Were you surprised? (welfare in dressage at all levels)

[ninakl]

Well for one they are required in many sports. If you’re not interested in the anatomical reasons why the cavesson is designed the way it is I am not going to convince you. My horse has not been abused or pushed in any way. In fact, he is old for his level in modern terms. But I was careful with the trainers I employed.

I must say the competition is abusive , cavessons are cruel, we must all ride bitless faction has been on the internet as long as I have been on it and I go back to the bitnet days. It’s so tiresome. There are abusive people in all disciplines. Some of the worse abuses you see are practiced by the natural horsemen people.

[ninakl]

I was unaware of who he sponsors. I don’t do much social media, i belong to some private groups and I collect cat memes. Good catch on your part:

[ejm]

Just about all the roping horses, and some other western performance horses, are ridden with a tie-down. Tie-downs don’t have a strap to tighten under the jaw but IMO would be considered a noseband.

[beowulf]

@ninakl

Well for one they are required in many sports. If you’re not interested in the anatomical reasons why the cavesson is designed the way it is I am not going to convince you. My horse has not been abused or pushed in any way. In fact, he is old for his level in modern terms. But I was careful with the trainers I employed.

I must say the competition is abusive , cavessons are cruel, we must all ride bitless faction has been on the internet as long as I have been on it and I go back to the bitnet days. It’s so tiresome. There are abusive people in all disciplines. Some of the worse abuses you see are practiced by the natural horsemen people.

I never said anything about you or your training methods. If you feel called out, that’s on you.

I’m not even in the “bitless / pro no noseband” camp. But if you think for a second that UL horses don’t have their nosebands cranked shut, you need to pay more attention. These products to prevent rubs, sores, and pressure on the facial nerves would not exist if there was not a market for it.

You won’t get rubs or facial nerve compression from a loose noseband, that’s all I’m saying.

[Bluey]

Team penning, aka crazy cattle chasing, is not very functional in real ranch world.
In fact, is painful to watch, you don’t treat cattle like that outside or in pens.

[pluvinel]

@Bluey

Team penning, aka crazy cattle chasing, is not very functional in real ranch world.
In fact, is painful to watch, you don’t treat cattle like that outside or in pens.

I agree with you about the team penning being “hard to watch”…my point is that the team penning horses and riders still need to “do a job” and are timed as part of the competition…which competitive dressage does not require

[HoolieB]

From one of the Parra threads, a member was kind enough to post screen shots of (then) sponsors: New Article on Cesar Parra Controversy

[Knights_Mom]

@ejm

Just about all the roping horses, and some other western performance horses, are ridden with a tie-down. Tie-downs don’t have a strap to tighten under the jaw but IMO would be considered a noseband.

I used to barrel race, show AQHA, rodeo’d, shown western events like reining, trail, western pleasure, horsemanship, trail. Many western events forbid a tie down.

I’m familiar. The tie down has a nose component but as that component isn’t independent from the rest of it, I just can’t consider it a typical noseband. When a piece can be independent of the tie down feature then it lends more to being considered a nose band.

As for team penning all you do is herd cattle. How is that abusive? All cattle are herded all the time. Just like sheep or goats or horses.

[Bluey]

Team penning is fun and games, for time, many horses guided by jerk and spur of the moment, cattle chased over each other and into panels. Not gently driven here and there, as in real cattle work.
Ok in arenas, do not try that when working cattle, you won’t be asked back.

I don’t think anyone said abusive?

[Montanas_Girl]

@Knights_Mom

As for team penning all you do is herd cattle. How is that abusive?

Have you ever watched team penning? It is not what I would call “abusive” by definition, but there is A LOT of terrible horsemanship and poor cattle handling displayed in that sport. Precisely because it is timed, not scored, it encourages manhandling of both horses and cattle by the participants. “Functional”? Not hardly.

Ask any trainer in the cutting, cowhorse, or ranch horse world what they think of team penners.

[Knights_Mom]

@Montanas_Girl

@Knights_Mom

As for team penning all you do is herd cattle. How is that abusive?

Have you ever watched team penning? It is not what I would call “abusive” by definition, but there is A LOT of terrible horsemanship and poor cattle handling displayed in that sport. Precisely because it is timed, not scored, it encourages manhandling of both horses and cattle by the participants. “Functional”? Not hardly.

Ask any trainer in the cutting, cowhorse, or ranch horse world what they think of team penners.

I’ve WON team pennings. I know the rules, how it’s done, what happens.

As for jerking the horses face, I used a hackamore. My QH chased on his own. I used no spurs. Like every other horse sport there is every color of riding style.

[Montanas_Girl]

Of course there is a spectrum of styles and horsemanship across all horse sports. But team penning is a very strange choice as an example of a “functional” event (you’d, as @Bluey noted above, be unceremoniously “asked” to leave for treating cattle that way on any working ranch or in most other cattle-related riding events) and your choice of that example did not indicate any knowledge of the discipline.

[Knights_Mom]

Treating cattle what way? Herding them?

[Montanas_Girl]

Running them aggressively at a high rate of speed, including into and sometimes over other cattle, horses, and even fences, repeatedly. You’re either playing coy or are a lot less familiar with team penning than you are pretending to be if you don’t know what @Bluey and I mean by this.

[Bluey]

In team penning, horses rarely work on their own, they can’t read numbers.
Many times riders use the horse’s body to block, horses don’t even see the cattle to work them.
Yes, some team penners use mechanical hackamores.
I wonder if you are participating on some other kind of event, not team penning?

[Knights_Mom]

@Montanas_Girl

Running them aggressively at a high rate of speed, including into and sometimes over other cattle, horses, and even fences, repeatedly. You’re either playing coy or are a lot less familiar with team penning than you are pretending to be if you don’t know what @Bluey and I mean by this.

I’ve not seen any of this. And I don’t appreciate your accusation that I’m making it up. I do not make things up. I’ve NEVER seen any of those things. I think YOU ARE MAKING IT UP.

[Knights_Mom]

@Bluey

In team penning, horses rarely work on their own, they can’t read numbers.
Many times riders use the horse’s body to block, horses don’t even see the cattle to work them.
Yes, some team penners use mechanical hackamores.
I wonder if you are participating on some other kind of event, not team penning?

I assure you that at all times I:

*Know my location

*Know my name

• Know what sport I’m engaged in

*Know what I was doing when I won money doing it.

I’ve team penned maybe 50 times. My barn used to run them every Friday night. I taught my OTTB to herd cattle but he wasn’t good at it. Enthusiastic but not good. My QH was great at it.

I think it’s you guys who don’t know what you’re talking about.

[Bluey]

Does your barn has team pennings where a few cattle with big numbers on them are in a small pen and two riders go in and run out certain number into another pen and time counts?

[Knights_Mom]

@Bluey

Does your barn has team pennings where a few cattle with big numbers on them are in a small pen and two riders go in and run out certain number into another pen and time counts?

My barn at that time did 2 on 1 penning. I’ve also done 3 on 2. I prefer 2 on 1. And the herd isn’t in apen, they are in the arena. You herd that specific steer into a 3 sided pen.

It’s so cute that you are doing a cowboy voire dire on me to see if I truly know what team penning is.

[Virginia_Horse_Mom]

“Cowboy voire dire”