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Ways to get dog owners more involved in breed events or breed clubs

The Menagerie
#1

Rather than continuing to derail the other thread, I thought maybe we could talk about this here.

I’m really interested in this topic because I’ve recently been elected to a national officer position for my breed club, and my position is to oversee membership and strengthening regional clubs. As was already mentioned on the other thread, AKC breed entries are down, and so are memberships in a lot of breed clubs.

So we’re looking at a bunch of challenges over the next two years. We can’t really affect AKC’s policies (e.g. to offer altered dog classes or “senior” showmanship) but a lot of breed clubs could do things to encourage or attract new people.

What kinds of things would you like to see in a breed club – the other thread about trying to find breeders is a really important piece. Our national club does not have a breeder’s directory and that’s one thing I’d like to suggest.

Do any of you belong to Regional breed clubs - and do they offer any good events/opportunities to draw in new people or make them feel more welcome?

#2

I’m just going to list some of the thing from the other thread because I want to remember these good ideas:

Adult showmanship class
Altered dog classes
Breeder listings

#3

Not know what you breed its it’s hard to offer much help. Personally I don’t see why someone would want to show an alter in conformation. There’s not much you can do to improve is your dog’s conformation isn’t good enough to win. There are already so many ways in which a dog can compete when neutered agility, rally, obedience, hunter trials, terrier trials, lure coursing… You could offer awards in your breed for excellence in any one of those areas. Conformation showing is dull boring and frustrating by comparison. I remember on weekend where in three shows I consistently got 3rd out of the same group of 7 dogs. and all of the dogs that won we beat at least once over the weekend. And of course there is no judge feed back. And think of it most dog shows are crowded with parking problems you name it. Adding alter classes would double the size of a show. Or if they put a limit on entries result in many breeding dogs left out of the competition. And conformation showing is supposed to be about dog breeding.

Cats do have alter classes, but they don’t have the wide variety of choices to compete that dogs have. There is the newly started agility for cats but that is it.
Plus the cat shows are having a harder time filling that the dog breed shows do. Alter classes are needed to keep the shows alive, that is not the case with dog showing.

#4

I’d show in an altered class because when intact, my dog won a lot and is great advertising for his kennel. I’d also show because he loves showing off, so it’s something he likes. We also train and compete in performance events and he tries hard but he doesn’t love it as much as the breed ring.

As for breed club things- we did offer a Rose Chandless handling seminar the day before our National and it was packed with a waiting list. I’d do more of those. There have been a couple of handling seminars tacked on to local shows but they do them after Groups. If my dog is in the breed ring at 8:30, waiting until 5 pm is awful. If they could be held at different times, that would be more accessible.

I’d do more “newcomer welcome” things as possible. Not only did I feel pretty shut out by the old-timers, I have seen it with other newcomers. They had the money, they had a pretty show prospect, but they had to beg for grooming tips because most people turned a bit of a cold shoulder to them- possibly because their dog might be able to beat theirs? I don’t know, but it was very unsportsmanlike. A newcomer’s grooming seminar or pre-show clinic with someone who doesn’t have a dog entered that day would be so nice.

A national breeder registry is nice, or at least district contacts so people looking for pets or other information can talk to someone.

In our breed we are just starting to develop a regional “Versatility” club for those who show in performance as well as breed. I expect it to become pretty popular. Much more welcoming towards the pet people and once the people get exposed to some of the events (going to some performance events at the Big E and maybe wandering over to another building), perhaps they will dip their toes into the breed ring.

But yeah, more than anything I would like to not feel like a newby idiot when I set foot on the breed ring, so the more lessons or education I have access to, the better.

#5

Does your dog have to registered with the akc in order to compete in all the non-conformation classes? I play around with agility at home with my dogs, but never looked into showing them.

Back to the topic at hand:

I agree that clinics and seminars are the way to go. Make it very newbie friendly!

#6

[QUOTE=Ready To Riot;8456786]
Does your dog have to registered with the akc in order to compete in all the non-conformation classes? I play around with agility at home with my dogs, but never looked into showing them. [/QUOTE]

You can get an alternative registration number from AKC and compete in a variety of performance events like agility and obedience (and Hunt Tests, I think). It allows them to keep track of your dog’s performance records for points and titles.

[QUOTE=Ready To Riot;8456786]Back to the topic at hand:

I agree that clinics and seminars are the way to go. Make it very newbie friendly![/QUOTE]

My Regional breed club is pretty typical of my breed - about 30-35 members. So it’s not very big. But the challenge is that probably 1/3 compete in conformation; another 1/3 may compete but not in conformation (or some combination with some crossovers); and the last 1/3 are people who never come to events and we don’t know what they do with their dogs.

But we also know there are a lot of people who own the breed, but don’t belong to a regional or national club for some reason - either they have no idea about it (very possible!) or don’t think it offers them anything, or have tried it and found it definitely did NOT offer them what they might want out of a club.

So the questions are - what would make someone join a breed club, and what can we offer to people? Some of the more successful clubs (apparently) have found that offering “fun days” have brought in “pet owners” and often those people do start to compete in other dog sports or conformation, once they meet people that do it. The keys are figuring out how to find those people, and how can we make the regional clubs (and the national club) attractive and make sure we retain members by continuing to offer things of value.

My regional club has had a handling class before, but it did not attract many people that were not already involved in showing. So…we can think about maybe coming up with ways to encourage non-show folk to try it for fun - maybe as part of a “fun day” event.

We have also thought about assigning new people a “mentor” - someone that will help them personally to navigate different options - dog sports, classes, obedience, breeder referrals…etc. Not sure if that would be an attractive thing that would make someone join?

I’m just looking for all kinds of ideas…and also looking at other breed clubs to see what they offer (e.g. breeder referrals on their websites, etc.)

#7

I agree it needs to be newbie friendly. We have stopped to watch a few dog shows in a nearby town. Everybody there appeared to pretty much know everyone but we did not feel welcome. Nobody smiled, said “Hi”, or “Do you have any questions?”. We clearly were there to have a look around. They did not appear to be having any fun. There seemed to be whispers and distaste about the dog that was clearly a mutt but did an awesome job in a rally class. I think the whole attitude that a dog must come from a top notch breeder to be worth anything needs to go. You can’t push to get your dog from a rescue and then look down upon him because he’s not AKC registered. Do we need good breeders? Sure we do. But the snobbery towards a lovable mutt needs to go by the wayside. If you want your shows to grow you need to make people feel welcome, educate them, and not just about what’s in a rule book, and understand they love their dogs with or without AKC papers.

Maybe a few schooling clinics for beginners and make it known that mutts and all ages are welcome. The cost has to be minimal so people will take a chance on coming with out spending a lot. Maybe one or two free to start.

#8

[QUOTE=Ready To Riot;8456786]
Does your dog have to registered with the akc in order to compete in all the non-conformation classes?[/QUOTE]

Depends on which performance classes you are interested in. In some cases there are alternatives - I believe Agility is one.

Is your dog a pure bred but not registered? You can get an AKC number good for performance competitions going the Purebred Alternative Listing route.

I do Barn Hunt with my Border Terriers and AKC has nothing to do with that sport. For $$ AKC will put title names after my dog’s name in their pedigree but that is all. I don’t bother with the AKC stuff for Barn Hunt… and Barn Hunt is open to any dog as long as they have nose :wink: (prey drive not required).

#9

We went to watch a barn hunt. It was the first one in our area. We felt very welcome there and everybody was having fun. Including the dogs. lol. They had a schooling clinic the night before to introduce new people to what was going on. You could bring your dog to see if he would be a candidate for the activity. Next time we will bring our dogs to see if barn hunting is in our future!

#10

It’s hard to know if you were really seeing what you thought you were seeing - for example, I’m not sure that people really found the mixed breed dog in rally to be distasteful. Many performance sport people do not support conformation shows - so it would surprise me that rally people would find a non purebred dog to be an issue. And, at least in my breed - a lot of people have other dogs, some purebred, some rescue, some mutts. I don’t think that the breed snobbery really exists - but it might be hard to see that at a conformation show.

However, it is definitely true that a dog show is a difficult place to navigate if you’re not familiar with them, and people who are there to compete may not have the time or inclination to help you out. I always try, but there are times when it’s hard to really focus on anything but getting ready for the ring.

Many clubs have an “intro to dog shows” orientation - but if it’s a public show and someone wanders in off the street they would never realize, nor be able to find it. But at a small, breed specific show (specialty) it might be possible to have designated people be available to help explain things. That’s a good idea - and we could potentially advertise a breed show so that it was open to the public if people wanted to watch.

#11

I do know that when our local breed club offered a fun match, lots and lots of pet owners came by to show their dogs in the “breed” ring. In some cases they were up against show quality dogs so that wasn’t entirely fair, so I’d rework it so that there could be some prizes for something other than adhering to the breed standard. It was nice to see new faces and it would be nice to encourage them. It also was the case that the pet people all sat together and the breed folks all sat together and nobody interacted- that part was a little sad- and perhaps could have been handled better.

I love the idea of having mentors. Our breed talks about it, but it’s not a reality. When I was starting with my boy I asked all over and nobody wanted anything to do with mentoring us. People were annoyed that I got a dog from outside this area and even more annoyed that he won a lot. I don’t entirely blame them, but it didn’t really encourage me to get dogs from them in the future. They became a little friendlier a few years later when I started handling my dog myself and bungled it a fair bit. Everyone likes a loser. :-p

I agree it would be nice to have a welcome table or dog show ambassador volunteer at some of the bigger shows. You see these nice families coming to look at the dogs because all our books say to do this, but then they look sort of lost and shy and they probably leave with a not great taste in their mouth. It would be nice if they could check in at the table and a junior or someone shows them around or they get a pamphlet educating them about what they are watching and how/when to approach breeders to ask questions (i.e. if they are about to go in the ring is not a good time!). Or easier still, designate a particular hour as a “meet the breeds” hour where breeders agree to talk with visitors- maybe 3pm or something, when most of the action is over.

#12

MTC, I love Barn Hunt and the camaraderie there is between the competitors (at least in my area).

My older BT now has one leg toward his Senior title and my younger BT has his first leg toward his Novice.

A challenge to learn to trust what your dog is telling you :slight_smile:

#13

[QUOTE=S1969;8456657]
Rather than continuing to derail the other thread, I thought maybe we could talk about this here.

I’m really interested in this topic because I’ve recently been elected to a national officer position for my breed club, and my position is to oversee membership and strengthening regional clubs. As was already mentioned on the other thread, AKC breed entries are down, and so are memberships in a lot of breed clubs.
Our national club does not have a breeder’s directory and that’s one thing I’d like to suggest.

Do any of you belong to Regional breed clubs - and do they offer any good events/opportunities to draw in new people or make them feel more welcome?[/QUOTE]

I think until AKC honestly addresses the issue of politics and pro handlers, they’re going to continue to see a decline in breed show entries. It sure isn’t a welcoming place for a newcomer. I have watched the classes for my breed many times when I’m not entered because I’ve been at the show for Rally or Obedience. There’s a problem when I can consistently place the class “correctly” by looking at who is holding the leash. All without looking at the dog. And, as a veterinarian, I wanted to throttle the judge who told me my dog was nice but was getting a lower placing due to being too thin. WTF!!! This is a versatile breed, it’s not appropriate to dump a dog who’s competing in agility, muscled to beat the band because she’s weight appropriate.

I kept a stunning young male to the face of the next generation. I’m just going to suck it up and send him out with a handler as there’s no doubt he’ll easily finish that route. I budgeted for the expense of a handler when I decided to keep him. His MACH I’ll be able to do myself.

Meanwhile, a friend of mine is waitlisted for the next agility trial in our area because entries maxed out. I just got my breed club’s Rally trial premium and in multiple places it stressed getting your entry in ASAP as they expect to fill well before closing. Agility is my main activity, but I dabble in Rally and Obedience. You see a lot more of the under 50 set in the performance side than you do in breed.

My regional breed club does have a breeder listing. I get many inquiries that way. We have been blessed with a very tech savvy club member who has made us very readily visible/easy to find off of a google search. The club does have a picnic and other fun events which are open to the public. On the wild side, we’re close to a fifty/fifty split conformation vs performance for members who compete. The profits from the performance events subsidize breed. The agility trials are consistently in the black. The venue costs for the breed specialty just eat up so much money that they’re doing well to break even and are looking at doing a back to back specialty in the spring to make better use of the venue fees.

#14

[QUOTE=S1969;8456657]
Rather than continuing to derail the other thread, I thought maybe we could talk about this here.

I’m really interested in this topic because I’ve recently been elected to a national officer position for my breed club, and my position is to oversee membership and strengthening regional clubs. As was already mentioned on the other thread, AKC breed entries are down, and so are memberships in a lot of breed clubs.

So we’re looking at a bunch of challenges over the next two years. We can’t really affect AKC’s policies (e.g. to offer altered dog classes or “senior” showmanship) but a lot of breed clubs could do things to encourage or attract new people.

What kinds of things would you like to see in a breed club – the other thread about trying to find breeders is a really important piece. Our national club does not have a breeder’s directory and that’s one thing I’d like to suggest.

Do any of you belong to Regional breed clubs - and do they offer any good events/opportunities to draw in new people or make them feel more welcome?[/QUOTE]

A newcomer class not unlike the junior handler, that allows a novice to show the dog, possibly altered, on handler merits, not dog quality.

Be less crazy :wink:

But I think the numbers reflect the current societal ideal of OMG, EVIL BREEDERS.

But everybody is hurting for participation.

#15

[QUOTE=Alagirl;8457576]
A newcomer class not unlike the junior handler, that allows a novice to show the dog, possibly altered, on handler merits, not dog quality.

Be less crazy :wink:

But I think the numbers reflect the current societal ideal of OMG, EVIL BREEDERS.

But everybody is hurting for participation.[/QUOTE]

I agree 100% that one big reason for lower numbers is the concept that breeders are bad. On one of the breed forums that I follow, if anyone asks for a breeder referral they get numerous “adopt, don’t shop” admonitions. Don’t get me wrong - I love rescue…but I don’t see breed clubs and rescue as being mutually exclusive. Good breeders are probably least likely to have a dog end up in rescue.

But - as for breed club participation - it’s not just for conformation shows. In fact, for a long time the biggest participants in my breed club were those that competed in field trials; so it has been a battle to get attention to the “show side” of breeding versus the opposite. I think there has to be a healthy balance - too much of either side isn’t good.

#16

I would second what Marshfield said. My experience is a bit on the older side with respect to when I was a newbie wanted to get in to the conformation ring and possibly put a owner-handled championship on my dog.

I saw enough “silliness” (to be polite) in the ring that after a few years, I was over and done with showing conformation. As it is qualitative rather than quantitative, so much easier for a judge to place dogs how they want. At least when I was competing obedience, I knew my dog Q’d or didn’t without the judge having to tell me anything (and I just wanted the Q, didn’t care about the ribbon).

I also had the misfortune of being in the same city as a nationally known breeder of the breed I was showing (but I wasn’t competing any of their dogs). Hard to walk in the ring after you’ve seen that breeder/handler standing by the ring entrance shooting the breeze with the judge…

I didn’t think nor do I think now that breeders are inherently bad. I have always tried my best to get quality dogs from well respected breeders. I just make it known we aren’t doing conformation but will be doing performance :slight_smile:

Unfortunately, some people will always be “competitive” in whatever sport they are competing and will be driven to “cheat”. I’ve heard through the rumor mill of cheating even in Barn Hunt. Thankfully not in my area. We have a bunch of great secretaries and judges and the trials so far seem to be void of cheating.

#17

As a brand new AKC reg pup owner I’d like to see a Dog Show for Dummies guide. Why should I join your group? Is it family friendly? How much does it cost? What can I do with my “average” dog (Average as in just a family pet, not a breeder ect)? Is it fun? Make the answers to these questions easy to find on your site, maybe with some fun pictures.

#18

I read this on my phone last night and somehow missed Marshfield’s post – some other great ideas on this thread that I want to respond to but I have to take a dog to the vet…I think I’m personally keeping them in business this month…now have a 3-legged lame dog…I suspect a broken toe or foot. :frowning:

Here’s what I think about AKC and judges - I don’t think they could ever limit or prevent “pros” from competition, and they will probably always have an upper hand by knowing judges better than most of us…but why does AKC let (even encourage) judges to watch the groups? How can that be anything but biasing their decisions for the next day - what about a 5 day cluster…how many judges watch the groups and BIS for 4 days before they judge some of the same dogs? Why is that allowed?

Even a judge who is confident in their breed assignments, and who wouldn’t change their opinion based on “politics” might still be affected by seeing the breed winners in the group the previous days - because they had additional opportunities to assess the dog - for good or bad - not just the 2 minutes in the ring that they are assigned to judge.

We often do back-to-back specialties (two in one day) and we never let the 2nd judge enter the room until the a.m. judging is over and the win photos are over. So if regional clubs don’t want their judges to see the previous winners - why is it ok at an all-breed show?

#19

[QUOTE=groomette;8458251]
As a brand new AKC reg pup owner I’d like to see a Dog Show for Dummies guide. Why should I join your group? Is it family friendly? How much does it cost? What can I do with my “average” dog (Average as in just a family pet, not a breeder ect)? Is it fun? Make the answers to these questions easy to find on your site, maybe with some fun pictures.[/QUOTE]

I know this isn’t addressing the breed-specific clubs or events but if you have an AKC registered dog, start here http://www.akc.org/events/.

All those are open to you with an AKC registered dog. If you have a family pet, you can still do all of them. Conformation isn’t just for breeders (although it’s basis, in theory, is to help identify dogs that are good representatives of the breed).

As you can see, there are many things you can do with your dog. Check out the trial calendars and go watch some that interest you. Get a feel for if you think this is a “family” activity or not. Many of the sports do support “junior” handlers so something to consider for your children. For just about any of these activities, you should be able to find trainers in your area (if not, then maybe not a good activity to choose for a newbie :slight_smile: - doesn’t mean the activity is bad, just not popular in your area).

Ask your breeder what types of competitions might be suitable for your dog and your family…

#20

I’m in a lower population area, with almost no dogs of my breed in my half of the state, so we have no local club.

What got me to join my national breed club was the encouragement of the breeder that I got my dog from and because she and another breeder who was familiar with my dog and I offered to give references on my application.

What she dangled as bait was that breed club members get a subscription to the monthly news letter and the very large News Annual included in the annual membership dues. The cost of the dues is less than getting the news letter and annual as a nonmember. That got me in, and my participation in the club has increased over time.

The club has also offered a breeders directory that can be paid for annually by members. In a year where I was considering raising a litter, I would pay to be on the directory.

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