Weight limits and height

[KBC]

Reading this thread IHSA Show Weight Limits – How Common Are They? kind of brought back to mind something I read earlier in the year.

OPENING STATEMENT

I agree totally, 100% and fully, with any individual, barn, stable or other establishment setting and weight limits that they are comfortable with. I was fussy who rode my horse as an owner, and everyone should be able to make their own call.

That said, the following I am not sure of their logic, while fully supporting their choice.

What’s our weight limit?
I will keep it simple. No offence is intended but I feel quite certain some will be taken, which saddens me.

We do have a strict weight limit, which applies fully dressed ready to ride. This varies according to a range of factors, including each individual’s age, height, weight, experience level both now and previously, what sort of horses they ride, is that in/out of an arena, hours weekly in the saddle, overall fitness and confidence.
Yes, the horses are large, but the hills here are steep, the ground uneven. We don’t want to risk injury to either our beautiful horses or our riders, so expect to be asked. We expect you to be honest, however, sadly some folk are not.

**> We reserve the right to weigh days where we weigh every rider privately in a calm, kind and non judgemental manner: it’s easy to be unaware of weight gain. This is not intended to belittle or ‘fat shame’ far from it, it is, however, for our horses and clients welfare. **
> If you are over our limits I am sorry but your experience will be curtailed, no refund, you have not been truthful.

Given the terrain here, this is also to protect our riders, as sadly we see heavier and /or novice heavier riders fall off more regularly, maybe because these riders can be top heavy and unbalanced, less core strength, sitting unbalanced, and if they start to slip to one side we notice a higher tendancy to depart the saddle. This is not said to cause offence, simply to explain, our limits are for rider safety, too. Falling from an 18hh horse will hurt, so please understand our reasons for being firm re weight limits.

> As a guide, FULLY DRESSED at 6’ plus our absolute maximum is 16 stones. (224 pounds) At eg 5’6" it is much less, around 14stones. (196 pounds)

We do not mean to cause any offence, we are protecting both horses and you, too. That is from the heart.

Ok, tech head is failing me today, but hopefully it makes sense. This is a statement from a place that has lots of big drafty types, yes bred to pull not carry, but not fine boned lightweights.

The bit that put my back up first the dual statements,

“it’s easy to be unaware of weight gain”

BUT

“If we weigh you and you are too heavy you are a liar and we will not refund you”

Personal anecdote here, found a stable that would take a larger rider like me, at the end of the first week in January, I was mortified when I weighed a couple of days later to see the damage Christmas and New Year had done.

The one that still has me thinking is the variation in weights between heights, is a beginner 6’ 220 pound rider an easier carry than an experienced 220 pound rider who is 5’ 6”. Reading the thread above where ability was often mentioned, and “riding light” I just have me a brain worm over this. It’s an interesting rabbit hole to crawl down, because there are so many factors that come into it, BUT, if the limit is 220, fine, why does it change with height?

Thoughts?

[FjordBCRF]

@KBC

The one that still has me thinking is the variation in weights between heights, is a beginner 6’ 220 pound rider an easier carry than an experienced 220 pound rider who is 5’ 6”. Reading the thread above where ability was often mentioned, and “riding light” I just have me a brain worm over this. It’s an interesting rabbit hole to crawl down, because there are so many factors that come into it, BUT, if the limit is 220, fine, why does it change with height?

Thoughts?

I see a lot of posts about weight limits on the equestrian subreddits. My GUESS is that it has to do with weight distribution and balance. 220lbs may be considered to be more “evenly” distributed on a 6’ tall person, where on a 5’6 person, depending on how the person carries the 220lbs (top heavy/bottom heavy) could make it a harder ride on the horse.

Just a guess.

[luvmyhackney]

I think it depends on the horse and the fitness the horse has.

I have a 16.2 decent sized horse, 78” blanket who gets back sore with a heavier rider. It’s kind of embarrassing as I had a lovely heavier rider (rides better than I do) and he kept lining up in the middle of the ring with her.

My previous 15 QH had zero issues with a heavier rider.

[trubandloki]

@KBC

“it’s easy to be unaware of weight gain”

BUT

“If we weigh you and you are too heavy you are a liar and we will not refund you”

This one got me too. So weird.

[Foxglove]

FWWIW – The mule ride at the Grand Canyon weighs each rider before the ride complete with all clothing that will be worn. If someone doesn’t make the weight, money for the mule ride is refunded. The rider cannot go on the ride. My mule-riding buddy who used to lead that ride said some people try to jack the system by sending an older child dressed the same to the weigh room (it is private) to have the weight be low enough to ride the mules.

[2DogsFarm]

I guess they had a line to draw somewhere & how height figured in is weird.
Probably too difficult or waste of time for a livery operation to test for rider ability.

That said, when I showed Hunters back in the late 80s/early 90s, there was a Pro who was {ahem} “fluffy”. I’d guesstimate 200+ & around 5’7".
She showed her own OTTBs in Gamblers Choice classes & the smart money was always on her to win.
Both horses were the tall, lanky type & fences were 3’ or better.
Neither horse ever seemed bothered by the weight they carried.

[Paint_Party]

First of all, just to be clear, I believe that the good Lord makes humans in a wide variety of styles, just as horses and ponies come in all shapes and sizes. That’s what adds to the beauty of the world.

So I can understand the conflict over this:

@KBC

“it’s easy to be unaware of weight gain”

BUT

“If we weigh you and you are too heavy you are a liar and we will not refund you”

Unless someone carries around a majickal weight scale in their purse or backpack, how would they know if they’ve put on a few pounds? It sounds like the place is more pissed that someone might’ve misled them by a couple of pounds rather than simply being a couple pounds over the limit. It’s… odd.

But as for this:

@KBC

if the limit is 220, fine, why does it change with height?

I can only surmise it has to do with weight distribution, which in and of itself is an inexact calculation. But as an example, one of the ladies I ride and show with is just under 6-ft. and she is large boned and probably around 200 lbs. Shape=large rectangle. She’s a lovely rider with a correct position and horses perform for her effortlessly.

In contrast, there’s another woman at the barn who is about the same weight as the first woman, but much, much shorter. Shape=square. As a result, she ends up top-heavy in the saddle. If she becomes unbalanced, like if her horse spooks or takes a funky step, she has trouble regaining her seat. I’ve seen her tumble off in slow motion twice in the last year. Fortunately, her mare is a saint.

So I can understand why, liability-wise, this place you’ve cited has a rule about weight related to height, especially if the terrain is indeed rocky and uneven. But they could’ve worded their concerns more carefully.

[SimonSays]

From an owners perspective here. I used to share my 2 good boy geldings with a local hunter/jumper barn for their IEA shows. Both are good minded, well broke, smaller draft types. I had both with a weight limit of 180 pounds per my specifications- that way if a rider with unbalanced they could still manage without undue strain. I always felt like many people along the way allowed me to ride their horses growing up so I’ve always tried to share my horses with kids too.

Unfortunately, the last day I shared them for IEA- a rider who was short/stocky and well over 250+ pounds was allowed to ride one of my geldings. I was told oh the other team says she’s under 180- well she clearly wasn’t and my concerns were ignored. She was unbalanced, heavy on her hands leaning forward and made his back very uncomfortable- you could see the tension in his head way up in the air, his mouth and eye looked distressed and back hollowed out and when they cantered he tried to bolt with her because he was nervous and upset. I was beyond pissed and felt disrespected and that my requests were not followed appropriately. That was the last time my horses will ever be shared for IEA/IHSA.

I can understand all body shapes and types of people learning to ride. But there is definitely a challenge for appropriate mounts for all for many of these types of events where it’s drawing a ride out of a hat if you will. The negative potentials just far outweigh the good for my geldings here and I wouldn’t be interested in participating in something like this in the future.

[LilRanger]

Id say height isn’t as important as distribution. My weight is carried mostly in thighs and behind. Based on my experience carrying things, weight closer to my center of mass is easier to carry and balance than weight carried high, like broad shoulders and chest, if the rider is a beginner.

[Scribbler]

I don’t know the sources of the rules from the OP but they sound like they are from a lesson program or dude string operation.

Those horses already have it harder with multiple horses than most single owner ammie horses. And it’s guaranteed they will be ridden by beginners who lack balance and fitness, and who can’t put the horse in balance either. So I think setting a blanket weight cutoff is important.

The guides have weight limits that are likely linked to estimates of BMI. And they are likely all skilled riders to start. I doubt any back country trail guides are going to be clinically obese (BMI over 30) whereas a huge percentage of the adult population is BMI is a calculation of weight vs height, and it’s pretty accurate at the over weight cutoff (under 25) and obese (30 and up) unless you are a serious body builder with excess muscle. Most adult Americans are over BMI 25. Most equestrians are not!

Anyhow, a lifelong experienced rider who learned to ride as a kid, has great balance, but has put on some middle aged spread, is going to be way less harsh on their horse than an adult beginner of the same weight.

As far as total weight, I think BMI plus riding skill is much more important to the horse compared to pure weight on the scale. We are used these days to seeing only women riding, but obviously men ride too and a six foot man weighs a lot.

[fivestrideline]

@trubandloki

@KBC

“it’s easy to be unaware of weight gain”

BUT

“If we weigh you and you are too heavy you are a liar and we will not refund you”

This one got me too. So weird.

This gets me three.

My weight will fluctuate by 5 pounds or more in one day. And scales are notoriously uncalibrated - you can get some pretty incredible variations. Likely not 50lbs, but 10-15? Seen it on two identical scales in the same gym.

If a place is going to have a hard limit (which I have no issues with), they should be weighing in and refunding if someone is over and can’t participate. Keep the deposit or whatever.

[Scribbler]

@fivestrideline

@trubandloki

@KBC

“it’s easy to be unaware of weight gain”

BUT

“If we weigh you and you are too heavy you are a liar and we will not refund you”

This one got me too. So weird.

This gets me three.

My weight will fluctuate by 5 pounds or more in one day. And scales are notoriously uncalibrated - you can get some pretty incredible variations. Likely not 50lbs, but 10-15? Seen it on two identical scales in the same gym.

If a place is going to have a hard limit (which I have no issues with), they should be weighing in and refunding if someone is over and can’t participate. Keep the deposit or whatever.

There have been a couple of cases recently where “fat acceptance activists” tiktokkers turned up at dude ranches and were apoplectic online that their 300 or 400 pound selves weren’t allowed on the horses. One of them even said “why are horses so weak these days?”

I think this dude ranch has just had it with 300 pound people turning up and claiming to be under the weight limit and arguing with the staff.

I would add that a 300 pound novice adult would hit the ground really hard and definitely break some bones. And would be less balanced to begin with.

[Kirikou]

My guess, based on the wording, is that they run a trail riding/lesson barn and are ‘cranky’ because people aren’t respecting their stated weight limit (hence the ‘you lied to us’ part).

I also have a weight limit for my lesson string, as most of my horses are large ponies / honies and/or older horses. It’s clearly stated on my website, and I reiterate it in my initial communication with prospective students. Despite this, I’d estimate that about a quarter of the adult beginners who showed up for their first lesson exceeded the limit in my first few years teaching. In a group lesson setting, it can be awkward to address this directly—saying something like, ‘Um, you might be over the limit?’ isn’t exactly ideal—so I used to let it slide. But the honies were not happy.

Now, I have an application form where I ask for weight and height (so I can get a general idea of BMI) as well as other activities or sports they participate in. This helps me make more informed decisions—for example, I don’t necessarily want to discount a 20-year-old college football player who wants to impress his girlfriend by taking a few lessons and has good body awareness, etc.

[cayuse]

That last sentence would be enough for me to walk away.

[Willesdon]

@cayuse I read that line as a totally exasperated tour operator. People who have little to no experience of horses do not understand the consequences of carrying weight for the animal. Sadly, too many people who do have experience also lack the knowledge.

I run an equestrian tourism business and we need to have an understanding of how competent a client is on a horse so as to organise appropriate activities for them. There is absolutely no enjoyment in being over-horsed and scared and the safety of both horse and rider is essential. We ask questions, multiple questions, often several times. When a potential client offers their height and weight immediately, it is actally a good indication of some experience.

Over the years I have developed a keen nose but, even so, I had one client, at the start of a hack, admit that they had never ever sat on a horse before. We do not do nose-to-tail circular walks on 25 yo AQH in western saddles. These are hacks on forward going horses, out in the countryside side, using English tack… He went out on a lead rein, accompanied by his girlfriend who could actually ride, for a gentle walk through the village. To be fair, it was the mother of this young man who had organised the ride. When I subsequently told her how the stables had resolved the problem her lack of truth (ignorance /dishonesty) had caused, Mother replied “On a lead rein! What damage will that do to his ego?”. That reply is why the incident has stuck in my mind.

[SillyHorse]

@Scribbler

There have been a couple of cases recently where “fat acceptance activists” tiktokkers turned up at dude ranches and were apoplectic online that their 300 or 400 pound selves weren’t allowed on the horses. One of them even said “why are horses so weak these days?”

@Willesdon

Mother replied “On a lead rein! What damage will that do to his ego?”

Sometimes I think PETA has a point. But just sometimes.

[cayuse]

I understand your point 100%. And agree. Dealing with the public is more than I could ever do. But I really could do without the word “liar” in that sentence as it seems antagonistic (to me).

[albytb]

It’s a rly tough subject all around. I had a massive beefy TB gelding, but when I hit 200 I was worried I was getting too heavy and felt like my weight was impeding on my riding ability. It didn’t matter that I had ridden for 20 years—I was still heavy. He was totally fine but it motivated me to lose 60lbs lol. Easier said than done, but the horses do appreciate it.

I feel like some frank discussions need to be had and it’s on the trainers/barn owners to do it. I have a friend who is 5’11 and at least 250 if not more, and she’s a beautiful rider… but it’s very difficult to watch her go around on the 15.3 gelding with a swayback that she shareboards. I would never say anything bc it’s not my place, but still…

[McGurk]

My experience as an instructor? And helping in a friend’s hunt livery business?

People lie. They lie about their weight, and they REALLY lie about their horse experience.

Friend has gotten pretty good at asking questions that elicit accurate info about riding ability, but occasionally someone who is really good at parroting what they’ve heard gets through, and that pretty much affects everyone’s ride.

If someone is lying about their weight though, as a horse owner, do you really have any choice other than asking them to step on a scale?

And while I think the language in that IHSA statement is awful; if the horse owner tells you their weight limit is 225, you look much heavier, the horse owner has you step on the scale and you’re 260 (clearly not a calibration, heavy clothing or weight variation issue), then I understand not offering a refund.

I say all of this as an overweight rider who wouldn’t be able to ride at some places with a weight limit.

[FjordBCRF]

@McGurk

If someone is lying about their weight though, as a horse owner, do you really have any choice other than asking them to step on a scale?

I do see the Step on the Scale thing elsewhere outside the horse world because so many people are so averse to evening stepping on a scale at the doctors office. As I understand it, they dont want to be defined by a number…so many go on living life avoiding it. All that to say, people having to give a number may not have any realistic clue what they actually weigh.

We have a high ropes course nearby and everyone steps on the scale EVERY time they show up to climb. It doesn’t have the actual weight, they rigged it so it just shows colors, green if you’re under, and it turns to red if you’re over, so there are no numbers.

I don’t think people in general have an appreciation that some activities are extremely physical and hard enough when you at an ideal weight! Nor do they understand the risk component to activities such as riding (or climbing or whatever). When a horse is the in equation, we have to be stewards to the horse first and foremost.