old saying it that they name the subdivision after what they plowed under to build it. We have one near me named ’ Coyote Run ’ - yeah the Coyotes HAD to run, we have ’ Green Acres ’ or is it HAD Green Acres, ’ Deer Creek ', ’ Quail Hollow ’ , etc. etc.

[Windsor]

Thanks for the thorough explanation, Tantivy.

I DO understand the whole “sterile-new- McMansion-sticking-out-like-a-sore-thumb” thing (ew)–I know the new National Sporting Library was designed specifically NOT to look like that. Just wasn’t sure about the gates thing, but it seems from your explanation that gates that “fit in” may be acceptable–like you said, there are gates, and then there are gates.

[Tantivy]

“Population growth is a huge problem but it’s more of a global problem than a U.S… The major population problems are in developing countries…there’s a positive correlation between women’s rights and decreased birth rates in these countries.”

It is indeed more of a global problem than a national one, but there is a great deal more immigration going on than anyone realizes.

There are literally hundreds of thousands of Hispanics walking across our southern border every year. The United States is being reassimilated by Mexico at a much faster rate than is anyone recognizes. Ironic, is it not? A quiet revolution has already begun, and with no shots being fired.

And they are reproducing at a much faster rate than native-born Americans.

And yes, it is a well known fact that an educated woman has less children. She begins to look past the short term future and question what lies ahead for her grandchildren…

Perhaps that is where our salvation lies.

The education of women.

But in the meantime, “MuleLady” is sadly correct. Some day in the not too distant future, the masses will have the economic clout to lay aside the conservation easments,a nd do not doubt for a moment that they will.

As one of my brothers likes to postulate, we might only be saved by a worldwide epidemic or depression!

Hope you enjoyed your afternnon hack, Carol.

[Glimmerglass]

This could be a very dumb question but has there been a proposal to adopt a “Community Preservation Fund” approach to Virginia’s hunt country?

Several high growth, desirable communities have adopted such a program - in particular the Hamptons of Long Island, NY.

In short it’s a 2% transaction tax on real estate [non commercial] above a certain dollar amount (typically $2M + dollars) which then goes into a land fund to buy and protect acreage from development.

In the Hamptons it’s resulted in over $100M raised and over 1,100 acres preserved. A high level pro & con discussion is here: “Is funding land preservation with a tax on real estate transactions fair?”

I think of all the solutions out there this is one of the best. Simply because it taxes those who are driving up prices, purchasing luxury properties and speculative land buys that are at prices well beyond the reach of most buyers. It doesn’t add cost/taxes to the average joe and the Preservation Fund buys property on the open market so those who want to sell aren’t being forced into the sale and aren’t expected to give away land.

[I will say this too - I am by no means some tree hugging liberal who thinks that being rich is wrong or that new money or residents coming into hunt country is bad! Although the latter need to respect and appreciate the history of the region and be willing to preserve it.]

Provided the guidelines on land usage under preservation are explicit to allow fox hunting and other equestrian purposes it should be a win-win.

As an example as of right now there are 26 homes in Fauquier on the market (MLS only so additionally many more are exclusively listed) at a price of $1.5M +.

The sale of a Canterbury in Warrenton at the current list rate, would net $150k towards the fund. The sale of Chancellor’s Rock in Rappahannock Co could net $300k towards such a fund in that hunt region too.

Just a thought

[Tantivy]

Glimmerglass wrote:

"Whoa this thread seems to have gotten way off track! Who knew this would delve into a “we’re having too many kids” type of thread…I see far more “land-grabs” of prime hunt lands being from older, childless wealth type buyers.

People are not buying up lots in Middleburg to relocate their four children families…these 12,000 sq. ft places are being built for and occupied by 45-yr old ‘yuppies’…The problem you could then say is not population growth, but rather the boom in economic wealth…are looking for that suburban dream plus some. Huge old trees on a few acres, vastly less traffic, less crime, no panhandling, scenic landscapes, etc."

Hey, what is it they are trying to ESCAPE? The four bedroom families! Reread what you wrote…they are running from EXACTLY what we were discussing - the fallout of overpopulation: traffic, crime, ugly landscapes, crowded neighborhoods etc.

It is a circle that comes back to the same thing, a combination of greed, too many people, and a society with different values.

And no one should feel that are not entitled to have a child or two…but more than that? And tha is what many immigrants are doing. Perhaps in another generation or two their birthrate will drop also.

It is a sad shame that DC is located where it is - had it been somewhere else, the lovely land to the west might have remained as it was. But it is not to be.

[xeroxchick]

Horrible.
It amazes me how many developers will cloak their advertising in a seemingly naturalist/low impact shpiel. We have a metrosexual-rich-ex-trendy-restaurant-owner-now bed and breakfast guy around us who started a community organization to control growth and to not spoil the natural beauty of our area. He had local meetings presenting options like landowners selling “development rights” and keeping greenspace around planned developments based on “township/village” models. Guess what. He’s developing his own property to be a “leader” in this model. I say the whole thing stinks of $$$$$$$. Sorry, but it seems obvious that he just wanted to direct the growth from shoebox subdivisions (yes, gag) to a more profitable and upscale concept(still gagging). Density is density and if you put lots of homes close together in a “village” with a greenspace around them it still adds even more commuters on the roads, more convenience stores being built for the commuters, lovely country roads being widened for the traffic, etc. (not to mention no place to ride or hunt) The village model doesn’t work because people who can afford to buy those homes can’t afford to stay in the “village” and work for low wages in the “village,” so it’s not a village, it is a glorified subdivision. Sorry to rant. I agree with Tantivy, sometimes I want to run away. A lifetime of watching everything being bulldozed is getting to be too much.

[Glimmerglass]

It’s sad to see yet another large swath of land being developed (856-parcel) for high-end luxury homes on what is part of the Orange hunt. The upside is that it sounds like the developers are more naturalist here in the outset with the styles, location and size of the homes.

I was struck most by the would-be developer’s comments concerning the hunt and would-be buyers:

Fauquier Times-Democrat 7-12-05 “Flint Hill Farm development will host 21 homes”

excerpt:

<BLOCKQUOTE class=“ip-ubbcode-quote”><div class=“ip-ubbcode-quote-title”>quote:</div><div class=“ip-ubbcode-quote-content”> “The market for these homes is much more out-of-state purchasers,” Yahn said. “Texas, California, Florida, Connecticut and the European market, especially the English. They can’t fox hunt in England and this is Orange County Hunt territory. We tried to site the houses so that they will have a minimum impact to the Orange County Hunt.”

As for allowing the hunt to continue to cross their lands, Yahn said that decision would be left up to individual landowners. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

This came up once before - is there really an interest by British hunters to migrate to Virginia to continue fox hunting? Some folks on this board said no, but I do see a lot more Virginia hunt properties advertised in British publications these days.

[Hunter_s_Rest]

Tantivy, you are my new hero.
And, Glimmer, praytell, do we really HAVE to replicate ourselves? All of us?? There is nothing, nothing at all, that special about my geneology to mean that I must reproduce. Or ought to. Or ought to even feign delight when my 40-year-old housekeeper tells me she can’t clean my house for a year or so 'cause she’s pregnant with twins. Not married (not that there’s anything wrong with that.) Has 2 kids already. 17 and 15 years old. Xcuse me? You don’t know what causes that condition???!! Yikes. That is the sort of random population growth that flyover birth control would remediate.
Just a thought.

[Glimmerglass]

Whoa this thread seems to have gotten way off track! Who knew this would delve into a “we’re having too many kids” type of thread. While Warrenton is having a terrible time with the need for expansion of high-schools I see far more “land-grabs” of prime hunt lands being from older, childless and/or first generation wealth type buyers.

People are not buying up lots in Middleburg to relocate their four children families Let’s get real. If anything these 12,000 sq. ft places are being built for and occupied by 45-yr old ‘yuppies’ (if that term still is applicable) who very likely don’t want kids.

The problem you could then say is not population growth, but rather the boom in economic wealth. As people have accumulated more money they can afford to live 1 1/2 hours from DC - because they at most are telecommuting to a very high paying job. They aren’t moving to Delaplane into a multi-million dollar place to then try and get a job bussing tables at Hunter’s Head Tavern. No, they’ve instead (more likely then not) made a tidy sum in a prior venture, investment, inheritance, etc and they are looking for that suburban dream plus some. Huge old trees on a few acres, vastly less traffic, less crime, no panhandling, scenic landscapes, etc.

And no frankly I don’t think simply saying “the sky is falling, all is lost” and summery discount the notion that land covenants are pointless is helpful. Each generation can make a difference but only if action is taken.

[Glimmerglass]

<BLOCKQUOTE class=“ip-ubbcode-quote”><div class=“ip-ubbcode-quote-title”>quote:</div><div class=“ip-ubbcode-quote-content”>Originally posted by ashebrook:
If you move to the country from the suburbs, don’t bring the suburbs with you! </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Agreed! I recall (and not that I’m a big fan of Vicky Moon) in the book “Middleburg Mystique” a chapter or so discussing what is viewed as do’s and don’t’s in hunt country, which can go a long way into being better received by your neighbors. They included skip putting up sentry gates on the entry to your drive (this isn’t McLean!), don’t put up flood lights on your home that stay on all night, and putting up fencing too high for anything cross over and so forth.

When your house starts to look like a fortress with a mile-long ribbon of ugly blacktopped drive, landscape devoid of tree except a couple lone and sad saplings, garish iron gates and almost razor wire and 3,000 candle lights shining into your neighbor’s house all night … it begs the question, why move to the country at all?

[ashebrook]

The population discussion is so OT that I don’t want to keep it going. I just wanted to let Hunter’s Rest know that I wasn’t feeling any testiness toward her.

Rather, I thought it might be a relief to know that we are actually at the zero population point(excluding immigration)that you mentioned.

You and your housekeeper are a perfect case in point. Two women, four children. Total fertility rate = 2.0. That is less than the replacement rate of 2.1. And so it goes all over the country.

Even though it is less than politically correct to say so, we can have a much more profound and immediate effect on population growth by slowing immigration.

Another tidbit of good news is that many Mexican demographers are announcing that Mexican births are now below replacement levels. As their economy increases and population falls, their citizens will want to stay in their own country and take advantage its increased opportunities.

In the booming Washington economy, our area will continue to attract residents. I think Fauquier is doing just about everything that can be done to mitigate the growth by directing it to towns, requiring the clustering of homes, and refusing to extend water and sewer to rural areas.

[Glimmerglass]

<BLOCKQUOTE class=“ip-ubbcode-quote”><div class=“ip-ubbcode-quote-title”>quote:</div><div class=“ip-ubbcode-quote-content”>Originally posted by Piaffe56:
How many people financially support their local land trust or land conservancy group? </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

I give to several land trust organizations and groups, including the Virginia-based PEC.

[gothedistance]

Nope, you sure don’t get “the real thing” with the new crap going up. Those neophytes who buy those scab-job fake stone pseudo-manor houses only see them from afar, eye-candy from a glossy magazine, and haven’t a clue what a real class Virginia home is supposed to be – not a clue. Sad to say, none can tell a fox from a barn cat, either, bless their dear, sweet ignorant hearts.

tsk, tsk