Good Morning Everyone!
So I have been reading Endurance News and other publications to find out more about endurance on this side of the Atlantic and I have to say I am really surprised by the price of “proven” endurance horses in the classifieds.
Most of them seem to be around the same price as a (very) green (read, lunatic) OTTB eventing prospect…
As a comparison a FEI 100 mile horse in Europe is usually priced in the $300,000 / $500,000 bracket (partially because of Middle-Eastern money in the sport there but also because endurance horses are valued similarly than a “newer” Grand Prix jumper).
Why such a difference between disciplines and continents?
I have not been in the sport for a few years now, but my impression from the past was that prices were low due to the numbers of endurance “prospects” available and most riders’ “do it yourself” attitude. Also the folks I saw/participated with were not particularly rich, but loved the sport.
Most seemed to pick up an arab that did not fit into other disciplines for less then 1k. The purpose bred ones were STB/arab crosses - also not very expensive. I only saw one stallion competing - he was doing 100s, and his stud fee was below 1k.
Perhaps the elite levels are different then what I know.
American endurance is so different than FEI/ international. We do like to bring up our own horses and there are so many dirt cheap Arabs and other breeds for that matter that are perfectly capable of meeting our personal endurance goals that we just have no reason to spend big bucks on a horse that can win big races.
The do-it-yourself attitude is great. But then how does anyone make a living riding endurance horses here? Or even just somehow off-set the cost of training and competing their horses for amateurs? 
It takes a lot of work to condition and prepare a horse for long-distance riding, so how come this hard work is recognized in other disciplines - with the option of selling on a horse once you’ve prepared him for instance in order to finance ‘campaigning’ the next one - but not in endurance?
Maybe the American endurance riders need to start exporting to Europe. Imagine that! 
I knew of a rider/trainer that sold some of her horses to the Arabs for endurance. Have no idea what those horses brought. Did not sound like a happening market. Most folks seemed very devoted self-financed amateurs.
Honestly, I do not know how they afforded it. After putting a road worthy rig that can go midwest to west and back, taking time off work to get to the competitions, there , and back. Travel expenses, etc. etc…it seems to add up really quick.
Great people to hang out with. I have my doubts as to possibility of making a living strictly as an endurance rider/trainer.
[QUOTE=Rohello;7532030]
The do-it-yourself attitude is great. But then how does anyone make a living riding endurance horses here? Or even just somehow off-set the cost of training and competing their horses for amateurs?
It takes a lot of work to condition and prepare a horse for long-distance riding, so how come this hard work is recognized in other disciplines - with the option of selling on a horse once you’ve prepared him for instance in order to finance ‘campaigning’ the next one - but not in endurance?[/QUOTE]
Most endurance riders here are strictly riding for fun and their own personal goals…not racing. We enjoy the journey of bringing a horse along and most of us are not looking for a top notch racehorse, but a safe, sound, fun riding companion.
There are some US riders who race who have been selling horses to the Arabs for reportedly 6 figures. Some go to an international race and come back with money instead of their horses. There’s been some backlash about that.
There are some riders in the US who I believe make a living this way and also leasing horses for big rides and training. But it really is an amateur sport…Thank Goodness!!..for the most part so there is not a lot of demand in general.
How interesting to read of the diversity of experiences in the sport! And how nice to see that so many people here are just doing it for the love of being out there with their horse. They sound like great people!
An endurance rider I know sold her former year-end mileage champ to the Saudis for $50,000. Horse had some 7,000 miles on him and x-rayed totally clean. Never had taken a lame step.
Earlier I convinced her to buy a mare I had been leasing to breed to Kinor, but I lost Kinor before he could breed this mare. She REALLY didn’t want to buy the mare because “it has such an ugly head.” But I talked her AND the owners into it…she paid $1500 for the mare.
2 yrs later she sold it to the Saudis for $15K. I think it had about 3 -4 rides on it by then…a LD and afew multi-day.
As for the discrepancy in price, it’s not much different for dressage horses. I recently sold a REALLY nice homebred filly (coming 3) for only $15,000…I was told over and over again that a horse of her quality would have gone for twice that in Germany…
trouble is that anyone who sells to UAE, Saudis etc for big money needs to be able to live with themselves afterwards as I believe the average life expectancy of a top endurance horse in group vii countries is between 12 and 24 months :sadsmile:
[QUOTE=moosie;7536885]
trouble is that anyone who sells to UAE, Saudis etc for big money needs to be able to live with themselves afterwards as I believe the average life expectancy of a top endurance horse in group vii countries is between 12 and 24 months :sadsmile:[/QUOTE]
Stats on this? Who did the study? While I have no doubt the Saudis are rough on their horses, I seriously doubt they report every horse that dies so we in the West can record it.
That being said, I DID ask my (now ex) friend how she felt about selling the gelding; she’d had him since he was 2 and did all his riding & training. Apparently it didn’t bother her much. Of course, I had busted my butt getting her the deal on the mare (for $1500 and she got to make payments!) and another guy put a year’s worth of training on the mare before she started competing…and my “friend” didn’t give either of us a dime…
So I’m thinking she wasn’t too emotional over the whole thing…
The stats were published on the clean endurance fb page in a link - but dont know if I can find it again! Dont think a lot of the info re the scale of abuse etc was as widely known as it is now even a couple of years ago.
[QUOTE=moosie;7538276]
The stats were published on the clean endurance fb page in a link - but dont know if I can find it again! Dont think a lot of the info re the scale of abuse etc was as widely known as it is now even a couple of years ago.[/QUOTE]
Curious as to how they collected these stats. Did they track every horse the Saudis rode? And starting from what point? Did the Saudis agree to report every death of a competition horse to CleanEndurance?
Again, it’s obvious for all that the Saudis have a very different idea of horse care than we do…I’m not arguing that. But I really like “facts” to be actual, real FACTS (in any situation, not just this), rather than speculation from a person or group who just disagrees or wants to change a situation.
And I’m thinking tracking the life span of ALL the horses owned & competed by the Saudis would be difficult or impossible. In other words, really tough to get the data to back up the statement.
yes I do get your point Kyzteke - some of the stats must have been gleaned from the FEI data base I suspect but no idea of how they were worked out. I think the link may have been an article by Pippa Cuckson of H & H so as Im now curious I will try and trawl through the Clean Endurance page and see if I can find it (though clearly its slightly “off topic” :yes:) Will post a link if I can find it! (but it was quite a while ago)
http://www.horsesportinternational.com/2014/03/ten-thousand-words/ - ok its mentioned here but its CAREER length - obviously much easier to check on!:winkgrin:.
I would also assume that they put a lot of the horses down when they are done with them in a year or two. I don’t think there is any market for finish-is-to-win endurance horses and I’m not sure about the trail horse or pleasure horse market there.
Two points: First, you may be mixing up your Arab countries… Saudi Arabia is not the UAE and most of the negative news seem to come out of the UAE, Bahrain, and Qatar.
Secondly, I’m just back from an Endurance ride where someone overrode their horse to fifth place and a few hours later the mare colicked… I bet she was cheap, so cheap that they didn’t have to worry about that kind of thing 'cause you can always get another one, right? [sarcasm emoticon here.] This was only the horse’s fourth competition, ever…
I do wish Endurance horses in the US had more monetary value. I believe it would make people act more responsibly, especially those with multiple horses.
[QUOTE=moosie;7539596]
http://www.horsesportinternational.com/2014/03/ten-thousand-words/ - ok its mentioned here but its CAREER length - obviously much easier to check on!:winkgrin:.[/QUOTE]
AH, now THAT makes more sense. And actually that’s what I was thinking in the first place…it was the length of the horses’ career, not their life span. Still very different from what we do here w/endurance horses…where many folks take pride in the fact their horses have been going for 5-10 yrs.
I suspect the mares do better than geldings…at least a mare always has a “back up” career.
And as for what they do after wards… I’m not so sure we Americans can claim bragging right about being superior in that regard either…we produce alot of “throw away” horses as well.
In fact, my local CLs just had an ad for a whole herd of retired racing Arabs with (per the owner) “excellent Polish & Russian lines; healthy, sound horses.”
She wants 'em GONE or she will sell them all to the horse dealer to run through the auction. Price? Your choice, $500. And from the sound of the ad, they are looking abit rough…
[QUOTE=Lieselotte;7539816]
Two points: First, you may be mixing up your Arab countries… Saudi Arabia is not the UAE and most of the negative news seem to come out of the UAE, Bahrain, and Qatar.
Secondly, I’m just back from an Endurance ride where someone overrode their horse to fifth place and a few hours later the mare colicked… I bet she was cheap, so cheap that they didn’t have to worry about that kind of thing 'cause you can always get another one, right? [sarcasm emoticon here.] This was only the horse’s fourth competition, ever…
I do wish Endurance horses in the US had more monetary value. I believe it would make people act more responsibly, especially those with multiple horses.[/QUOTE]
Yes, my bad on the Saudi thing…I’m not very informed on which is which. Although I’m not sure their animal practices are very different…
As for the horses having more value…yeah, I’m sure the horse was cheap to being with, but after putting tons of training & time into them, you DO end up with quite an investment.
The unfortunate fact is that ALL horses are at our mercy when it comes to sports and some people make bad choices, some people just don’t care and sometimes stuff just happens, despite our best intentions.
I used to work for a race horse trainer named Frank Whitely. He trained (among others) Ruffian. He TRULY cared about each and everyone of his horses and if they even took one bad step he would pull them and have the vet go over them with a fine touch comb.
He would NEVER put a horse in danger knowingly. But despite his best care & intentions, we all know what happened to Ruffian.
Not to wax philosophical but none of us (horse or human) can escape the tragedies of Life…sometimes it just turns bad for all of us…
Kyzteke - Racing Arabs are not the same as Endurance Arabs (or Endurance Racing Arabs). There is a whole racetrack industry for Arabians, just as there is for TBs, Standardbreds, Quarter Horses, Appaloosas, etc.
There are not many who specialize in breeding Endurance Arabs, and they are generally a smaller scale operation. But they can occasionally end up in a similar situation - usually it’s when the actual breeder passes away and the spouse or children want to be rid of the horses.
