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https://www.facebook.com/northforkscardi/
http://www.chronofhorse.com/article/…-doesnt-matter
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lsWs7qeH9qg
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That is the risk of any breeding though. I’ll be breeding very good conformation to very good conformation.
Risk exists on a spectrum. For example, breeding a TB to a TB is lower risk than breeding a Gypsy to a Quarter horse. Breeding a European Warmblood to another is lower risk than breeding one to a Welsh.
You never just breed the two horses in front of you. What you really do is combine their genetics. And genetics are a funny thing. Mother Nature has a great sense of humor.
The Welsh stallions I’ve seen in the USA, yes. The ones on my side of the pond that are one hoof away from a diabetic coma and bred for in hand and not temperament, not a hope in hell.
Terri
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This is my Welsh Cob cross - not a WB cross, but you can see how much the cob stamped him! He is out of a grade mare - as far as I can determine, she is part Arab and ???. He has a nice canter, functional trot, the walk is a bit tight, but improving. He has all the 'tude I mentioned in my prior post, and requires a confident rider - but he sure is CUTE! And we get along really well - I actually like a dash of 'tude and a smart horse!
CUTE!!!
Very good point. I will look into background conformation.
Thanks for all comments and feedback, I really appreciate it. I have weighed up the pros and cons, and if the breeding gods smiled on me, I would have an exquisite foal. However, if it all turned pear shaped, I’d end up with a neck and tail.
While I still like the warmblood/welsh x, I’m not going ahead with the original breeding plan for that particular mare, but will look at another option for breeding my Welsh/Warmblood.
A friend of ours had a lovley imported section D cob mare and bred to a warmblood several times (a few different stallions - Air Jordan, Rio Grande) until she found the perfect match. She had a few amazing crosses by one of the stallions and they have all done really well. They are careful jumpers (two were sold to the US in the low 6 digits) and one of the jumpers was the only North American bred horse in the young jumpers class and ended up sixth. He also won the free jumping competion locally here and all were so surprised when it was said he was out of a “pony”. But boy, could he jump! But the pony comes through in all of them lol! But not bad in any way, just opinionanated.
Another of her babies is doing the A circuit hunters and competed in Florida and was consistantly in the ribbons. So they are very useful for sure!
In my experience there is a difference between a warmblood x welsh cross (section A or B) versus a warmblood x welsh cob cross (section C or D). While any of the crosses can yield wonderful and I mean wonderful results, there are still smart choices that should be made. Knowing what is behind all of the genetics that went into the critter in front of you and the one you intend to breed to and being able to ‘see’ what possible combinations could result will guide you best 
OP I wish you well with whatever future plans you have for your mare.
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My experience is VERY limited, but the friend I had who crossed Welsh had a Section B - pretty, refined stallion. And he was super sweet and mellow - as were the offspring. Very different from the Cobs I’ve seen - who tend to be bigger, heavier (not in a bad way), and hotter. And the Section B ponies I have seen have been more hunter movers - long and sweeping movement, while the cobs have been more knee, more hock, more power behind. So I would totally believe there is a huge difference!
I have been boarding (my non-Welsh horses) at a Welsh farm for the better part of 20 years now and have been peripherally involved in the North East Welsh Pony and Cob Assoc by way of proximity and I don’t know that I would say cobs have attitude across the board. I’ve known quite a few personally and can only think of one or two that I would call a handful (both are stallions, actually–so who knows if it’s 'tude, or stallion 'tude). In fact, I was very seriously considering breeding my WB mare to a cob until I discovered she had PSSM.
The Nebo Calonog babies I have known and ridden have been talented and smart–even the crosses. Quillane Apollo throws stunning and talented get who are competing at everything from driving to dressage. I am blanking on the stud’s name at the moment, but Ashland Welsh has a C that has sired a whole generation of wonderful ponies. And Cardi…oh my!
Point being, my experiences with cobs and cob crosses is that they tend to be athletic and talented with level heads (for the most part). And I have seen more A/B crosses that I would call “frankenhorse” than I have ever seen cob crosses. Like I said above, I wouldn’t hesitate to breed to one if I had a mare with genetics that were a good idea to perpetuate.
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I would appreciate any links to Welsh/Warmblood crosses, ie Facebook pages, studs etc, to further my research. Thanks
Tomas (Nebo Calonog) has produced many fine cobs and crosses; but, in the wrong hands some of his stock haven’t always been the easiest. He is the sire of Ashland’s stud, Gallod Replica who I think you might be referring to; but, am not sure. Quillane Apollo is very nice indeed but again, all of us breeders of Welsh know that it’s very critical not to just select to get a well built animal but to select to get a good mind. I think what you’ve hit on is a list of very skillful breeders who know how to market their animals well. They do put very nice animals on the ground as do a few others who have posted here or been identified. I find in general that when you don’t know what’s behind the animal in front of you in terms of generations of pedigree the surprises (which really shouldn’t have been if you know what Im’ sayin’) come out. The A/B crosses that I’ve seen that have caused me to shake my head only underscore my point. Read the standards for each of those sections and take a look at how different they are when we’re talking American emphasis. I don’t consider them to be as similar in type. Of course I’m one who isn’t all that foud of the idea of crossing section B on cob either, especially since you have to register the get as a cob but that’s a whole 'nuther monster there.
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the cross of welsh cob to warmblood and/or TB is a magic cross. Depending on the height of your mare you will get a resulting horse in the range of 15.2-16hh, excellent temperament and work ethic, soundness, a brain, beautiful mover, well conformed. You will not be disappointed!
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EXVET please feel free to point out the offspring of Thomas who have not met your standards; because everyone of them are true to breed type and character. Obviously the mare makes up half the equation in terms of temperament and looks. Thomas was always a gentleman, very easy to work around
Replica hasn’t sired a bad one but he’s a Section C so expect smaller offspring from him.
Apollo, while stunning, I cant speak to his offspring as I think their numbers are limited?
If you are breeding for dressage crossing a talented Cob to a warmblood; you will get what youre looking for.
breeding a B to a cob is just a disaster in my opinion.
Section B’s are performance ponies bred for the hunt fields as child sport ponies. Sections C & D are heavier boned, non hunter movers, good/excellent cart & dressage ponies with very elastic attention-getting movement
these are Section D’s:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8PtpnljPo8o
these are section C:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8-7hrz1K0qk
and these are Section B’s:
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I agree 110% with exvet. She didn’t say the Tomas crosses weren’t nice, she was simply warning about temperament. Her comment of “but, in the wrong hands some of his stock haven’t always been the easiest” is spot on!
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I think the same could be said for just about any youngster who ends up in the wrong hands, not just Thomas’s get.
Again, the resulting temperament is the combination of both so you have to consider what’s behind the dam-line too; not just blame the resulting temperament issues on the sire.
Is Thomas still around? If so, where?
The cobs can be spirited but I wouldn’t say any worse than what can be experienced with Warmbloods.
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I wouldn’t. Welsh Cob x TB, maybe. Or one of the other Welsh sections x WB. But not Welsh Cob x WB.
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Susan Stepney and I are good friends. I have always adored Tomas but BOT is my end all be all favorite. Even having said that there are some crosses from BOT that wouldn’t be my first recommendation for some. They, imo, are lovely but depending on the dam, some need a more experienced hand. The same is true about Tomas. It also has NOTHING to do with my standard. You again are proving my point that any breeding is the result contributed by both parents so it’s not just the sire that must be considered. This is why I trained and showed every broodmare of mine before I ever bred them and if they didn’t meet with my standards they didn’t get bred no matter how nice I thought my section D stallion (whomever it was at the time) was/is. As far as I know when I last spoke to Susan, a month ago, Tomas is still alive.
Thank you for your perspective. I respect it but obviously I don’t agree with the broad paint brush stroke you take. I think you may have missed my point about Section A & Section Bs but that’s okay too…I march to a beat of a different drum. Some of the other welsh breeders have come to understand that and accept it for what it is but it’s never been a worry of mine as to who does or doesn’t. Your rebuke over Tomas comes from the right place, but trust me, there is still a lot of information out there about him and the breed in general it appears you haven’t come across yet. Tomas is a wonderful and prepotent stallion. Despite how much I adore the breed, to say that all put on the ground are lovely easy creatures for the general horse crowd is only guaranteeing that I’ll get at least one more given to me for free because it was deemed loco, crazy, dangerous etc…care to ask the breeding of the one I have in my back yard that was given to me with that label? After having him for 8 years I still can’t put anyone else on him, but, we’ve shown through PSG and he has the P&P now, still developing and not strong enough for competition but a he’s been a delight to train. He’s not the only one I acquired that way; but, after significantly downsizing he’s the only one with that distinction that is here to stay because he still can’t be ridden safely by anyone else. For whatever reason, I’m his person.
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But isn’t that part of why people are considering such a cross? A smaller horse with a better brain for the rider who doesn’t want quite as much of a challenge? MOST riders of small horses and ponies are looking for an easier ride - that is why I got such a deal on my Welsh Cob cross… He wasn’t such an easy ride, and everyone who was looking at that size wanted something easy - they had tried Warmbloods and wanted something easier!
And while some of the well known cobs (like Cardi) are fabulous in the show ring, if you ask the riders, they won’t tell you they are an easy ride. We have a couple of nice cobs in this area that are super nice, going higher then 2nd level, and they are both very tricky rides for experienced riders. They do not suffer fools lightly, is a quote I’ve heard more then once. I think that is ExVet’s point too.
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