I know what you mean, Magnolia. When I worked at a nonprofit, I was amazed at how priorities are set within organizations. Often a priority was set not because it was important, or because there was a true need, opportunity to make a real impact - but for political reasons, or to please a high dollar donor, board member or trustee, or even because the target was “sexier” than doing something like paying for a spay/neuter clinic.
I became jaded towards big charities after a while. I’d look at membership records of little old ladies - sending in 25$ to help the rainforest - and see how the money went to all sorts of things - but not one thin dime was spent on producing one measureable goal. But it still counted a “mission related” and not administrative expenses - just because of how the money was entered into the G/L.
PETA is no different. Marketing is very well funded, and people are targeted with great sophistication. It pays off. But as far as helping any animal in need - little to nothing makes its way that far down the chain.
I’ll stick with local and small charities - at least I can keep an eye on them.
I wish the IRS had the ability to police charities more - but there are over 9 million charities in the US. How Peta maintains its tax exempt status is beyond me.
[QUOTE=cholmberg;2527377]
Have you checked the price of a top quality hunting dog? :yes: They are not
cheap, esp once fully trained. I’m thrilled to hear this woman is being prosecuted.[/QUOTE]
There are a couple of people that paid $2500 for a good coon dog-and I am not sure that particular dog had papers.
They are not adopted out - they are euthanized just like all the other animals PETA takes in.
How on earth can any living being think that this is ethical treatment of animals and give these jerks money is beyond my comprehension. These are the jerks that spout that all animals should be free to live their own lives, yet they actively go out and trap them and kill them. How can any member of PETA who does this be considered to care for animals in any way?
Not that I cited this article to turn it into a Peta discussion - I thought the fox hound pilfering was relevant enough - but for those who want evidence of Peta euthanizing “found” or otherwise acquired pets, here you go with State required statistics:
Accordingly one could easily suggest that this fox hound - minding his own business and working with full markings - if not found in the van would have been likely euthanized. That is what is repugnant.
They annuall take in over $25 million from fundraising, grants, and merchandise sales despite being anything but a positive ray of hope for animal welfare. So utterly sick in my view.
There is no doubt that a lot of PETA members are true animal lovers and would never condone such acts. But their membership does support the goals of the organization - which is to eliminate all human contact with animals, and the eradication of domesticated animals.
It is true that PETA does not operate a shelter. Of course, they aren’t required to - nothing wrong with that at all. But they do take in a lot of animals. That is what the freezer is for.
I can’t give you numbers for 2006 - because PETA failed to meet the deadline for filing with Virginia. But the most recent number is 90% kill rate -unnaturally high. Extremely unnatural.
The DEA is also investigating PETA for allowing non veterinarians to administer euthanasia drugs. PETA has traveling vans with employees that euthanize animals in the back of the van. They may not still do that with the bad press they’ve received - but until the end of 2006 that was still an active practice.
In Virginia, if you surrender your animal the recipient can immediately euthanize it - even if the recipient made oral assurances that the animal would not be euthanized, but would be placed for adoption.
This law was intended to permit animal shelters to make hard decisions more quickly; as they are so often overcrowded. However, this law was used to arrive at the “not guilty” verdict for the PETA employees that obtained animals under false pretenses and killed them.
I still think the law is a good one - but it was never intended to protect the people who killed those animals, without a license to handle the drugs, in the back of a van - in full view of each other.
So hopefully the DEA will ensure PETA obeys the laws regarding who can have access to, and administer, euthanasia drugs.
It was kind of scary to learn that they have kill kits in the back of their vans - and that any employee had access to lethal drugs.
When people say things like PETA does some good things and so the bad things should be tolerated - I can’t help but think that Hitler was a vegetarian and loved animals too, built the Autobahn, and was also responsible for genocide.
Meaning - the good does not outweigh the bad. PETA isn’t ethical, and they don’t love animals. They just don’t think humans should interact with them - and that it’s better an animal die than have contact with humans.
That’s it in a nutshell.
I bet 10$ this person walks or gets a slap on the wrist.
[QUOTE=Tiki;2528889]
How on earth can any living being think that this is ethical treatment of animals and give these jerks money is beyond my comprehension. These are the jerks that spout that all animals should be free to live their own lives, yet they actively go out and trap them and kill them. How can any member of PETA who does this be considered to care for animals in any way?[/QUOTE]
It’s all about propaganda. PETA has hundreds of promotional programs that range from sending mass messages to it’s rabid followers to programs run by their regional and local members designed to appeal to the average animal lover. They target any and all demographics that are likely to provide any financial or physical support to their interests no matter how small that amount may be.
Meaning - the good does not outweigh the bad. PETA isn’t ethical, and they don’t love animals. They just don’t think humans should interact with them - and that it’s better an animal die than have contact with humans.
Their marketing is so misleading. My friend has a vegan cookbook from them with recipes by celebrities- all appearing in photos with their pets etc. I’m sure 90% of their donors do not actually share their beliefs.
I can’t believe that they would just take off his collar and not call the owner!!!
That is BS!!! That is deliberate. This is so upsetting, especially when reading the post re how common this is in that area. Why don’t they go rescue dogs that need it? Oh, that’s right, because then they would acutally be helping, and not just making a political point!
:mad::mad: I hate PETA as much as the rest of you, all they do is make life worse for most of the animals they come in contact with :mad::mad:
I do have a question though & please don’t blast me, I really know nothing about hunting. It just doesn’t seem safe to me to have hunting dogs (or any dogs for that matter) running around the country side unsupervised at all, but with collars on. Especialy when there’s other ways to identify them like tattoos. What happens if they get stuck on something & hang themselves? Does this happen much or not? I would think it would be a regular occurence…but that’s just the impression I get from this thread.
[QUOTE=plain bay;2529193]
:mad::mad: I hate PETA as much as the rest of you, all they do is make life worse for most of the animals they come in contact with :mad::mad:
I do have a question though & please don’t blast me, I really know nothing about hunting. It just doesn’t seem safe to me to have hunting dogs (or any dogs for that matter) running around the country side unsupervised at all, but with collars on. Especialy when there’s other ways to identify them like tattoos. What happens if they get stuck on something & hang themselves? Does this happen much or not? I would think it would be a regular occurence…but that’s just the impression I get from this thread.
Can someone enlighten me :)[/QUOTE]
No it’s not safe but the fact of the matter is that as long as the dog is on YOUR property, it can do what it wants unless you restrain it and many owners really aren’t concerned about their animals getting hurt because it rarely happens on their properties. When they do get hurt it usually means they were far from where they are supposed to stay (usually near the owner’s house or kennel or doghouse) or they went off the immediate property.
Jswan,
Thank you! You said it better than I could have! Courtland IS rural! This incident happened right up the road less than 1/4 mile from my house! James Thomas is a life long friend of mine who, for anyone who might have missed it, was the responding deputy on the scene! He had to call another officer to the scene once he realized it was actually his dog! What an uproar this caused for all of us locals!! In Southampton County, one thing you don’t want to do is mess with the hunters’ dogs!!! Most of these guys are seriously into their dogs and they aren’t cheap! For us women folk here, it’s a standing joke (but true too) if you don’t like hunting and fishing (or a man who does), don’t marry a man from Southampton Co!
As the only girl in the middle of 4 brothers, I learned if you can’t beat 'em, join 'em so I learned to deer hunt along with them. My dad is one of the hunt masters for our organized club and he is also a “dog driver”. Each dog driver raises and/or purchases dogs for his pack. They are trained and cared for all year long. Lots of money is invested in feeding and care as well as tracking collars to get them home. A lot of the same guys who foxhunt also deer hunt. From first hand experience I can tell you that even with tracking collars, sometimes it’s darn near impossible to catch a “running hound”. There are a lot of well trained hounds here. Some are very shy and CANNOT be caught except by their owner, which can be a big pain when you’re trying to prevent them from heading somewhere unsafe. Others jump into the first vehicle they can find or stay under your feet instead of doing their job. Some of these dogs hunt so well that they WILL NOT stop running until they are worn completely out. Try catching a dog who is hot on the tail of a herd of deer and see what happens! If he’s not ready to be caught, you won’t get near him. BTDT! Again it is very rural and even though you may have a tracking collar on the dog, you don’t always have access. We have some very large swamps here! There’s also the problem of politics. Some landowners don’t allow permission to go on properties, a few rival hunts have been known to catch a dog in one place, deactivate the collar, and use the dog to hunt somewhere else. Oh, did I mention the collars are battery powered and the magnet has to be removed before release? This happens on occasion. A collar with the magnet is useless. So is a dead battery. Some of these dogs who won’t stop or are difficult to catch often run themselves to the point of looking like they are starved near to death. Another thing, each club has their own set of dog drivers. 99% of all of them have tracking collars and each club, like their CB radio channel, will have one frequency for their collars so they can all track each others dogs. I have seen every year, how the guys, dad, brothers, and myself have stayed out long into the night trying to round up these dogs. Whether the dogs are sent out to run day or night, I can guarantee that the vast majority of the owners want to get them back safely and as soon as possible!
Regretably, there are those every year who buy dogs each fall, hunt them, and then just simply let them go at the end of the season. That is not the majority I can assure you.
I’m sorry if I’m rambling but this still gets me fired up, even though it happened awhile back.
i have to agree a fit hound who’s been running is thin, much like the differnce between a fit racehorse and my backyard fatties
believe me i live very rural, courtland would be the big city, in my county we have no incorporated towns
the last 2 deer hounds that showed up here had tracking collars on, when they came up on my proch they had some scratches on them and their paws were skinned up, when i called the owner, he had said he was traning some new dogs at the hunt club and those 2 had gotten away, they had been gone all night, the hunt club was a good 15 miles way and i doubt these dogs ran as the crow flies, all the superficial wounds were fresh, no old scars, both in good weight, perhaps a little dehydrated, i gave them some water, no food, and the guy was here to collect them in about an hour, to me they were lost and the owner agreed they had gotten themselves lost, if i had assumed they were just hunting they might not have been reunited with their owner, i figure if the tracking collar is working soon enough the owner will show up and if it isn’t i’m sure they appreciate the call, i know i would, anyway, the dog is on my property and doesn’t belong here
my main issue with running dogs at night is i do have livestock, granted just a handful of goats and a couple of horses but i’d just as soon grab a loose dog with a collar and return the dog to the owner. i don’t feel like spending the night with a loose dog running my goats around and driving my own dogs nuts
one can be sensible about these things, a very emaciated dog showed up here, i think she had been staying away from people but was starting to get desperate, anyway, she had a collar and i called the owner, the first thing i said was i think i might have your dog how long has she been missing, if he had said since yesterday i would have called a/c and let them handle it the dog had 100’s of ticks and fleas on it and was terribly thin, but the guy said she was gone 3 weeks, and he was thrilled someone rounded her up and kept her in one spot so he could come get her, she was abot 11 miles from his house, she seemed pretty happy to see him
i don’t see how anyone can justify snatching a dog up and removing it’s id and taking off with it, i can understand having driven these roads for years, that sometimes you see the same loose dog up and down the raod, and i will call a/c and let them know to go get it, i’d rather not run it over
You won’t find much flaming going on in the hunting forum. I’ve never met a bunch of nicer (and crazier) people. Eventers come in a very close second.
LexinVA answered your question, but I’ll expand on it since I had a lot of caffeine this morning.
There are several schools of thought on the use of collars, and I don’t know who is right. Maybe nobody is…
Identification can take several forms: tattoo, collar, microchip, paint, that sort of thing. The problem with a microchip is that unless you happen to have a reader with you - there is no way to identify the owner. If the shelter has a reader - it may or may not be compatible, and requires the finder to drive to the shelter (if they know where it is) and turn the animal over. Which is fine - but requires a lot more effort.
Then there are those that are so concerned about a dog getting hung up - that they refuse to put any type of collar on a dog. Those hounds may or may not be tattooed or microchipped - again - those methods require additional investigation to discover the owner.
Tracking collars are a whole other ball game. Those aren’t for identification necessarily - they are for locating your dog. It helps hunters find an errant hound, or even to locate one that may have gotten hung up.
I’m referring to ethical, responsible folks - not the lowlifes that dump their dogs at the end of hunting season. Honestly, I’d prefer they shot the dog rather than set it loose. But I guess that’s the subject of a different thread.
I don’t know what the answer is. I guess a lot could depend on the area hunted. If it’s heavily fenced with mesh, or has a lot of old downed wire, a hunter might make a different decision than a hunter who hunts in open country or lightly wooded areas. I’m too much of a novice to really give you a more educated answer.
In the case Glimmerglass posted about - removing the tracking collar would result in the owner not being able to ever locate his dog - much less identify it. Even if the dog had been microchipped, I can assure you the intent was not to reunite the dog with its owner. PETA does not have holding facilities for animals. Live animals, anyway.
I only hope that the deputy was able to obtain fingerprints off the discarded collar - linking the accused to its removal.
Again - this was part of a pattern of disappearances.
REINRIDER - my stepfamily was the same way. They are farmers in Buckingham County. If you wanted to do anything besides sit around and listen to the old folks tell stories about people you never met - you went hunting with your cousins. Your only other choice was to pick and snap beans, help can, weed, milk cows… you get the picture.
One thing that you really have to be careful about is PETA infiltrating your group. PETA actually puts money, time, and training into getting it’s members into legitimate positions where they will carry out PETA orders even if they go against the very bylaws of your group. For example, they have been known to monitor shelters with no-kill policies to see if they are in need of workers and they will send a member who is trained in euthanasia to work there and kill animals on the sly. Imagine the kind of damage they could do to a horse rescue or hunt club kennel if they planted someone in there! Here is a quote that sums up PETA’s view on adoption and no-kill directly from their President: "PETA believes euthanasia is the kindest gift to a dog or cat unwanted and unloved."Hell, I wouldn’t be surprised if they have property around and near hunt clubs they can use as command centers for their operations. They have a lot of money and nobody is really sure where any of it goes other than to promotional material and to pay some salaries. Given how easy it is to hide things from the IRS without actually breaking the law, I bet if PETA was audited, they would come up a little bit too clean.
Ah…I probably will be sorry that I asked, but what possible (distorted) rationalization does PETA state as their justification for euthanizing a healthy animal?
LexinVa - I know for a fact that PETA does this. When I worked at The Nature Conservancy, we were the victims of a violent PETA protest. They stormed the building. They knew things about the layout of the offices and their occupants that only an employee could have known.
The road was closed by protesters milling about, some laying down on the street - and one guy was in a pig suit. The Arlington SWAT team had to be called out, and some of the employees had to barricade the main door because people were trying to break doors down. They also splashed red paint all over the front of the building. They also took control of every phone booth near the building and refused to allow anyone to us them. They used the phones to alert the media of their presence.
They tried to do the same thing the next year - but this time employees were prepared and the protest fizzled. I was sent out to watch the phones (this was in the mid 90’s before everyone and his brother had a cell phone).
Anyway - it is standard practice for PETA to place people in employment, and have the person spy. But it’s very careful orchestrated - any notes, or video taken are purposefully manipulated. Very skillful.
It’s the only time I’ve ever really been frightened for my safety. I really felt hate emanating from those people. True hatred.
Oh - the reason we were targeted was because we were removing invasive species from a preserve in Hawaii - feral pigs. They were destroying endangered habitat.
[QUOTE=Whistlejacket;2529484]
Ah…I probably will be sorry that I asked, but what possible (distorted) rationalization does PETA state as their justification for euthanizing a healthy animal?
Thanks…err…I think! ;)[/QUOTE]
Their rationalization is that the animal is unwanted at the moment they kill it therefore it is better to send it to Heaven then allow it to continue living in Hell. Frankly, I see PETA as a terrorist organization much like Hamas or Al Qaeda though somewhat less violent most of the time. In fact they operate much like a terrorist organization in many ways if you examine how they carry out their activities and the compartmentalized structure of the group. Notice how nobody ever really goes after PETA in court when something violent or illegal happens because the members are “acting on their own.” I think that says a lot about what they really are and what they are willing to do to achieve their goals.
Most around here also have id tags stamped on the tracking collar as well as the regular collar. As for the incident here in Courtland, another neighbor noticed the van stopping and witnessed the PETA pests remove the collar and throw it in the ditch. They also recognized the markings on the dog so they knew who it belonged to before making the call to the sherriff’s office.
JSwan…can’t tell you how much I began to hate the summertime!!! Canned so many veggies I swore I’d never ever have another garder as long as there was a grocery store nearby! Not only did we have a gardern bigger than most folks yard, my mom was so much of the old school waste not, she even would go to the neighbors’ gardens and pick theirs as well!!! She still can’t stand to let stringbeans stay on the vine long after she has run out of jars!! I honestly used to cry every summer when school let out!
Not only was I the only girl in the family, but added to that, I was the only girl in the whole neighborhead! Boy did I get picked on! No such thing as non contact or flag football either!:lol: Can you say “TOMBOY?” :D:lol:
Wouldn’t trade it for anything though! At least I can take care of myself.
As a person who picks up stray dogs all the time, I really appreciate finding any method of identifying owners. We have found and reunited owners’ the following breeds: Corgi, St. Bernard, Schnouzer (sp, Little grey dog), several mutts, and one Staffordshire Terrier. The ST has gotten out again since we found him last Labor Day. He had a rabies tag last labor day, but not on the subsequent outing. Really nice dog too, I hope they put the rabies tag back on him.
The peaches reference is to going to the Farmer’s Market in Forest Park, GA, and coming home and peeling peaches until the juice ran off my elbows. We snapped peas and strung beans for canning too. It does bring back memories.
[QUOTE=magnolia73;2527332]
I’m also suprised that it is a felony to steal a dog. Normally felony v misdemeanor is based on value of items stolen.QUOTE]
I’m sure 90% of their donors do not actually share their beliefs.
Most of these guys are seriously into their dogs and they aren’t cheap! For us women folk here, it’s a standing joke (but true too) if you don’t like hunting and fishing (or a man who does), don’t marry a man from Southampton Co!