Virginia Tech VA TECH "Made to Order" killing...

[Liberty]

See pic (no, it’s not graphic):

What’s happening:

Posted on Facebook by the Roanoke No Kill Coalition:

Last week, the RCACP staff was told to stop what they were doing, and kill 8 dogs to use as cadavers for Virginia Tech. Cats were thrown into the made to order slaughter as well.

This was per an agreement that “was set up by Bill Watson a long time ago” and has continued under the management of the Roanoke Valley SPCA. Nothing has changed, and these atrocities continue to be swept under the rug and hidden.

Had enough? Please contact you local officials and tell them.

Roanoke City:
http://www.roanokeva.gov/85256A8D0062AF37/CurrentBaseLink/N25PKHJH524JEASEN

Roanoke County:
http://www.roanokecountyva.gov/index.aspx?NID=288

Botetourt County:
http://www.botetourt.org/government/directory.php?bos=1#bos

Vinton:
http://www.vintonva.gov/index.aspx?NID=81

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IMO, this is shocking, atrocious, needless, and thoughtless killing. Simple coordination between VA Tech and shelter could utilize those animals ALREADY euthed rather than “placing an order” to have a number of them killed “on demand”.

[LauraKY]

Are you sure it’s true? You fact checked? I’m not disputing it’s possible, but let’s be sure first.

[LauraKY]

Here’s some more info about their “no kill” policy. BTW, Bill Watson has resigned. I still haven’t found any info about cadaver dogs though.
http://fixnc.wordpress.com/2012/07/24/roanoke-valley-spca-may-regret-banning-volunteer-over-photos/

[Liberty]

I’m working on that, Laura. I want to get to the bottom of this. It was promptly posted to the VA Tech Facebook page, but they just as quickly deleted it without addressing it in any way.

I’m currently waiting to get an update from the Roanoke No-Kill Coalition.

[Alagirl]

considering that cats and dogs are killed wholesale every day in the country…I can’t even muster outrage. At least they don’t go to the landfill…:no:

[Liberty]

@LauraKY;6496042

…BTW, Bill Watson has resigned…

I’ve been reading that Bill Watson is still showing up for work, in spite of his alleged resignation. No one is able/willing to say why.

@Alagirl;6496059

considering that cats and dogs are killed wholesale every day in the country…I can’t even muster outrage. At least they don’t go to the landfill…:no:

My outrage isn’t because the euthed animals are being put to good use. My problem is that these deaths might be hastened by a state university making an impromptu “order” that must be filled ASAP with animals that otherwise could have found good homes. It’s not rocket science to coordinate the need for cadavers with animals that have already been euthed, or are scheduled to be on the day needed.

[Alagirl]

@Liberty;6496343

I’ve been reading that Bill Watson is still showing up for work, in spite of his alleged resignation. No one is able/willing to say why.

My outrage isn’t because the euthed animals are being put to good use. My problem is that these deaths might be hastened by a state university making an impromptu “order” that must be filled ASAP with animals that otherwise could have found good homes. It’s not rocket science to coordinate the need for cadavers with animals that have already been euthed, or are scheduled to be on the day needed.

I could not find anything on the people that lodged the complaint other than a lot of news presence. The name alone made me suspicious though.

Maybe you need to ask VTech, not the people in the news, and not via FB…

[LauraKY]

I message the SPCA in Roanoke. Sent them a copy of the photo, said if it was not true, they’d better be doing damage control ASAP, and if it is true, well good luck with the consequences.

Here’s their response.

This graphic was originally posted on the Roanoke No Kill Coalition facebook page either late last night or early today. It has since been removed. I could’t say why except that maybe because of inaccuracies?

Unless I hear or see something to the contrary, I’d be hesitant to continue sharing this.

[Horsegal984]

I dont know anything about this whole situation, but what I will say is that when studying Pathology and learning certain things about anatomy and post mortem changes it is extremely important to have very fresh samples to evaluate. I know that at the shelter near one of the pathology labs here they are told about a week in advance to ‘hold’ a certain number of animals, but not to actually euth them until the school calls to say they are on their way to get the cadavers. However to many of the shelter volunteers who are not familiar with the system it would look as bad as the situation described, when in fact the animals euthed were already ones slated to be done that day/day before etc.

[JanM]

My understanding is that in some jurisdictions the animals at the public shelter are euthanized on schedule, and the remains are sent to vet schools or other research centers. This is nothing new.

[LauraKY]

Sounds like typical RARA rhetoric. Would I love all shelters to be no kill? Absolutely. Unfortunately, until people start spaying and neutering their pets and using responsible breeding practices, this is what we get.

[meupatdoes]

[QUOTE=LauraKY;6497767]
Sounds like typical RARA rhetoric. Would I love all shelters to be no kill? Absolutely. Unfortunately, until people start spaying and neutering their pets and using responsible breeding practices, this is what we get.[/QUOTE]

I’m not sure that people spaying and neutering their pets is going to prevent vet schools from “needing” fresh cadavers. If they “need” them, where will they come from when people DO spay and neuter their pets? (BTW, I read a Nat’l Geographic article online that predicted we were about 10 years out from nationwide no kill.)

The point is that, no-kill shelter or not, these animals didn’t NEED to be killed (at least not yet) and they were deprived the chance they would have had by getting bumped up the list.

I wonder how the medical schools do it, what with not being able to place an order for inmates from the prison population, and all. However do they learn?

[Alagirl]

@meupatdoes;6497892

I’m not sure that people spaying and neutering their pets is going to prevent vet schools from “needing” fresh cadavers. If they “need” them, where will they come from when people DO spay and neuter their pets? (BTW, I read a Nat’l Geographic article online that predicted we were about 10 years out from nationwide no kill.)

The point is that, no-kill shelter or not, these animals didn’t NEED to be killed (at least not yet) and they were deprived the chance they would have had by getting bumped up the list.

I wonder how the medical schools do it, what with not being able to place an order for inmates from the prison population, and all. However do they learn?

You assume that their days were not up yet.

[meupatdoes]

[QUOTE=Alagirl;6497939]
You assume that their days were not up yet.[/QUOTE]

No, not assuming, since that is pretty explicitly what the picture/campaign SAYS.

If you feel the campaign is factually inaccurate (which it may well be) feel free to explain your reasoning with facts and you may well convince me and the rest of us that the campaign has it wrong.

If, however, the campaign is correct, the whole point of the campaign is that their days were allegedly NOT up yet.

[wendy]

you’re assuming a lot of things. I don’t know how that shelter does things, nor do you. Many/ possibly most shelters use a “triage” system rather than a flat “X days and you are dead” system. In a “triage” system they evaluate all incoming animals, and those thought to be adoptable are moved to the adoptions area, and those thought to not be very adoptable are selected to be killed next time they do killings. They might kill once a week or every day, but that doesn’t affect the selection process for which animals end up dead. So if they had a contract with some school for fresh cadavers, they’d just go and kill animals that were already selected to be killed. Which you could argue is actually a kindness- being kept in a shelter environment is very stressful for animals, if you’re going to kill them, killing them sooner is better.

[meupatdoes]

[QUOTE=wendy;6498039]
you’re assuming a lot of things. I don’t know how that shelter does things, nor do you. Many/ possibly most shelters use a “triage” system rather than a flat “X days and you are dead” system. In a “triage” system they evaluate all incoming animals, and those thought to be adoptable are moved to the adoptions area, and those thought to not be very adoptable are selected to be killed next time they do killings. They might kill once a week or every day, but that doesn’t affect the selection process for which animals end up dead. So if they had a contract with some school for fresh cadavers, they’d just go and kill animals that were already selected to be killed. Which you could argue is actually a kindness- being kept in a shelter environment is very stressful for animals, if you’re going to kill them, killing them sooner is better.[/QUOTE]

The CAMPAIGN is assuming a lot of things, not me.

I have stated I am open to the possibility that the campaign got it wrong. But random hypotheses about how random shelters do it doesn’t say anything about this actual shelter.

If you don’t know any more than I do about how this shelter does things, you are not basing your theory that the campaign is incorrect on anything more than the people who think maybe it is correct.

[Horsegal984]

Actually the campagign says that the dogs ‘had not already been killed’ it does NOT say if the animals were ones slated to be euthanized in the near future or not. I am not set one way or another, I have seen some horrible things happening at shelters around here, so I would believe either version, but I want more than an inflammatory photo from a group with an obvious agenda before I just on or off a bandwagon.

Also the fact that it has been pulled from the Coalition that it is supposed to be garnering support for makes me tend to believe that it is in fact, inaccurate at best.

[meupatdoes]

[QUOTE=Horsegal984;6498095]
I am not set one way or another, I have seen some horrible things happening at shelters around here, so I would believe either version, but I want more than an inflammatory photo from a group with an obvious agenda before I just on or off a bandwagon.[/QUOTE]

I agree, but it counts for both sides of the bandwagon.

[MsM]

Kind of a sad situation some years ago in CT. Used to be that registered research labs could buy shelter dogs after their time was up for certain types of procedures and nobody else offered a home. (They did their own euth) Occaisionally they would have a non-fatal trial and somebody would get too attached to a dog and he got a new home!

People didnt like the idea of “somebody’s pet” going to the labs. Not even dead. So the law was changed to prohibit the parctice.

Then the shelters euthed and incinerated the remains. The labs purpose-bred more dogs for their use (as they always had to do for some research) The result? More dead dogs. Waste and higher research costs.

[Liberty]

[QUOTE=LauraKY;6496034]
Are you sure it’s true? You fact checked? I’m not disputing it’s possible, but let’s be sure first.[/QUOTE]

The organization that created and posted that pic (which some here seem to either not have viewed or didn’t read it closely) did say earlier today that they only post “true” information. However, they are placing the blame/spotlight on only one of the 4 sides and have backed off the involvement of VA Tech (who is now being referred to as “the agency”) because “the agency” has received a lot of complaints/upset comments from concerned folks. Too bad “the agency” opted to not explain their role by failing to provide direct, clear answers to their involvement.

@meupatdoes;6497892

…The point is that, no-kill shelter or not, these animals didn’t NEED to be killed (at least not yet) and they were deprived the chance they would have had by getting bumped up the list…

[QUOTE=meupatdoes;6497966]No, not assuming, since that is pretty explicitly what the picture/campaign SAYS.

If you feel the campaign is factually inaccurate (which it may well be) feel free to explain your reasoning with facts and you may well convince me and the rest of us that the campaign has it wrong.

If, however, the campaign is correct, the whole point of the campaign is that their days were allegedly NOT up yet.[/QUOTE]

Thank you. You obviously understand what prompted the outrage by many concerned people.

@Horsegal984;6498095

Actually the campagign says that the dogs ‘had not already been killed’ it does NOT say if the animals were ones slated to be euthanized in the near future or not.

I do not know about all the dogs euthed “on demand” for “the agency”, but I DO know that the one in the pic (“Mountain Girl”) was currently and actively being networked to find her a good home. She sure didn’t look or sound unadoptable, and there were lots of people out there working hard to get her safe.

[QUOTE=Horsegal984;6498095]I am not set one way or another, I have seen some horrible things happening at shelters around here, so I would believe either version, but I want more than an inflammatory photo from a group with an obvious agenda before I just on or off a bandwagon.

Also the fact that it has been pulled from the Coalition that it is supposed to be garnering support for makes me tend to believe that it is in fact, inaccurate at best.[/QUOTE]

Good points, and I agree. However, while the Coalition still states that what they posted was true and accurate, what I am seeing is that they backed off after complaints to them from “the agency” that placed the order for cadaver animals that needed to be “filled” right that moment. That is very disappointing to me, but that’s just me. At least I have a better understanding where they are coming from and how they will react (back off) when the heat is on.

I do NOT have a problem with euthed shelter animals being put to good use by going to a university for research/learning purposes. It sure is better than being dumped in a landfill or incinerator. With the number of animals euthed every day in shelters, I don’t ever see a need to grab extra because someone “needs” them right away, with no regard as to their adoptability or current, ongoing efforts to find them homes. A little planning would go a long way towards preventing this type of situation from happening.

@meupatdoes;6498104

I agree, but it counts for both sides of the bandwagon.

True, and in this case, there are 4 sides to the bandwagon, but none of them are stepping up and being completely forthcoming. Two of those four are being completely silent on the issue.

But this is/will all become ancient, forgotten history. I can only hope that at least some of those involved have learned something from all this so that better, more prudent, choices can be made in the future.