Obviously I failed misserably to show a video of my 2 boys. With over 100 views not a single comment on Strider, a beautiful easy moving boy who carried me for 17 years without a single let down. Not a word.
As for Shadow he gave me fits trying to keep him broke but that day was the day he quite fighting and today is another beautiful trained animal making his name in the horse world.
Again I won’t try to defend what and how I do things but in the end I would challenge any of you to match either of them.
Thanks guys
Wow. I take back my complaints about Seabiscuit. He always stood still to mount and waits for me to get ready. Sea looks just like Strider, same color and markings. He is full Russian bred. Maybe that’s his problem, just don’t unnerstand inglish.
Thanks for posting.
[QUOTE=Bank of Dad;3308461]
Wow. I take back my complaints about Seabiscuit. He always stood still to mount and waits for me to get ready. Sea looks just like Strider, same color and markings. He is full Russian bred. Maybe that’s his problem, just don’t unnerstand inglish.
Thanks for posting.[/QUOTE]
While Shadow gave me alot of problems accepting me he turned into the best horse I have ever owned. Strider is a fantastic horse with absolutely no quit in him and I believe he could outrun just about anything he lacks the intelligence of Shadow.
…he lacks the intelligence of Shadow. Show Shadow something 3 times and he’s got it…
[QUOTE=Auventera Two;3308706]
[/QUOTE]
I know. Shadow is very smart and a quick learner. I often wondered if they tried breaking him and he beat them. He fought me for almost a month, he would accept but the next time it was a fight all over again then suddenly it was over.
The bit lasted a week or two and he was out of it. Sorry if I appear lazy but 17 stitches were not fun.
I would have preferred to see less 'bitting up ’ sorry, but I feel its the lazy way to start a horse, and I’m sure I am not alone in that thought.
getting on a green horse, from the ground, as the rider reefs on the saddle to mount, can cause behaviour issue. And you can see by the video that young horse is startled when you put your leg over him - and so it did cause an issue. A mounting block until you’ve have more then a few solid good rides on a horse is a wise option, - especially on a young horse, who is also unbalanced, not riding ‘fit’ yet, and especially not used to a rider, let alone a rider clambering onto his back. The bitting up, and the helper both reefing on the horse head when he object. eh… I’ll pass on, it speaks for itself, as well as does the loud yelling you can hear.
The dog, and large open area. … more asking for failure imo
I know perfectly well there is this style fo training, get on, let her rip.
In my experience, it’s not the best style, and can lengthen rather then shorten the training
Several things in that video I saw, were setting a young horse up to fail, and then punishing it for…
failing.
I’m not impressed. It could have been accomplished in a much cleaner/safer/better for the horse to learn fashion.
I’m not sure what your reason was for putting up this video. If it was to impress, it was an utter failure. You really are totally clueless.
Welcome to my ignore list.
I’ve been thinking all morning on how to keep my comments focused and positive. I’ll give it a shot…
Norval - if you have never read Cesar Milan’s book on dog psychology - I strongly recommend it. It is beneficial to those who work with horses as well. It deals with the concepts of communication species to species, and controlling negative emotions and energy.
I bought this book at an airport kiosk while waiting for a flight, having watched Cesar on tv for years. My husband and I adopted a VERY abused Weimaraner last October. They are a high strung breed to begin with and a lot of “dog people” believe that once a Weim is abused and “ruined” there is never any hope. They very easily get agressive and fear bite.
Using Cesar’s techniques of controlling negative emotional energy, and communicating in a way she understands, this dog is now 100% safe and trustworthy off-leash. All the bad habits she came with are gone. She knows all her commands. She respects humans. She is a very very happy, well adjusted dog. This dog came with stories of being tied up outside in the snow with no protection and beatings with a coat hanger, hiding under the bed for weeks at a time at the foster home, etc. She was dumped and went through the pound system before ariving at the rescue.
My hubs and I aren’t some “super dog trainers.” We just really understand and agree with Cesar’s concepts of controlling negative energy and emotions and communicating with the dog in a way that shows her we are firm, confident, trustworthy leaders. We didn’t drill her for weeks on commands, or “assert our authority” to deal with her bad behaviors.
These concepts have served me well with my horses also. Horses don’t understand being jabbed with big spurs and big bits and being forced in the deep water and allowed to panic, any more than a dog understands being tied up in the snow and beaten with a coat hanger. They don’t understand having their heads tied up to their girth for “breaking.” They don’t understand being run through fences and falling down half a dozen times per year because their rider is taking stupid chances and making bad decisions. There is NEVER any good excuse for these actions out of a rider or trainer.
Horses understand calm, compassionate, firm leadership in a language that makes sense to them. A horse cannot learn when it is scared and in flight mode. Horses understand herd dynamics with a firm and emotionally stable leader. Animals won’t follow a leader that they preceive to be weak or incompetent. They will take charge and divert to another leader or attempt to become leader themself.
I’m not all sunshine and butterflies. I’ve administered some ass-whoopins to my horses when they needed it. I have 2 VERY dominant/alpha mares and ocassionally they meet THIS alpha mare head on and one’s gonna come out the winner and I’ll make darned sure it isn’t them! But that’s quite rare and it’s normal herd dynamics. It’s just something you deal with when you have alpha mares. We have a “discussion” over who is the boss, they back down, and there’s no more challenge for months at a time. That’s different than “breaking” a baby who doesn’t know anything.
I’ll hold my specific comments on the two videos because I just can’t seem to formulate a positive way to put them.
[QUOTE=Auventera Two;3309642]
Norval - if you have never read Cesar Milan’s book on dog psychology - I strongly recommend it. It is beneficial to those who work with horses as well. It deals with the concepts of communication species to species, and controlling negative emotions and energy.
.[/QUOTE]
Vickey I dominated the dog obedience field for almost 12 years. I won everything from simple CD to the more complex Schutzen trials for guard dogs. Tracking tricks you name it.
I did dog shows almost weekly for schools, hosipitals, cubs, browniess and was featured at a big sportsman show for a week.
I appeared on Kids world alot, was interview for 1/2 hour on another TV show and provided the trained dogs for a 1/2 hour show that never went over.
Newpapers regularly did features on Lance.
No I don’t need lessons on training dogs. I also teach horses the same way .
I don’t pussy foot around and my horses do not dink around with me. As for making them afraid of me nothing could be further from the truth.My reputation for training is good with those that know me.
Again I won’t try to defend what and how I do things but in the end I would challenge any of you to match either of them.
If you aren’t willing to put, and leave, your money where your mouth is, you only succeed in appearing to be a spoiled child who’s prone to lashing out and taking his toys away.
Put your videos back up and let them stay there. I only watched a few seconds of the first one, where there’s two horses trotting and loping toward the camera= it’s grainy footage and I got bored. Put it back up and have a back bone about it, LOL- I can’t ‘match’ either of them if you won’t leave it up.
[QUOTE=Auventera Two;3309642]
. Horses don’t understand being jabbed with big spurs and big bits and being forced in the deep water and allowed to panic, any more than a dog understands being tied up in the snow and beaten with a coat hanger. They don’t understand having their heads tied up to their girth for “breaking.” They don’t understand being run through fences and falling down half a dozen times per year because their rider is taking stupid chances and making bad decisions. There is NEVER any good excuse for these actions out of a rider or trainer.
.[/QUOTE]
Yes I wear spurs. Have you ever seen them?? The ones I wear??? They are hand made out of stainless by me and no wheel, just a big blunt rounded end.
Big Bit. I call it a big bit, have posted a picture of me daily bit. It is actuallly called a training bit and the shanks do NOT hang below his jaw.
Run through Fences. He choose that. I certianly wanted him to stop, I was using side pulls at the time. I switched to a snaffle and he ran right through that also and dumped me hard.
Falling half dozen times a year. Yes I do. I cover alot of country, roughly 2500 miles a year and yes he trips, steps in holes, breaks through the snow crust, breaks through ice on shallow water, things are hidden under snow and my best riding time is winter, no bugs, cool, cold alot and thousands of miles of snowmobile trails, groomed highways so to speak.
Students keep bothering me. Will
get back in a few minutes
Quote by Shadow14: Again I won’t try to defend what and how I do things but in the end I would challenge any of you to match either of them.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o4iKHRjLAEw
This is pretty boring. But it’s my Arab the 3rd time I ever long-lined her. You can see some resistance and head tossing here and there. It comes with time. They all test the waters a little bit. I don’t have any recent video but she now does it like a pro, in a Myler Level 1 snaffle. 
I use long lining for confidence building and showing the horse she can lead up front through scary places. I think the more you subject them to calmly and confidently, the more their confidence grows. I am always careful to put a horse in a position where they can be successful.
And this is another boring video. It’s of a very young WB mare who was “fried” by a rough trainer. He was tying her head to her stirrups to teach her to give at the poll, and putting plastic bags on her then throwing a lariat at her to make her run around the round pen in the name of desensitization. The mare was absolutely terrified of ropes, and any time you tried to free longe her she’d gallop herself into the ground. I put a longe line on her and established this decent trot within the first session. She needed to know she wasn’t excpected to gallop around like a fruitcake skiing off the walls and running from the human in the middle. If you made any kind of sudden movement she would shoot forward in borderline panic. I had her for 6 weeks and saw a total turnound in her behavior and fear level.
I believe in part it was her breeding that she was so hot and reactive, but the point in this rambling is that I try to always teach horses with tact, compassion, and firmness without anger or pain.
If any time I have a horse rear or “fight” then it’s time to STOP and figure out what went wrong and go back to the place BEFORE the disaster struck and fix it there.
This was one of the first sessions I had with her:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y5x3cATEw6E
Not great videos (quality) but I hope you can see that I’m working here with 2 different young horses with 2 COMPLETELY different personalities and the horses are doing somehing NEW to them. They are not panicking or fighting and nobody is yelling or screaming. The atmosphere is pretty calm and sedate.
I looked briefly at the videos when they were up. Strider looked nice. With Shadow, I dont get why you would think that kind of behavior is cool. I have worked with my share of young horses and by the time I go to get on the first time, it is no big deal. Its actually kind of boring and anticlimatic. I’ve done a lot of ground work, bellied up on them, put my weight all around their necks, backs, butts, saddled them many times. I also get on first in a quiet, controlled environment.
If I had a horse react like in thet video, its dangerous, completely unnecesary and uncalled for, and I’d go back quite a few steps in training and figure out what went wrong before I’d get on. I mean, sure you can break a horse like this and most horses can turn out ok in spite of what we do, but why the heck would you want to?
[QUOTE=Auventera Two;3309642]
. That’s different than “breaking” a baby who doesn’t know anything.
.[/QUOTE]
That’s not a baby. That is a 4 year old 900 pounds of muscle that has no problem dumping me. I have over 100 miles on him, some great rides until he decides to try and get rid of me.
If showing him that I am boss bothers you you shouldn’t be training horses.
I was NOT wearing spurs and didn’t until a few months into training. He is just going to find out that running away with me once I am set is NOT allowed.
I do break problem horses, horses that have been shown or ridden for years and then decided to quite. No nice way around it. I do ride that horse out until he decides to give in.
You aren’t there, you don’t know me, you don’t know my record or my animals so how can you judge??? Just because I don’t take crap doesn’t mean I beat it out of them. I do ride with a western bit but I could ride with light string attaching the reins to the bit and won’t break it??? Can you say the same thing???
How about Strider?? Never made a comment about him and his way of going??? Run behind, run in front he remains under control.
A kid or an old man both would be equally comfortable on him.
You don’t know my horses or me so don’t judge my ability.
I’m with saratoga - if the horses loses it’s biscuits when you mount up - then you failed to do the job right before you got to that point. And yes, a 4 year old is very much a baby. Especially when it behaves like this when a rider gets on it’s back. That poor little guy was just a green bean. End of story.
As for Strider - nice video. It shows a horse cantering in a field with another horse. It’s not exactly showing off all the dare devil, death defying feats that you supposedly conquer on him continually. So…?? But in any case, it’s a nice video of 2 horses cantering in a field. It looks like all parties involved were having fun. Don’t know what else to say?
Shadow 14, the word is “Schutzhund”, and I doubt you are the dog trainer you say you are. Doubt your abilities with horses, too. I didn’t get to see your videos, but it sounds like you’re a yahoo. Frightening that you have students. You positively brag about your falls and injuries. Are you the Super Dave of the horse world?
All hat, no cattle.
Googling his real name doesn’t bring up anything except posts on internet bulletin boards. I’d think someone who dominated the dog showing world for 12 years would have something out there, but there’s nothing to dig up.
Tonight I am sure I can find his pass port. I would never throw that out. He has his Schutzhund 3, all tracking degrees, a GA degree, and endurance degree and his utilities. That should make 13 degrees.
I also just found one of the many newspaper articles they did on him and I am sure some of his trophies should still be around.
I will photograph the stuff I can still find.
As for google they don’t go back that far. I did alot in the corvette world and my contributions were regular but after a few years they drop it
His trophies and Striders cards were housecleaned about 2 years ago. They ment nothing to me anymore but now I am sorry I threw them out. I discarded about 50 trophies at the time but we keep finding some hidden away here and there.
As for Kid’s world who would remember it??? NO one.
All I wanted to do was show my guys and this is what it turns into???
I really don’t need you guys and after I post the promised pictures I am out of here.
His name is Lance and if I can find his papers it should have his registration number, what good it would do is beyond me.
[QUOTE=Auventera Two;3310130]
Googling his real name doesn’t bring up anything except posts on internet bulletin boards. I’d think someone who dominated the dog showing world for 12 years would have something out there, but there’s nothing to dig up.[/QUOTE]
Vickey after 20 years do you think google is going to dig it up?? A computer hardly existed then and who would post it anyway.
Yes I did dominate for 12 years and did all the shows I said I did.
Again I will dig what I can up tonight, take photos of it and then wish you all goodbye.
google Becky Hart and Rio??? There is hardly a mention of her and yet she won a world champonship and many many races. In endurance she was a legend and yet today on google she is a one line mention???
