Vets and others: what illnesses look like HGE?

[keysfins]

An acquaintance in the Rottie world, in Ohio, had two adult male dogs present with signs/symptoms of Hemorrhagic GastroEnteritis (HGE) last week (afternoon of July 11). Both had sudden onset of bloody diarrhea and vomiting, and were immediately brought to the vet.

HGE was the presumptive diagnosis, even though it was unusual that two dogs in the household came down with it at the same time. No fever in either dog. The dogs were treated with supportive therapy (IV fluids, meds).

One dog survived, the other dog did not–symptoms were worse, higher PCV, and in spite of treatment efforts, the dog went in to hypovolemic shock and died July 12 in the early morning, less than 24 hours after onset. Owners heartbroken, but thankful that at least one dog came home. Necropsy was done, results not yet back.

A few days later, on July 17, their bitch began with the same symptoms, and was rushed to the vet. Treatment was started immediately, and she seems to be recovering, but is not yet home.

AFAIK, HGE is NOT a contagious disease. Vets are now suspecting a contagious infectious agent.

What other disease or illness would present with copious bloody diarrhea and vomiting, and progress so severely within a few hours? (Parvo was negative for all three.)

Any thoughts very much appreciated.

[Simkie]

Toxin in the food?

Salmonella?

The really bad kind of E. coli … O157:H7?

Clostridium difficile?

How terribly sad to lose one so quickly

[keysfins]

Thanks, Simkie. It was SO sudden.

Samples taken for toxins, Salmonella, etc.; results not yet in. I will see if they considered the E. coli nasty version. I don’t know if C. diff would progress so quickly. Home environment is meticulous indoors and outdoors, and the dogs are with their people 24/7.

Is there anything that a wild animal could transmit to the dogs, passing through the yard, that would cause this rapid illness?

[Simkie]

I wouldn’t think that something just walking through could really make them SO sick SO fast, but perhaps if they caught it, killed and and all dined? Maybe then…?

[islgrl]

I would be worried about rat poison or the like…

[hoopoe]

rat bait poisoning ( broudificomb / warfarin ) poison

[Marshfield]

Salmonella, campylobacter, e. coli, or clostridium

[pezk]

Could a neighbor etc have poisoned the dogs?
Vets dont always want to think of nastiness by neighbors. They would rather look for other causes, but 3 dogs with very sudden onset, id be suspicious.

[keysfins]

[QUOTE=Simkie;8754127]
I wouldn’t think that something just walking through could really make them SO sick SO fast, but perhaps if they caught it, killed and and all dined? Maybe then…?[/QUOTE]

No, no dining on wild critters. I was thinking more about something viral or bacterial that a critter could leave in droppings or something, that the dogs could pick up on their paws.

Rat bait— owners never use it, and it would be just awful if someone put it in their yard. However, how many things could cause two dogs to get so sick at the same time, and then the third dog a week or so later?

I hope something comes back from the lab tests, like Salmonella, Campy, etc. at least to give the owners some answers and closure. And since this has the vets puzzled, any possibility will be investigated, including possibility of poisoning.

[Marshfield]

@keysfins;8754440

Rat bait— owners never use it, and it would be just awful if someone put it in their yard. However, how many things could cause two dogs to get so sick at the same time, and then the third dog a week or so later?

The hemoconcentration largely rules out rat bait

[keysfins]

[QUOTE=Marshfield;8754522]
The hemoconcentration largely rules out rat bait[/QUOTE]

Thank you, Marshfield. That is a relief!

I will update if any lab info comes back from the necropsy. The Rottie world is a great community, and these owners have received a huge swell of support, prayers and concern. I know they will share whatever they find out, if only to warn other Rottie people.

ETA: Owner just messaged me that the vets are sure it was not poison or tainted food. Looking at the possibility of a virus.

[Horsegal984]

[QUOTE=pezk;8754412]
Could a neighbor etc have poisoned the dogs?
Vets dont always want to think of nastiness by neighbors. They would rather look for other causes, but 3 dogs with very sudden onset, id be suspicious.[/QUOTE]

Intentional poisonings are actually pretty rare, which is way many vets discount the possibility. I think I have seen one in over a decade in vet med.

I would be suspicious of viral or bacterial causes, definately sounds infectious. Do they by chance feed raw?

[keysfins]

No, no raw food. Checked their dry food for any recalls, and even got a new bag after the two males got sick, just in case… And then their female got sick.

[Pancakes]

Endotoxemia can cause all of the symptoms, i.e. create a life-threatening situation from vomiting and diarrhea. Usually you need a bacterial agent, such as salmonella, e.coli, camplyobacter, to result in that. Viral diseases can lead to endotoxemia by way of secondary bacterial infection. Viruses such as coronavirus, rotavirus, etc. are not going to test positive on parvo snap tests but they also affect the GI tract.

Any other hematologic abnormalities? If the liver and kidneys were unaffected then I’d say it’s a GI illness first and foremost, ruling out MOST toxins…

HGE is not an “disease” per say but a name given to a constellation of symptoms – vomiting, bloody diarrhea/hematochezia, and the accompanying hypovolemia (elevated PCV in relation to total solids) that seems to characterize it. Most times the causative agent is never identified or discovered.

I am sorry the dog passed away…was it under the care of a 24 hour vet receiving fluids? Curious to know the details. I’ve had a few cases go into SIRS with hypoglycemia and all that, but haven’t lost any that have been in our 24 hour hospital. It’s remarkable how much fluid they need in order to keep them afloat. In a Rottie, I’m sure it was liters and liters that was needed to restore volume status. Hope the necropsy sheds some light on it.

[keysfins]

Pancakes, yes, all the dogs were in 24 hour care, with fluids running and antibiotics (don’t know which one). Can endotoxins hit so quickly and severely? Would they be detectable if present?

I will post any info shared on necropsy results.

[JanM]

Pancreatitis? My little dog had that a few times, and I found out after one bout that she was apparently eating Virginia creeper-I didn’t know that even had berries, but it did. She had bloody diarrhea, vomiting, and it was awful. It’s been so long that I don’t still have her records, but that was her diagnosis.

[Pancakes]

[QUOTE=keysfins;8755005]
Pancakes, yes, all the dogs were in 24 hour care, with fluids running and antibiotics (don’t know which one). Can endotoxins hit so quickly and severely? Would they be detectable if present?

I will post any info shared on necropsy results.[/QUOTE]

Yes, they can… and no, there isn’t a “test” for endotoxemia, per say, but certain biomarkers may have been present that indicate sepsis (if related to bacterial agent) or SIRS (which can happen with any disease). A patient that is persistently hypotensive, is having arrhythmias, has coagulopathies or is going into DIC, or has other biomarkers and/or clinical findings can indicate that is what is happening. Aggressive fluid support with colloids, pressors, and broad-spectrum antibiotics or plasma transfusions are often needed. Obviously, sometimes it’s not enough.

If there were kidney or liver abnormalities, the list of possible causes broadens greatly.

[jetsmom]

What about toxic foods? I’m not sure of which sympTom’s match. But things like sugr free gum (xylitol), some peanut butter also contains it, grapes, raisins…

[Pancakes]

[QUOTE=jetsmom;8755328]
What about toxic foods? I’m not sure of which sympTom’s match. But things like sugr free gum (xylitol), some peanut butter also contains it, grapes, raisins…[/QUOTE]

Raisins/grapes cause kidney failure in SOME dogs (not all equivocally…it is an idiosyncratic reaction it seems). Xylitol causes hypoglycemia initially, then liver enzyme elevation. Both of these toxins are slow to cause symptoms and do not come on as described.

The bloodwork would determine an etiology, if it was available.

[jetsmom]

[QUOTE=Pancakes;8755359]
Raisins/grapes cause kidney failure in SOME dogs (not all equivocally…it is an idiosyncratic reaction it seems). Xylitol causes hypoglycemia initially, then liver enzyme elevation. Both of these toxins are slow to cause symptoms and do not come on as described.

The bloodwork would determine an etiology, if it was available.[/QUOTE]

Thanks for the info! I knew they were bad for fogs but was unsure of symptoms.
With your veterinary knowledge, could parvo be an issue when there is no fever? Since all those dogs got sick/died and had bloody diarhea and vomitting… Aren’t rots more prone to parvo than some breeds?