Double post.
Soā¦way back 30 years ago, this was the norm. There were rated shows and unrated shows, and the unrated shows would sometimes include 3ā6" divisions. People would show their ponies and horses at unrated shows at the regulation height to get experience, and then cross their fingers and swap to the rated shows when they were ready.
Given that history, it seems odd to me that the possibility of showing a green horse at the regulation height at a non-USEF show to get experience would be so concerning now. But I guess things have changed a lot in the past few decades :lol:
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I donāt think itās concerning at all. I think itās interesting if the shows will be big and competitive, with results that can be easily verified, which would not have been the case at an unrecognized show thirty years ago.
If you have a green pony or a green horse for sale, and you can easily verify that he was champion at that same height in good company and is still eligible to do the greens at the USEF shows, that can be helpful down the road.
Thatās a bit different than decades ago when the unrecognized shows might have had a wide range of entries, courses, and conditions, with no way to tell if the horse or pony won in a division of three lesson horses or thirty fancy show horses.
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As much as I want to be optimistic, I completely agree with this. As a 90ās kid from Oklahoma I was retrieving my jaw from the ground, not looking up who NSBA was.
Comparing it to former local circuits falls short just about everywhere. People didnāt ship 1000 miles to hit up the local ponies with a greenie. And itās the exact same week-long money-sucking prize list, short some very important junior equitation goals. Itās going to cost just as much money & no one is going to be tracking anything. WEC Ohio uses horseshowing.com to report, which is a major step up from the HITS system but seriously lacking the robustness of either ESPās system or horseshowsonlineā¦
That said, they (horseshowing.com) are 1 of only 2 systems that allow you to see all results for a horse at once (the other being horseshowtime, west coast), but you canāt find the horse until you find the show it was at, and then finding the horse from there is still a bit tough. And their show search is dreadfulā¦
So anyway, yeah. $1000+/wk and youāre going to have to start keeping track of your own points again if you have any intention of selling. Perhaps you donāt now, but there will be a lot of time spent piecemealing together random internet results when you do.
And the other side of me saysā¦ does NSBA have any idea what theyāve gotten themselves into? I mean, weāve pretty much strong-armed USEF, the NGB for 90% of organized horse sports, into being what we hunter/jumpers need it to be. I just donāt think they have any idea whatās coming for them, and Iām not sure how their OG membership is gonna feel about that.
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Why? Are you trying to qualify for indoors?
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Yeah, from poking around the organizationās website several times during the last 24 hours, I canāt see any way to search for a specific horse (or riderās) results. You can look at year-end points, but thatās it. I donāt think their system is set up to handle what H/J people are going to expect of it. Youāre paying all of the cost of a recognized show, but getting none of the benefitsārecorded show records, points, regulations, etc.
This is an enormous fancy facility that just got built on what sounded like the promise of another FL winter circuit with stalls that sold out early even with a pandemic on. I wonder how many of those will still go, now that they canāt qualify for medal finals/pony finals/derby finals/indoors/etc with the results from there. I also wonder whether this will really force the milage rule issue thatās been a complaint for years and weāll see it under USEF regulation next year.
Yāall do realize the the NSBA is part of the QH Congress, which Iām pretty sure is the largest horse show on the planet?! They are plenty equipped to run a horse show, it just wonāt be exactly like what the long-time USEF participants are accustomed to. That could be good, and it could be bad. Change happens and there are always growing pains when it does. Hunter/jumper people seem to be exceptionally opposed to change for no reason other than āweāve always done it that wayā. I grew up showing on the QH circuit in Montana and have shown hunters in Texas at rated shows for the past 8 or so years. Iāve never felt particularly welcomed or part of a community at the rated stuff like I did at the QH shows. Roberts has the same background as me and it appears to me that heās trying to make these shows fun and foster community.
I hope it goes well and pushes the USEF to get rid of the stupid mileage rule. I would love to see this be a resounding success and push some of the stodgy old farts to modernize.
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I have many of the same concerns as Nickelodeon.
i have zero concerns about the mileage rule which can go away AFAIC.
If this takes off nationally I suspect that USEF will rewrite rules so that NSBA is included on the set of organizations that count for green, maiden, etc.
Wonder if the rules will allow for shows to be both USEF and NSBA? How will NSBA mesh with regional organizations?
Currently you can put 3ā6āĀ miles that donāt count on a horse by going to county level shows. Unlike in ye olde days, the classes may not make, but sometimes show managers will let people jump around as a schooling round.
I suppose weāll have to wait and see. If they had something like this where I am I donāt know that Iād participate. Many of the group of people in my barn who do bigger shows consistently want to do USEF medals (or other organizationās medals, and itās not clear if NSBA shows will be co-recognized by PCHA or whatever your regional organization is). If I want to do a non-USEF show Iām going to save money by going to a two-day county-only show.
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Do the QH people not care about show records? Iād expect at the very least to be able to search a horse and see what itās doneāeven the various state HSAs Iām a member of let me do that. I want to be able to see if that āchampion in Xā was out of 3 or 30, or if a horse is showing 4 weeks straight in 4 divisions per show or two weekends a month in a division and a medal. I want to know if itās taken 6 different kids to year-end finals over the course of its career or only pins when a proās in the irons. Thatās before you even get into any of the other questions raised here.
I donāt necessarily think that this NSBA is a bad thing. But from the information the organization has available, it doesnāt seem to be focused on English sporthorse disciplines, or on record keeping. There are legitimate questions about things like helmets, drug rules, and safe sport enforcement. Maybe itāll turn out to be great. Maybe itāll force the USHJA to make some necessary changes, including sponsorship/prizemoney and milage and focus on the lower- and mid-level amateurs who actually make up a large percentage of those showing. But at this point, if Iād reserved a stall in FL for what Iād assumed was going to be weeks of USEF competition, and was suddenly faced with the prospect of being regulated by an unknown entity, Iād be concerned.
On the other hand, if I had the choice of hauling an hour and showing in a $500 2ā6" Low Adult class, or hauling an hour and showing in a no-money Low Adult class, I know what Iād choose, regardless of whoās running it.
Not any more excessive than the $50/per week per horse fee HITS tacked on this summer in Saugerties (and Iām sure for Ocala) for live streaming that you canāt opt out of. Even if they donāt catch your rounds. You know, because of COVID and no spectators :lol:
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From the way I read the Prize List, ASTM helmets will be required, and the same lab in KY that processes the drug samples will be processing the samples from this show. I am not seeing this show as wildly out of step with USEF shows as some seem to be.
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Both are excessive and I didnāt see it on the prize list for HITS Ocala but will look again.
My point, which ETR was responding to was give and take 275$ difference between HITS and non rated and a new, shiny facility. (With the moment rated or However it is rated but not USEF being more expensive).
Iām not saying there wonāt be drug testing. Iām saying there wonāt be CONSEQUENCES for the drug testing. Oh no! Canāt do NSBA shows anymore. Too bad so sad. There is no real reach they have in to our sport. And as bad as the drug infractions are when there is something at risk, you can imagine how bad theyāll be when thereās not. Especially with high prize money.
Im not saying NSBA is a bad org. Iām saying taking governance away from our NGC is a bad bad bad idea.
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Perhaps WEC will go in another direction. Warehouse, storage facility etc. The water issue has yet to be decided.
Huh.
Yep. They certainly found a way to rack up the fees. I wonder what mandatory night watch provides? Do they pick your stall and toss hay/fill buckets? Fluff your horseās pillow? If I canāt opt out of it and do it my darn self it needs to be mint on my pillow service.
Iām surprised several people have commented on the night watch fee. Iām my area itās pretty standard to have a mandatory night watch fee if you are stabling - usually between $10-20 for the show. It usually consists of someone walking through the barns once an hour overnight to check for any problems - loose horses, horses in distress, etc.
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In my old zone (2) it was (Iāve been gone for 8 years) an option at some shows. Honestly I used to pay for it- I guess it being mandatory (like the video option) irks me.
and the WEC fees made it more affordable to show at HITS - which just is odd to me to pay more to show non- USEF. Just me.
and like Oreo mom pointed out- they still donāt have potable water.
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Yeah, itās never been an optional service when Iāve seen it. Either everyone who stables pays for it or itās not offered at all.
I certainly wouldnāt want to pay a mandatory video fee unless they were guaranteeing that my classes would actually be recorded. Probably wouldnāt want it even then.
My friends who go to Florida in the winter donāt care about USEF rating. Theyāll happily pay the same price or more for quality facilities, better prize money and staff who is pleasant to deal with. Theyāre thrilled to have any alternative to HITS, they donāt see a USEF rating as providing much if any additional benefit.
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