Well? Look at the yearling sales books, how many TB’s do we need each year? Is the TB industry just a puppy mill in disguise or is it the training techniques at the tracks and farms that are the problem? Should TB’s be raced at a later age to develop more?
Yes, mini-welsh, actually there is. A couple of years ago a professor from one of the western universities did a study of horses that went to the killers. Actually, the point of her research was the transportation to slaughter.
If I am not mistaken, she tracked the horses from auction to the slaughterhouse. I am not sure what the final results were, but I believe they can be found on the Equine Protection Network’s website. She was pilloried by many of the equine rescue groups because they did not agree with her findings but that is irrelevant to the subject at hand.
Velvet, may I ask what evidence you have to support your contention that most OTTBs get wonderful homes after their career at the track is over? I am not necessarily disagreeing with you, I am simply curious as to what you base that on. I think if you are basing this on your own experience, surely you must know that what holds true for you isn’t necessarily the norm for the entire TB industry, any more than my experiences with rescue horses is the norm for all auctions or rescue horses.
As for the issue about racing greyhounds – I think it is reprehensible that they are euthanized when their careers are over, though God knows it isn’t as bad a fate as what happens to horses on their way to the slaughterhouse.
Wrong, wrong, wrong, wrong, wrong.
I am hard pressed to think of a single example of a drug that was originally approved in horses, and subsequently approved in dogs. (Adequan canine, but that’s about it. And Adequan by another name was actually originally approved in Europe for use in people, long before it was used in horses.)
Granted, there are drugs for use in horses that were designed initially for the racing industry. That would be Adequan again, plus Legend or other hyaluronic acids. Also Bapten, which has very finite applications for bowed tendons. And, umm, anabolic steroids, which are not such a good thing. Oh, and omeprazole, the ulcer medicine. It was tested on racehorses, because race training causes stomach ulcers in horses about 95% of the time, so it was such an easy model to use. (So, I guess you’d say it’s a good thing that we have racing to give horses ulcers?)
More surgical techniques, such as arthroscopy, were taken from human medicine rather than designed specifically for horses.
Antibiotics, dewormers, and vaccines are not designed with racehorses in mind.
Okay, I guess I will agree that racing does spur a significant amount of horse health research. But the downside is, that’s because racehorses are subject to so many illnesses and injuries.
I think a poorly trained 10 year old grade horse has a lot better chance of finding a home than a permanently lame 3 year old.
I thought I’d unintentionally driven a stake through the heart of this thread back in June…
Snowbird, I think you may have misinterpreted 5’s post. When she mentioned horses in their 30s packing around little kids, I don’t think she meant it in a demeaning sense–I think she was saying it is a GOOD thing when horses of that age manage to remain sound for so many years.
[This message was edited by Ann on Sep. 07, 2001 at 02:55 PM.]
Gato Del Sol was recently repurchased by his breeder and returned home to live out his retirement.
Paul Mellon was an outstanding horseman, sportsman and breeder. He successfully competed in the Old Dominion 100 mile ride on several occasions, raised his own homebred racehorses which he allowed to come along slowly (he supported the later maturing thoroughbreds in his own breeding program).
As a noted Philanthropist, he had the money to put where his mouth was.
Due to the enormous amount of money involved in thoroughbred racing, much of the funded research into equine diseases and injuries that our riding horses benefit from has been sponsored by the TB industry. Thank you for pointing out the Grayson Jockey Club and other institutions.
Ms. Helen Chenery (Penny Tweedy of Secretariat fame) is one of the founding sponsors of a racing industry TB retirement fund.
There are far too many cases of ANY horse being misused and neglected to spend valuable energy and resources pointing fingers and placing blame on any one segment of the equine industry in this day and age. It is people who allow abuse, not groups.
Miniwelsh, what’s her registered name? Also, try posting your query on the Let It Ride TB Breeding Forum. http://letitride.com/na_breedingforum.html You’d be amazed what they can come up with sometimes. 
Good luck finding her!
The local shelter at which I volunteered said the euthanized animals are sent to a rendering plant. Soaps, detergents and other household & industrial products can be made from the rendering process.
Check the fields for Pimlico and you will find that they need more entries! TBs are not overbred at all, we need more to fill the races.
To answer Moesha’s question, The Jockey Club estimates the 2000 registered foal crop at 36,700 for the U. S., Canada, and Puerto Rico. In a chart comparing other breeds for the same year, there were 62,511 paints registered, along with 145,936 quarterhorses. According to the JC website, these statistics were provide by the respective registries.
Moesha, I think you hit the nail on the head. TB breeders are breeding to win races, not produce outstanding jumpers with quiet temperments. It’s miraculous that TBs can deal with 2 such different sports - racing and showing - in one lifetime. If the H/J people want good TB show horses, they should develop and institute a breeding programs, not rely on racing breeders to breed bad race horses! You can’t blame racing breeders for not producing good show horses.
And not every breeder is breeding to win the KY Derby. Take a look at stud fees of the top horses - they are more than my house cost me! There are different levels of breeding, and although most breeders breed to the best stallion they can afford, they are also looking for a good cross with their mare. Most breeding farms take good care of their stock, and don’t just do a “head count” every few days. Mares need good care to produce healthy foals, and stud fees are not paid unless the foal stands and nurses.
I’m sure there are breeders who let mares and stallions live in a field with little care or supervision, but you’ll find irresponsible breeders in every discipline.
As for breaking babies, most farms have been using round pens for at least 10 years. It’s dangerous to get up on a horse in a stall since you’ll probably collide with a wall or get banged up pretty bad should the horse freak out. I prefer a nice cusiony large round pen or ring so I can get away from the horse should I come off. You’ll find that most serious injuries occur when the rider is stepped on or the horse falls on the rider.
I think another harmful practice is working sale horses too fast at the 2yo in training sales. They want to see the horse go in 10s!!! which is way too fast. But the fast works bring in money, and a slow work can be a kiss of death in the auction ring.
I copied this off of the EPN’s website…one in nine horses who raced were killed in slaughterhouses according to this article…that seems awfully high to me, but I haven’t been able to find anything yet on qh’s or paints. Grades will probably be impossible to find since we don’t know exactly how many are born each year.
DEAD END
By Bill Finley, Daily News Sports Writer
This is the first of a two-part investigation into the inhumane slaughter of horses.
Note:The Dicovery Channel aired this story on Animal Planet:
Rescue of a Racehorse
They threw a beloved hero named Secretariat a farewell party, attended by 32,990 people on a crisp autumn afternoon in 1973 at Aqueduct, before sending him off to his Graceland, also known as Claiborne Farm.
The pomp and circumstance included a letter from the governor of New York, Nelson Rockefeller.
For thousands of other thoroughbreds just off the track, those not gifted enough or lucky enough to spend the rest of their natural lives pampered in the splendor of a Kentucky breeding farm, the long goodbye comes in the form of repeated bludgeoning in the skull by a deadbolt gun with a four-inch nail.
That was the beginning of the end last year for an estimated 7,700 thoroughbreds or about one out of every nine horses who raced who were killed in four U.S. slaughterhouses that handle horses for human consumption. The nail stuns them. Then they are shackled, hoisted in the air and their throats are slit before being dismembered and eventually served for dinner in Europe, Asia or Mexico.
It may be a repulsive scenario, but it is also a reality for an industrythat hasn’t figured out what to do with the thousands of slow and infirm horses who leave the track every year, worth no more than the value of the meat on their bones.
What is the answer? It is difficult to even figure out what the question is.
Are horses companion animals, deserving of love and care? Are they like dogs and cats, animals most Americans would never slaughter for human consumption? Or are they commodities, no different than slaughter-bound cows and pigs? If some are treated like heroes, why should others be discarded like yesterday’s garbage?
“It is humans that brought these horses into the world and we control their every move and their health. They are utterly dependent upon us,”
said Penny Chenery, Secretariat’s owner and a member of the board of the Thoroughbred Retirement Foundation.
“We as humans have an obligation to see that there is a viable alternative for them after they no longer suit the purposes we brought them here for. You have a responsibility to see that a horse’s life has a proper outcome.”
That, however, is not always as easy as Chenery might make it sound.
“If a horse is no longer useable and has no potential, what else are people supposed to do with it?”
said Arlow Kiehl, who buys horses from auctions before selling them off at a small profit to a slaughterhouse.
“I can’t afford to let them run around and just look at them. Where else are they going to go but to slaughter? There are some real tender-hearted people out there and you can’t explain this to them. There are some real fruitcakes running around who can’t listen to reason.”
Around the race track, they call people in Kiehl’s business"killers." Once a horse falls into their hands, it’s usually over. Kiehl says that he evaluates every horse that makes its way to his Watertown, N.Y. farm. Those which are healthy and useful will be resold, he says, perhaps to riding stables. But most, he admits, wind up being slaughtered.
It is another Monday at the New Holland Sales Stable in Pennsylvania Dutch country and Kiehl is one of about a half dozen “killers” in attendance on this late-November afternoon to buy horses for resale to the slaughterhouses. Horses are sold every Monday at New Holland, one of a handful of rag-tag sales that bear no resemblance to the prestigious events at Keeneland and Saratoga, where future racing prospects can go for millions. Most of the horses aren’t even thoroughbreds. They are standardbreds, cross-breds, draft horses. Horsemeat is horsemeat.
Oddly, about the only thing that can save a horse who has fallen this far is its color. The horsemeat industry shies away from grays.“Caution must be exercised when buying gray horses or variations of gray horses,” reads a notice sent out to horse sellers by Beltex, a Fort Worth, Tex., slaughterhouse.
“All gray horses are inspectedby the USDA for indications of melanoma . . . .Gray horses very often do not pass USDA inspection.”
While they may have started out their careers on the country’s more prestigious racing circuits, horses who end up at New Holland usually finished their careers at nearby tracks Penn National, Charles Town and Finger Lakes. Middlemen operate at each of those tracks, knowing that there are plenty of owners and trainers eager to rid their barns of horses who can no longer cut it. A soft heart is not a job requirement.
“I just sell horses,”
said Charles DeHart, who was dealing on this day at New Holland.
“Where they go from here is other people’s business.”
No one cares who the horses are or what they did on the track.All that matters now is their weight. Beltex is currently paying 51 cents a pound for a healthy, good-sized thoroughbred, most of whom weigh about 1,100 pounds. That makes an average horse worth about $561 by the time they reach the end.
Along the way, the middleman and the “killer” each take a small cut over and above the price for which a trainer sells a horse off the track. Kiehl says he expects to make only $40 per horse on the ones purchased at New Holland.
Next is the trip to the slaughterhouse, which, more than any other part of the journey from the winner’s circle to the dinner table, has drawn the wrath of animal rights activists. The horses are crammed into trucks, some geared to haul smaller animals such as cows, and herefore too low to allow them to stand properly. They’re sometimes driven as far as 1,000 miles with no rest or feed and water breaks, none of which are required by federal regulations.
Some of the horses, lame and infirm, are in no shape to handle such rough travel but they cannot be put down beforehand because the toxins used to euthanize a horse make it unfit for consumption.
“Fights break out and injuries are frequent,”
said Jackie McTigue, program spcialist, equine protection division of the Humane Society of the U.S.
“Sometimes the horse doesn’t even survive the journey.”
No official records are kept regarding what percentage of horses slaughtered are thoroughbreds, but the Humane Society of theUnited States estimates the figure to be 10 percent. According to the Food Safety and Inspection Service, 77,000 horses were slaughtered in the U.S. in 1997. That’s down from an all-time of 315,000 in 1990, when more than 20 equine slaughterhouses operated in this country and an estimated 31,000 thoroughbreds were killed.
Not that horse lovers are necessarily winning.
“One of the reasons it is down is because the dollar is so strong,”
said Geert DeWulf, general plant manager of Kaufman, Texas slaughterhouse Dallas Crown Inc.
“All of our product is going to overseas markets and a strong dollar does not help anyone export American products. The other reason is that there is now more production of horsemeat in other parts of the world.”
Dallas Crown, Beltex, Cavel International and Central Nebraska Packing are all that are left. Another, Cavel West in Redmond, Oregon was closed after being bombed July 21, 1997 by a radical animal rights group, the Animal Liberation Front.
Americans may find the thought of eating Black Beauty, Trigger or the $36.40 winner they had las summer at Saratoga repulsive. But some diners in France, Belgium, Switzerland, the Netherlands, Italy, Germany and Japan have no such qualms.
“Retail cuts of horse are similar to those of beef,”
a Feb. 1997 USDA advisory reads.
“The meat is leaner, slightly sweeter in taste, with a flavor somewhat between that of beef and venison.”
And so it happens, and not only to the horse who was just beaten 40 lengths in a $3,000 claimer at Finger Lakes. Racing writer Mike Mullaney uncovered that Exceller, a Grade I winner in both the U.S. and Europe and the only horse ever to beat two Triple Crown winners, ended up in a slaughterhouse in Sweden last year.
“Exceller knew what was going on; he didn’t want to be there,”
Ann Pagmar, who cared for Exceller for owner Gote Ostlund, told Mullaney, after taking him to the slaughterhouse as per the owner’s orders.
“Standing with him like that, it made me feel like Judas.”
Exceller’s demise sent shock waves through the industry and helped raised awareness of the problem, but only marginal progress has been made since his death. It’s still a matter of economics. It would take untold millions and thousands of acres of land to take care of each and every unwanted ex-racehorse who comes off the track. The small-time owners, the ones that wind up with the cheap horses at the ends of their careers, say they can’t afford it. The ones who can, the wealthy owners and breeders who race for big money with valuable horses, often say it’s not their problem. Some racetracks contribute, but the amount of money donated to the various thoroughbred rescue groups, all of whom operate on shoestring budgets, amounts to a fraction of what is bet on a single race at Belmont Park.
“I don’t think this industry does enough,”
said Philadelphia Park CEO Hal Handel, among the more generous contributors to the Thoroughbred Retirement Foundation.
“This is an important issue and we have to start doing the right thing. I’m not just talking about racetracks, but owners and breeders. Everyone who is involved in this industry has an obligation to the animal. We sell to the public the beauty of the horses and the love that we have for them and how that’s a critical element of this sport. We then can’t let this happen to these horses.”
Cathleen Doyle got tired of hearing the same tired excuses. Teaming up with friends Sherry DeBoer and Sidne Long, Doyle got the first-ever statewide initiative banning the sale of horses for slaughter onto the California ballot this year. It passed overwhelmingly and it is now a felony in California to possess, import or export a horse for the purposes of human consumption. Selling horsemeat is a misdemeanor.
“The people of this state spoke up they don’t want horses slaughtered for human consumption,”
she said.
But Doyle is the first to admit that the new California laws cannot possibly save all of the state’s unwanted horses.
“What do you do with those horses? It’s a no-brainer,”
she said.
“You do the same thing we do with unwanted dogs and cats in this country. If you can afford to own a horse, you can afford to put one down at the end of its days. We’d love for every horse to live in a bucolic pasture until it’s 30. That’s never going to happen. The reality is that this animal served you and served you hard. He deserves a painless death rather than having a nail slammed in his head, sometimes three or four times until they get it right.”
Doyle, and her group, Save the Horses, is part of a growing effort to at least put a dent into the problem. The Thoroughbred Retirement Foundation is the oldest and best-known of the country’s myriad thoroughbred rescue organizations.
“People need to realize that this is a very workable problem; it just takes more money than we have,”
said the TRF’s Pikulski.
“What we do can do nothing but good things for racing and its image with the public.”
But with its current level of funding, the TRF can afford to care for only 200 horses. Obviously the industry could do more, but doing so might raise awareness that this underpublicized and controversial problem exists.
So it often chooses a strategy of benign neglect. It celebrates the pageantry, the “go, baby, go” excitement and the millions paid out in purse money, but then can’t come up with a way to care for many of the animals who make it all possible. At least not for the ones who did one simple thing wrong: they didn’t run fast enough to serve mankind’s purposes. For that, they get a nail slammed into the skull.
Original Publication Date: 12/20/1998
Monday, December 21, 1998
Racehorse saved from slaughter
This is the second of a two-part investigation into the inhumane slaughter of horses.
His name is Renaissance Bob, and he prefers carrots to apples. He was named after a former owner, Bob Greenhut, who produced the film “Renaissance Man.”
Renaissance Bob liked the mud, and he won an allowance race once at Saratoga, one of 10 wins in his career. He’s as gentle and sweet as a 6-week-old puppy. That is who he is.
No one at the Nov. 23 horse sales in New Holland, Pa., knew any of that as Hip No. 642 was led into the ring and kept there by an Amish man with a bull whip and an attitude. They didn’t know his name, and they didn’t care.
I’d come to New Holland in search of a story: I would buy a slaughter-bound horse, saving it from an early exit, then research the animal’s life. There was nothing particularly humanitarian about my motives. I eat meat and would tell any vegetarian that it’s my right to do so. Save the whales? Whatever.
Renaissance Bob had been cheered by thousands that day at Saratoga, a distant and meaningless memory as potential buyers considered only his weight: about 1,060 pounds.
That’s all that mattered to Arlow Kiehl, one of about a half-dozen “killers” among the crowd of some 150 at the New Holland Sales.
Kiehl may not have known who Bob was, but he knew what he was: an infirm horse about to take his last lap. Lame in his left front leg and unable to race over the previous two years, the 7-year-old chestnut gelding had no value as a racehorse and had been so beaten down by racing that he was of no use as a riding horse.
Kiehl bought him at auction for $500, knowing that a slaughterhouse would pay him a few dollars more for Bob, then ship his flesh off to Europe or maybe Asia or Mexico, where consumers would see him as a main course. According to the Food Safety and Inspection Service, a division of the Agriculture Department, 77,000 horses were slaughtered in the U.S. in 1997, 10% of which were thoroughbreds.
Kiehl would take Bob to his Watertown, N.Y., farm, inspect him, and then ship him to the Barton Feeder slaughterhouse in Owen Sound, Ontario.
Kiehl would get about $540, while Bob would be rendered unconscious by a stun gun that would deliver a four-inch nail into his head. He would then be shackled, hoisted into the air and finished off by having his throat cut. From there, he would be dismembered and carved into steaks.
How does a horse go from a beloved and pampered athlete to yesterday’s leftovers? From the winner’scircle at Saratoga to the Barton Feeder Slaughterhouse? The trip is a lot shorter than you would think.
Renaissance Bob was born May 26, 1991, at Highcliff Farm in Delanson, N.Y., a son of Cannon Shell out of the mare Miss Natchez. That’s the exciting time, when they could still turn out to be anything. Lil E. Tee, the winner of the next year’s Kentucky Derby, was every bit as modestly bred.
Breeder Seymour Cohn decided to sell Bob, who went for $2,700 at a Florida yearling sale. A year later, the price was up to $18,000, what Greenhut and trainer John DeStefano paid for him at a Saratoga 2-year-old sale.
Bob was already exhibiting the characteristics that would mark his life and career a gentle nature, an intense will to win and striking good looks.
“He was a beautiful horse,” DeStefano remembered.
And he could run a little bit.
Bob’s career began in a $35,000 maiden claimer at Aqueduct on April 5, 1994. With John Velazquez aboard, Bob struggled, finishing eighth, but three starts later he would hit his stride. Bob broke his maiden May 27, 1994, winning a New York-bred maiden special at Belmont by six lengths under Mike Luzzi. Three starts later, he was standing in the winner’s circle at the most prestigious race track in the country, Saratoga, having won by 5� lengths under Robbie Davis.
For that one brief moment, Bob embodied the image racing wants you to know about. Saratoga is a wonderful place and there were a lot of people there that day. They gave DeStefano a trophy, and 11 people crowded into the winner’s circle picture, proud to be standing next to Bob. After the race, he was taken back to a comfortable stall in the DeStefano barn, where he no doubt got the best food and care available from a conscientious horseman.
After that came the depressing though typical fall from grace. There are always stops along the way for horses on the downside, cheaper tracks and new barns. In Bob’s case, things were never the same.
He lost his next four starts, including a $17,500 claimer, and DeStefano knew the horse could no longer cut it in New York. He sold him to a friend, Chris Potash, who sent him to the next level down, the Maryland circuit. Bob managed to win a $6,250 claimer at Laurel, but after a fifth-place finish in an $8,500 claimer there, he was forced to go a step lower. Potash shipped him to Penn National, where he was claimed for $6,250 by trainer Ken Smith.
“He was my pet,” Potash said. “Without a doubt, my favorite horse I ever owned. He was that lovable.”
Under Smith, Bob wound up at Finger Lakes, where he raced 14 times, winning four more cheap races. Smith sent him back to Penn National and Potash claimed his pet back. Bob stuck around, winning three more bottom-level claimers. He was claimed again, Aug. 9, 1996, and Potash took him right back in his next start. Potash and his trainer, Harry Thompson, lost him again, this time to Rick Wasserman, who got Bob to run third in a $5,000 claimer on Dec. 13, 1996, at Penn National. Bob, who had earned $86,925 for his owners, would never run again.
With Wasserman, Bob’s growing list of physical problems, which included joint deterioration in his left front leg, became more than his owner could handle. Wasserman decided to cut his losses, selling Bob for $1,500 to trainer Gina Kreiser, who had hoped to nurse him back to the races.
“He never got sound for me,” Kreiser said. “He’d get a little bit sound then get lame again. I never even trained him.”
At $300 a month, Bob stayed under Kreiser’s care at a farm near Penn National for nearly two years. Finally, Kreiser grew unwilling to foot any more bills, fully aware that decision meant Bob would likely be killed. Economics over sentiment.
“A lot of people would have sent him to the ‘killers’ a lot sooner than I did,” Kreiser said. “Rick Wasserman kept saying to me, ‘Why don’t you get rid of that horse?’ A couple of people were interested in him as a riding horse, but it didn’t work out. Sure, I felt bad about this, but it comes down to whether or not a horse can pay for himself, and if he can’t, he has no use to a lot of people. I needed him gone.”
Kreiser sold Bob for $340 to Charles DeHart, who scours the cheaper Mid-Atlantic tracks for horses he can resell to “killers” such as Kiehl at places like New Holland. In Kiehl’s hands, Bob was destined to die in a slaughterhouse, at least until a newspaper needed an unusual subject for a profile.
With the assistance of jockey Julie Krone, I bought Bob for $550 out of the “killer pen,” where the chestnut and 38 other horses awaited what would be their last ride. Kiehl said that as long as the horse was infirm (he was), he would be sent to a Canadian slaughterhouse within a few days.
I had no idea who he was until the next day, when the Jockey Club matched up his lip tattoo number with an identity. I got my story. He got a good home.
Few things I have done have made me feel better than saving Bob. I’ve gotten to know this horse a little bit, and I can tell you he’s a living, breathing sweetheart of an animal, not a commodity, and he deserves a lot better than what mankind had in store.
After my purchase, Bob was shipped to the farm of standardbred trainers Phil Klein and Sandy Pikulski in Clarksburg, N.J. He has been donated to the Thoroughbred Retirement Foundation, run by Pikulski’s sister, Diana. Placement in the TRF program guarantees that Bob will live out his life well taken care of.
Honestly, it doesn’t appear that he’s capable of anything other than relaxing in his paddock, eating his carrots and apples while Nat King Cole and Tony Bennett and Frank Sinatra waft through the barn. Bob has put on some much-needed weight and he’s not as skittish as he was when he arrived. I think he’s pretty happy.
Yanni’s Sad End
By BILL FINLEY
Daily News Sports Writer
An estimated 7,700 former racehorses will be sent to slaughterhouses in the U.S. this year, and several more will meet similar deaths in Canada. No one knows who they are, and many former owners never know what happens to them.
But each horse has a name and a story, like that of Yanni’s Winner. She was slaughtered some time after being sold Nov. 23 at New Holland.
Poorly bred, never worth more than a few thousand dollars, the daughter of Commadore C. didn’t show much in a 31-start career. After the horse finished 10th in a $5,000 claiming race at Philadelphia Park on Nov. 2, Stanley Sager, who trained the mare for his wife, Nancy, was told that he was losing the stall space allotted to her. Sager said he tried to find a home for Yanni’s Winner but found no takers.
“Sure, it makes you feel bad, but what else are you going to do?”
Sager said.
Instead, he sold her for $300 to Peter Zanette, a small-time trainer who buys horses at the Pennsylvania tracks and resells them at sales such as New Holland. A small filly whose weight reduced her value as horse meat, Yanni’s Winner fetched only $360 at New Holland, going to “killer” Donald Nickerson. Following the Nov. 23 sale, Nickerson shipped Yanni’s Winner to a Texas slaughterhouse, where she was killed, less than a month after her last race. She won twice in her career, earning only $14,893.
“Does it bother me? Why would it?” Zanette said. “Does it bother you to eat a steak? The slaughter of an animal is a hideous event, but you can’t humanize an animal. Slaughter is something that has to be done.”
Bred by Astoria resident Ioannis (Yanni) Dinos, Yanni’s Winner raced throughout much of her career for trainer George Angelopos, who sold her over the summer to Sager for $1,500. Angelopos was shocked and furious when informed that Sager sent Yanni’s Winner to her death.
“That rat,” Angelopos said. “When I sold her to him he said he’d have a nice home for her if things didn’t work out. That’s the only reason I sold her to him. I have a full sister to her that is getting ready to run and has a lot of ability. (Yanni’s Winner) would have been worth something as a broodmare. I didn’t believe in the slaughter of horses. If that guy needed $300 so bad he ought to get out of the game.”
I guess it’s my vets and the ones at the University here that are wrong. I got that information from them. I do know that chondrotin sulfates, MSM and other things we humans are using were first used on horses…at least that’s what the research I’ve read shows.
I’m sure there are many others. There are some treatments for arthritis in horses were later used on dogs (not just the aforementioned). I didn’t say which things, I just know there are some benefits and “some” things have migrated out from the racing world into other aspects/areas of our lives.
I think you might be right Moesha, I just think there might be a lot more poorly trained (as in not safe for the average horse owner) 10 year old grade horses out there than there are irreversibly crippled 3 year old TBs.
In regards to the topic of tb’s that go to the kill being in a smaller portion to the number of all horses that get killed, I think it was estimated at 50,000 racers for some 80-100,000 killed (thats not including the standard bred industry, I think which would add to it).
I think what may be important to ask is if there is an estimated 68 thousand horses raced a year, 50,000 wasted is a pretty powerful number to the 18,000 kept.
Forgive me for the numbers not being fully backed-I wish I could find the articles on feedlots that backed them, I suppose that gets chalked up to this being hear say on a bb
http://www.bloodhorse.com/viewstory.asp?id=3093
For the record I love tb’s and wouldn’t have been able to afford a nice horse if it hadn’t been a race track reject, however I don’t know if that merits the amount that get sent to slaughter.
[This message was edited by Moose on Sep. 07, 2001 at 03:45 PM.]
Should TB’s be raced at a later age to develop more?
Yes, but as long as the Triple Crown remains the Holy Grail of the American racing industry, this is NOT going to happen, sorry. Owners and trainers are looking for horses who can perform early and on dirt; thus American horses tend to be bred for early [in all senses of the word] speed above stamina. “Come from behind” horses rarely win the Derby, let alone the Preakness… and is there such a thing as a 12-furlong turf claimer if your horse can’t cut it?
No surprise that the great handicap horses (e.g. Skip Away, Cigar, et cetera) tend to be former juvenile disappointments. The great juveniles-- Point Given, Charismatic–don’t need to go any further, even if they could.
PS: Don’t misunderstand me, I LOVE racing and I know for a fact that there are trainers and owners out there who love their horses and wouldn’t dream of intentionally abusing them (granted, money is often not an issue). But speed, not soundness, is what our TBs are bred for, and I can forsee short people dominating the NBA before I can see the American racing industry saving their most promising three-year-olds for the handicaps. 
[This message was edited by InWhyCee on Sep. 10, 2001 at 05:20 PM.]
I don’t think you can compare the two. Horses aren’t dogs. Apples aren’t oranges.
But I see where you’re coming from, and I certainly think that good TB breeders should be breeding both mental and physical traits in their horses.
Alot of horse racing lore is simply that, lore. Voodoo, if you will. It’s not an entirely educational and scientific process. Because racing is big business. And horses are simply products/tools used to make money.
Much different than sport horses - where careers are planned for at least 10-15 years and a solid, correct horse is a necessity.
Horses reproduce at a much slower rate than dogs, too. And horses that don’t make it, gruesome as this sounds, are at least harvested and re-used. Dogs that are put to sleep at shelters, etc., are simply buried or incinerated. No other contributions.
That’s what makes puppy mills so sad to me. The poor dogs didn’t ask to be born sickly, with quirky personalities because they were removed from their pack too soon.
I cannot stand to see people selling puppies on the side of the street. Or pet stores. Or classified ads for dogs. I wish it would all be outlawed.
And I do wish the TB breeding industry (for racing) would take a cue from the sport horse breeding industry.
Robby
It will be interesting to see how the courts react to the AI lawsuit recently brought against the (see COTH In the Country)…if the Jockey Club is forced to accept AI foals into their registry, perhaps convenience and proximity won’t be the deciding factors anymore when broodmare managers are choosing stallions. Many TB’s who don’t even make it to the track or who just go through the sales and don’t distinguish themselves eventually get bred to whatever is convenient, a recipie for mediocre (sp?) results.
Moesha, I see what you’re saying, so taking it as a “TB people overbreed” statement, I will still disagree. I don’t think they overbreed more than other horse sports. I think someone else said breeding is a crap shoot and you up the odds by breeding more, but it is also incredibly expensive so I don’t think people are doing this without thinking about the consequences. And I think many of them believe the horses will have another option if racing isn’t for them. So, maybe I do look at is another way of dealing with livestock. I don’t like horses going to the killers, but many of these do not and will not unless the economy makes it impossible for us to find an affordable place to board or a reasonably priced chunk of land.
And, to AHC ownerofspottedhorse all I have to say is that I don’t think age is the issue. I have seen many young TBs that come away sound after pounding down the track for years. While I don’t think they should be run at such an early age myself, what is the difference between them running around under a lightweight rider at the track as a two year old and a jumper going over a million fences at any age, just to satisfy an owner’s need for a ribbon or a cash prize? The age at this point isn’t the issue, it’s the work you are pulling up for discussion (at least that’s my interpretation). Many TBs have closed knees and have stopped the largest part of their growth by the time they are between two and three, why is it worse to work them at that age?
(Like I said, I liked it when we started some of them at three, but I also don’t see a whole lot of difference for some of the horses. They would probably have run the same and broke down or held up no matter what age they ran at. I just like the mental maturity of the three old…and yet I wouldn’t have wanted to start an un-handled three old. I like the flexible mind of a two year old if I have to work with something that rarely even had it’s feet trimmed and was only lead to and from the pasture.)
Ok so the paint, TB and QH crop was over 200,000 foals last year.
I think the reason, TB breeding is so singeled out, is the racing aspect and the Off the track TB syndrom. Come on everyone knows that getting a horse off the track is synonomous with a high strung horse that most likely has soundess problems or scars of some kind! NOW I AM NOT saying all OTTB’s are like that, there are many fantastic and wonderful horses that raced for a long time. I just think that on a h/j board it should be obvious why TB’s and the race industry would be “Singled” out.
I used them only as an example, because there is a lot of discussion on this area. I am not trying to condem the TB industry or the race industry, nor am I am trying to insult anyone on this board who is involved or has ties to those areas.
I love TB’s, I think they are so beautiful and athletic ,but are we turning them out properly? Maybe it is not up to the Race industry to turn out show horses, maybe that is the problem, the turning to ex-race horses, although many have outstanding careers as hunters and jumpers, maybe we need to realize that more and not blame the Race industry for soundness issues???
I am sorry I just really would like to know others opinions on this, and am trying to stay neutral. I said and know many top show horses and wonderful companion pets have come from race tracks or racing careers.
With the data now posted on three foal crops for 2000, and knowing that must be doubled or tripled to inculde other breeds and grades, isn’t that way too many? Think of it just those numbers alone for 5 years means 1 million horses!
