Here it is.
Just moving this important thread to the front page.
Good question. First of all I would like to use this expresion but what we are dealing with in my opinion is the predudism of weigh. So many judges have been told this is what to look for. so over years they develope what they feel is to be exceptable. But how do we tell the judges this is not right. Its actualy weight discrimination. So how do we teach the judges not to discriminate and be biest to what thy have been taugh. I can see that many orginizations don’t see this as a problem but whoo trains these judges. They arn’t trained by just sitting there they are trained by continuous classes and clinics. Maby its time for the biest judges out there to do someting to stop these predjudice ones from becoming more. I think alot of this hapend when our standerds were changed who do we blame? we lay the blam not on Mr. Moris but on the people who live by hiis standards. Who else grandfatherd this era to thinking in this rhelm. I feel its time for us to stand up and say we do not accept this type of judgeing.
[This message has been edited by CTT (edited 04-22-2000).]
Digging this out again as I feel it is important! Maybe these judges should be given the Ethics Booklet…
You are welcome its only the honest truth.
I was stunned to hear all the stories about the H/J world on this matter. It is breaking my heart. Another nail in the coffin of “fun sport”. Some one in thread 1 or early 2 mentioned the weight issue in relation to a dressage clinician. I have been in dressage since the mid 80’s and have sat with a ton judges at a ton shows over the last 10 years. Never once have I heard a judge say anything about a riders weight, nor have I ever seen it commented on riders test sheet. Perhaps THAT is a great restrainer of tongue, That test sheet is signed by the judge. It is witness to their thoughts.
The comment made to the young woman that started this thread a ways back was, to my understanding, a one on one comment made when the rider requested a judges review for " ways to improve herself" A verbal comment is worth the paper it is written on. If pressed it is judges word against the rider.
Perhaps, as some suggested before, this gives a nudge twords the day when eq rounds are scored on forms like dressage.
I know a lot of horse show girls (mostly jr riders) who have eating disorders too, not just my friends from school. You’d be suprised how many closet belimichs we have among us (I don’t mean on this board, but in the h/j and eq world). A lot of them are “Big names”. Whether it’s diet pills or starving themselves or throwing up, they find a way, and they hide it well. I KNOW who Cozmo is, some of you may be surprised by her identity- I’m not saying eho she is cause she’d never speak to me again- but if you show and keep up on who’s winning in the jr. ring, you’d DEFINANTLY know her, and her boyfriend (although you would not know that they were going out- it’s a secret). Well, anyway, Cozmo IS getting help. She is in a hospital that specializes in eating disorders, although if you looked at her she seems perfectly normal. Not that she is fat, just healthy, and skinny (if you consider skinny healthy). Anyway, her parents aren’t letting her go to Devon unless she gains weight, so she’s soing ok.
Someone emailed me and asked me why I hadn’t posted to these threads. It’s not that I have a problem with the topic (being quite chunky myself). I have been busy, but also, in all honesty, I’m too close to the driving person’s perspective, I’m afraid.
You see, it’s the subjectivity of hunters and equitation that, in my mind, is at the heart of this issue in the horseworld. If you could eliminate as much of the subjectivity as possible, you would go far toward eliminating at least SOME of the impact of the weight issue on young riders.
I love the nature of the hunter horse, but I really, really dislike the hunter industry, as well as the equitation industry. I dislike the subjectivity which allows politics and personal preference to hurt, exclude, embarass and denigrate people. I hate any aspect of life which allows that sort of thing to happen–and, yes, I have very personal reasons for having little tolerance for that, too.
If I were a parent, I would not let my child ride hunters or do equitation. I don’t like the forces that are at work there. I don’t like the pressures that come with ambition or motivation. I feel those should be generated from within the individual, not beyond (by trainers and judges).
I would encourage my child to foxhunt, pony club, (combined, not pleasure) drive, event or do dressage–sports which at least have some degree of objectivity that my child could understand and thus avoid being frustrated and/or manipulated by.
So, I know I’m being harsh, but IMO, if this is a problem for the hunter/eq industry, the adults on these threads need to show their concern by working together on changing the rules such that it one person’s mere opinion doesn’t have the power to ruin lives.
I think it has gotten much worse. It does run through a lot of sports. Ours should not be one. It starts at the top. I agree with you my girls did really well and they never were less than a Size 6. More often a size 8, and certainly not fat.
I’m afraid that as a mother hen I would not have been very polite to any judge who made such a comment to me, maybe that’s why they didn’t. (Especially since most of our judges are not exactly thin!)
[This message has been edited by Snowbird (edited 04-15-2000).]
You go, Snowbird! You have more voice than alot of us, but we can all get the message to trainers and judges we know personally. Hopefully the Chronicle will pursue the issue.
Im just a trip. LOL I half to have a laugh. Oh I went down stairs and took a look on the scale yay Im 107 now yppe! just 13 or so lbs to go. Anyone have some real healthy yet fatening ideas for snackfoods. I always love to try something new.
I agree this is too important to slide to the back page.
<BLOCKQUOTE class=“ip-ubbcode-quote”><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by CTT:
we lay the blam not on Mr. Moris but on the people who live by hiis standards. Who else grandfatherd this era to thinking in this rhelm.
[This message has been edited by CTT (edited 04-22-2000).]<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
Just a comment, I did a George Morris clinic 2 and a half years ago, when I was 17 and starting my senior year in high school. I am by no means, skinny or have the ideal build. I’m 5’4" with a “solid” build, so I know I don’t look like the industry standard. I was absolutely terrified before that clinic, I’ve always found weight to be a VERY touchy subject, seeing as how my younger sister has struggled with eating disorders since she was hospitalized for one in eigth grade. My trainer has always reminded me that i’m not “skinny”, and so I was really worried about this clinic. However, I found that after 2 days all he really had to say negative to me was my lack of concentration (not suprising, since I have ADD, which he didn’t know! 
). In fact, he said I was a strong rider with a good feel, especially since my horse was hot and showing his greenness, and then got injured getting of the trailer the second day and so I had to hop on a horse of the barn hosting the clinic. Interesting experience, lol, this horse was completely different from mine. Afterwards my trainer approached him with a question, and he commented to her (with me standing right there) that he found me to be a capable and effiecient rider. He said that he realized I did not have the “ideal” body for riding, but that if I continued to eat properly and exercise to stay strong I had a solid future ahead. A lot better than what I was expecting. Not sure if I just caught him on a good day or what.
Devildog I agree
I also want to re-instate the importance of 2 things said above
- picking out the good unbiased judges and showing in front of them - and boycotting shows with biased judges. Show series want judges people like - so if some large % of exhibitors stay home whenever a certain judge comes they may think twice about asking them back. I know my trainer and i keep notes about the judges we see locally and what they are biased about - (weight, breed, etc - some judges won’t pin certain breeds at all even in the EQU classes if the rider is perfect…but thats another rant). And then unless we need those shows for a schooling experience or whatever we’ll skip them.
and 2) the healthy food thing!! I try to bring healthy food to shows - if I don’t often I won’t eat at all and thats not good! I hope everyone who cares about this will list healthy food as something important on that ‘what makes a good h/j show’ or whatever it was thread!
I’m glad we were all able to address this issue so openly and everything - thanks for sharing everyone!
Sarah
I havent ever posted on these boards before. But its so hard sometimes not to. WEIGHT has also been a big issue for me. I am 5’4 tall, weigh 145 lbs, and am sixteen (just a few weeks ago). I wear a size 30 Tailored Sportsman. Whenever I have a hard day at a show, my mother (who doesnt know the difference between a bridle, a halter, and wraps) tells me its because I am overweight. How does she know? When I come home to cry because I am fustrated with myself and my horses about our progress, everyone tells me that I should lose weight instead of sit there crying because if I weighed less we’d be jumping 3’9 perfectly instead of fighting for the 3’6 rounds. My parents tell me to “work out for an hour each day” and eat healthy things like salads and baked potatoes. But do you see those things at shows? My parents NEVER come to my shows- I always stay with fellow jr riders or their parents. They went to Europe for two weeks and finally I feel like I can breathe in my own house. They told me they’d send me to fat camp for the summer if when they came home I hadn’t lost any weight (instead of showing my horses) and theyd let someone else campaign our horses. I CANT TAKE IT ANY LONGER!!! I have reached the extreme. I know taking drugs are horrible but today after they left I went to Walgreens and bought DietAid and took it but my friends ruined it. I was trying not to eat anything but we all got together at my friend Rachels house to watch movies, and of course we make cookies and drink Baccardi Frozen Daquiri Mix (no liquor of course) and I eat some. And I feel so guilty and like a pig! And I know its SOO wrong to take pills to be able to ride your horses! And if my parents think and scream at me that I am out of control, so out of control that they can leave me with my housekeeper for 2 weeks alone? And I dont know what to do I am so fustrated and angry and ready to do something drastic! Everything is so pointless and I am so sorry to post this stuff here but I have no one else to tell.
Just thought I would take this opportunity to clarify a fact. Eating disorders are not confined to the juniors. It is just as prevalent in the adults. I think once it carries on to that point, the non-juniors just don’t speak about it. Ever. To anyone. Friends, or otherwise. If we are going to help, we need to help them all.
Magical- I am glad Cozmo is getting help and that she has a supportive friend like you to turn to.
well since these threads are starting to wind down I would like to thank everyone who shared their stories and advice. Its grate we have all of this going on. I encurage everyone who wants to do something about this to get with me and for all of the people who privately contacted me about them thankyou. I have a fue people that have joined me on my personal email that I have been talking with on various things. I encurage everyone who cares to contact me. I do not bite just ask anyone that I talk to. Im pritty easy. To the people who are to skaired to openly post here write me and maby we can do something to help. I judge no one for anything. You all have been a grate group to work with. so here is my email for all of you. trippe@earthlink.net . I recomend for any of us to reach out to one another. The more the beter. Also I use ICQ and I recomend that the people who want to be productive to get it so that we can talk on on one about things. Take care and I hope this is not sweped under the carpet. Be good and God bless all.
I agree, we should do everything we can to make our sport more sensitive to the problem. And to the influence that a casual remark can have. No matter what a trainer, judge or whoever might throw out as a comment – healthy riders can and do, do well in equitation & hunters.
[This message has been edited by Bertie (edited 04-15-2000).]
Snowbird, it is good to know that we have a representative who is as passionate about this issue as we are. Good luck, and congratulations on having the strength, desire, and motivation to go through with an attempt at change rather than just shaking your head and turning the other way.
