We attack the puppy mills but is the TB and Racing industry any better?

[Erin]

It’s hard to accurately gauge what constitutes “many,” “a lot,” and so on.

If one in nine racing TBs ends up at slaughter, I’d find it interesting to know at what AGE they were slaughtered. If it’s 4, we might have a problem. If it’s 15, well, then they obviously went on to a second or third career, and you could argue that it’s not the TB breeder’s fault that they ended up there.

Also, of the number of horses born at large, how many end up at slaughter? Unfortunately, it’s a fate for a LOT of horses in this country. Not all of us can afford to keep them as pasture ornaments. Yeah, it’s nicer to have them euthanized at home rather than sold at a sale for meat, but either way the horse ends up dead.

As compared to the greyhound industry… the problem there is that there’s no second “career” for a greyhound, really. They just become pets, which is great, but there aren’t that many homes out there to accomadate them. The horse racing industry is much more successful at “recycling” the track rejects… there’s a big market out there for athletic horses.

To me, “overbreeding” is breeding animals with no thought to where they’ll go when you’re done with them, making them someone else’s problem to clean up. For those of you who do have experience with the track, how do most trainers deal with the horses that don’t make it?

I didn’t read all of the articles that Miniwelsh posted (have my own articles to write today!), but they seem very interesting. Will have to come back later.

[DMK]

Hmmm… just read this thread for the first time…

I will say, my experience in the TB industry indicates that sale horses are generally started at 18 months or earlier if they are late babies - they have to be in order to get to the 2 year old in training sales. But as Flash pointed out, it isn’t so much the early breaking that causes problems down the road, but the early push for precocious speed. This is a newer phenomenon, and one that concerns the TB industry as well.

Horses we bred on the farm were not started until they were 2 years old, and were generally started then tossed back out to contemplate life for a few more months. Needless to say, out babies rarely made it to those April maiden races (but aren’t they a hoot to watch?). Honestly, if you have a crop of babies you need to get ready for the sales, you don’t have time to do the ones who aren’t going to the sales!

I agree with Velvet in that TB racing and the considerable investment it represents to those involved has been a major force in research and development in equine health. Even though you don’t think that wormers are specifically developed with TBs in mind, TB based foundations like the Grayson Foundation make considerable donations for research every year. This is just plain logic, those who have the financial means to afford a six figure horse (or 10 of them!) and LOVE the sport/breed, are probably going to be able to donate a tad more than me. Most of us with back yard horses or show horses aren’t making research donations on an annual basis, and certainly not of size that the Jockey Club and affiliates can manage.

I can also tell you that the incredible work done by the neonatal unit at UF’s vet school was done primarily through grants and donations by the Florida TB breeders and their various representative organizations (as a nice sidebar, it was also done in conjunction with the Shands (people) neonatal department - lots of innovative people stuff applied to foals).

From what I have read here, it seems to me that TBs do not represent the majority of horses bred every year, or the majority of horses sent to the killers, so while there is some poorly bred and indiscriminately bred TBs out there, if someone could wave their wand and make the entire TB problem dissappear, would anyone actually notice a difference? Based on the numbers, it doesn’t sound like it would really be a serious drop in the bucket (a nice start, but not a “fix” by any means).

Now there aren’t any numbers on this thread, but I have a sneaking suspicion that if we could wave that wand and fix the problem of all the grade horses who are indiscrimately bred, poorly trained and otherwise fated to end up in slaughter houses… well, I bet you would notice that difference almost as quickly as if we could wave that wand over all the mixed breed unwanted pets in shelters.

[Jumphigh83]

If HA is a nutrapseudical (ok I can’t spell) then why is it a perscription drug? (for people) Just wondering where the line is drawn between drug and food… I also think the TB industry has gone to hell in a handbasket…More, younger, smaller, faster, crazier. But those thoughts are in an archived thread~

Betsy
Lead, follow, or get out of the way…

[findeight]

many owners may have never sat on a horse but care deeply for their livestock. Two recent examples are Mr. Mellon who gave his Ky. Derby purse to the grayson foundation. Alan Paulson fought an insurance company for Cigar’s life and refunded them the 6 million the horse had earlier sold for.
Keep in mind It costs about $200 a day to maintain a horse in a good racing stable and few make any money above the upkeep even if they do win the major races. Might be love of the sport instead of the animal itself but in both cases the horse is well treated.
have spent time in Europe and hate reading that they are kinder over there. They are in the same situation except they eat horsemeat over there and are quicker to sell an animal in better weight to the killers.

From Allergy Valley USA

[Dementia_13]

Sorry, this is totally off topic, but miniwelsh --if you can e-mail me with the mare’s name, I have an acquaintance through the Exceller Fund who has access to all kinds of sales, breeding and other information. There’s a slim possibility we could trace her, but of course if she went to New Holland there is unlikely to be a record.

Do you know who the trainer was? You might try to contact him/her.

I am really torn in my opinions about racing. I’ve seen the terrible side of it – with busted up 3 and 4 year olds sold to the killers, but then again it has an upside as well, especially when I see the people who genuinely care about their animals.

[Robby_Johnson]

Animals who are euthanized via chemical means cannot be recycled. How did your shelter euthanize finzean?

Another point I meant to make … many, MANY, TB racetrack owners aren’t horse people at all. They get into the business as a business pursuit. I can name 2 people I know here (Oaklawn Jockey Club in nearby Hot Springs lends itself to lots of TB breeding in this area) who are clueless about horses but have had or do have race horses that they own at the track.

That’s much different that us, the “dyed in the wool” horse group. We know what we’re breeding for in specific, more mechanical terms (i.e. better conformation, better temperament, better “lastability.”). For us, bloodlines aren’t the only thing to consider when breeding.

Robby

[AHC]

Velvet, while I will certainly agree that there are practices one might question in most if not all equestrian disciplines, one of the great differences between the h/j world and the TB racing world is that hunters and jumpers aren’t out competing over fences when they are two years old.

Another difference that comes to mind is that for most of us amateurs, the horses are not expected to provide a return on our investment. If so, most of us would be quite sorry.

So even though the “puppy mill” analogy may not be perfect, I thought Moesha brought up some good and interesting points.

[Finzean]

Robby-
We used several solutions: somlethal & beuthanasia to name a couple all administered intraveniously at a mg/kg rate. It was explained to me that the toxins if effect “burn off” during incineration as I had the same question you posed. In addition, the quality controls for animal food aren’t as strict as one would think and the amount of bone meal supplied by euthanized pets compared to other sources is not that high. (Sorry to use your thread to bring this up Moesha…)

Back to the topic, as an animal welfare advocate (do not read PETA member, vegetarian, or whatever else comes to mind…)who has lived in the trenches as a horseman as well, it is terribly apparent that we are over breeding thoroughbreds. As someone pointed out, many of the people involved are not horse people, they are people chasing the dream of riches from a winning race horse. And depending on the circumstances, it isn’t all that expensive comparitively speaking to get a mare bred. I can use all my fingers and toes to count off the many individuals I know who each year get mares in foal by their “colt” (usually some nondescript never done anything TB colt they bought for next to nothing so they could breed him to the TB mares they picked up at the killer sale). They keep these mares out 24/7/365 and don’t do much other than a head count every few days. So the costs of keeping the horses are pretty low - many of them really show how inexpensively they are kept by about February. And yes, these creepy horse breeders actually do some training with these 2 year olds. Then when the babies don’t do anything they get dumped back at the sales unless they are mares and then they get to replace some of the older broodmares who are taken to the sale with the colts.

I can say this with certainty because I’ve seen it happen and I have the unfortunate displeasure of knowing these women and men. You see their rigs on the highway on sale day and every so often they’ll run an ad in the local paper for an “aged TB never raced real quiet good kids horse” (translated into unsound, fairly old - and tatooed I might add, with some type of easily obtained sedative coursing through the ol’ veins.) HOw much of the problem do these types present in the way of actual numbers of throwaways, I don’t know. But the fact that I know so many in a relatively small geographical area makes me think they contribute their fair share.

[Twister]

Velvet originally posted:

<BLOCKQUOTE class=“ip-ubbcode-quote”><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR> I guess I’m reaching the point out here, with this discussion, where I’m the only one who has a life experience of my own to speak about… I think my sources are a little bit better than everyone elses. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

You are not and they are not…

[windseeker]

Most two year olds don’t start in their irst race until september or october. You might on a rare occasion find one earlier. But not normally. I was at an auction 3 weeks ago and the majority of the horses there were quarter horses, paints and grade horses. Most well trained. A few were babies. Most were not wanted or loved and you could see it in their eyes.I only raise one or two TB’s a year. I only have one mare. But, I try to breed my good mare to the best that I canget to.