I find the most abusive trainers are often the ones with the best credentials. Like Parra.
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I also find it odd that dressage is taking so much heat as of late.
Because in my experience, you’re less likely to encounter harshly abusive practices in the dressage world than other disciplines (at least in the US).
I’m not putting dressage riders on a pedestal; not at all. But the welfare issues I encounter most frequently in dressage are more a matter of subpar horsemanship* than Cesar Parra level abuse. 
I think competition in general brings out the worst in people. Not all people, of course. But there are a large number of people for whom competition is solely about winning, no matter the cost. That often leads to horrid practices being perpetuated.
*I’m not saying dressage riders have subpar horsemanship. I’m just saying when I’ve encountered dressage barns that I want no part of, it’s usually because I don’t like how they are managing their horses, not because they are deliberately “abusing” them. Subpar horsemanship exists across all disciplines at all levels.
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I think I said it in one of the Parra threads, but I can’t wait until this firestorm hits reining.
Some of the harshest, brutal riding I have ever seen has come from reining trainers.
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This is the crux of it for me - dressage is touted as the basis of correct riding, as it’s just supposed to be “training the horse”. If that makes sense. It is supposed to be a discipline that any horse can benefit from, so the fact that incorrect riding (BTV for a whole test, dropped backs, obvious tension, etc) and unfair training practices will create winners is… not a good look. It’s not supposed to be a beauty pageant above all else. This is why my personal beef is with the judging more than anything.
You’re not supposed to be able to “cheat” in dressage to get good scores. Plenty of people like to harp on other disciplines but like another poster said, you gotta clean up your own house first before telling someone to clean up theirs. Saying “well at least we don’t see people riding in draws on a curb in the warmup” doesn’t help - I don’t think many of us are stock horse people and thus we can’t do much to change that world. We CAN work on our own though.
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I think we can all agree competitive dressage has departed from its foundational roots.
Which is true of every single competitive discipline. They started out of a pragmatic need but have morphed into something entirely unique.
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I guess it needs to be repeated that I am not excusing any sort of abuse in dressage because abuse is rampant in other disciplines. Dressage is my passion and it pains me to see it go the direction it is. If the majority are assuming that dressage is where all abuse originates, then we have a very serious misunderstanding of what is happening in other disciplines.
Remember the 2 or 3 year old horses who laid down during their reining pattern in the past few years because they completely shut down? Appalling. It generated some interest regarding horse welfare but not enough to change industry standards. I was shocked when I saw people on SM excuse what had happened because the rider pet the horse while it was laying on the ground.
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Same. It was eliminated from the Olympics for a reason, and Anky, who had “successfully” switched from dressage to reining, had to find another platform for her riding. Now reining is an isolated discipline, though, and will only impose on itself its own regulations to remain what it is: isolated and self-serving.
I think the power of cell phones cannot be over-emphasized. Warmup rings have become show rings in that riders are being watched publicly. Short clips of 10 seconds can cause an uproar by thousands within minutes. Putting ONE hidden camera in real time, unedited, on a western horse hung by its head from the rafters for hours and then collapsing from exhaustion will be needed to alert the world to this insane practice.
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I was not surprised. Not because I see that sort of thing but because people motivated by winning and money will do awful things to achieve their goals (and this is true in all aspects of humanity) and it is very easy to be gaslit into thinking that is ok.
That being said, I have never witnessed truly systematic abusive riding/training. I have witnessed moments where people have lost their temper, heck I’ve lost my temper (and I’m not proud of it), shit happens. I’ve certainly seen the product of incorrect training but I can’t say if it was abusive training or just bad training (there is a difference).
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Thus famous quote, from Edmund Burke: the only thing necessary for evil to triumph is for good men to say nothing."
There is terrible abuse going on in all equestrian disciplines and its ALL horrible and inexcusable.
And until we all are willing to stand up and report, call to account…the abuse will continue. There needs to be a community wide expression of disapproval wherever the abuse occurs…
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I agree to a point. But I feel like there is this weird culture around Dressage. It’s very common in other disciplines for people to tout that they have a dressage background or use dressage principles. Everyone from Cowboys, Hunter Jumpers and Eventers. At least in my area. But I also find a lot of vilifying dressage, sometimes from the same people. And usually while I’m watching them put tie-downs on their horse, see-saw the ever loving heck out of their horse, use harsh bits and generally not seem to have a clue about how to influence their horses body in a healthy way. I don’t think dressage should get a pass. But at the same time I almost think over vilifying dressage as worse than all the other disciplines is giving them a pass. And some disciplines the abuse is done a lot more out in the open. And yes we better stand up now and not desensitized to it.
I don’t really watch competition dressage though. I get more joy out of my own journey and when I do watch it’s usually an amateur on an off-breed horse making their way up the levels and absolutely have a bond with their horse. That’s what I would rather see, personally. To me that’s what dressage is about. Not the biggest trot.
Well my quote didn’t work and I can’t figure it out, sorry about that.
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Show me a person who hasn’t lost their temper and I’ll show you a liar. It happens to all of us at some time or another.*
That’s the scary thing about 10 second cell phone videos. I know I’ve had moments that I would be mortified if someone videoed and broadcast. I learned from them. But they still happened.
*I feel like this is the moment where someone will chime in and say, “I have never lost my temper.” To which I say, that is awesome, congrats, you are definitely in the minority.
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100%
Even just teaching my boy to passage, I’ve been nervous to post videos of it. Not because I am being abusive, but because I am not perfect and it looks kinda messy and all over the place. But someone could totally take it out of context.
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Not even losing my temper (which of course has happened, much to my shame) but sometimes there are just moments where the video doesn’t tell the whole story. As an example, I set up my phone to video my schooling ride the other day because I happened to have the arena to myself (unusual at my barn). About 20 minutes in, my horse started fllipping his head, snorting, going above the bit, and generally acting like the world was ending, to the point that I had to end the session. If someone saw my video, they would no doubt think I was yanking his mouth, his bridle was too tight, etc. But no…that was my horse saying “Well, winter seems to be over because the gnats are out and one just got in my nose please find my fly mask with the nose net before our next ride.”
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Agree. All disciplines have skeletons in the closet.
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My last one was memorable - horse had pulled a full 25’ or rope through a blocker ring, so I tied in the stall. Horse proceeded to repetitively double barrel the wall when it realized it couldn’t get off the tie.
Not sure what was going through the horse’s mind, but I was highly annoyed and addressed the kicking in a way that I am not proud of. Horse has never had a problem tying since.
We were both having a very bad day, I guess.
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The FEI removed reining as a discipline in 2021, before it could become an Olympic sport. There were disagreements about show stewarding, doping, and the minimum age for competition horses (FEI min. age is 7 yrs old).
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Yes. 20 years ago, I had broken my ankle (yes a horse injury) and my orthopedic surgeon was an amateur reiner. He told me, straight faced, that he had to buy a big ranch (his wife did not agree to live on a ranch he said) in order to have a place to put his lame futurity horses (btw, I live in one of the biggest reining states). I assumed that this was a retirement home for his old horses, but then he explained that futurities were for 2 year old reining horses. This guy was 6’2" and most reining horses (at the time) were like 15 hands or 15.2. Once people accept something like this as normal, the sport has jumped the shark. So, at least 20 years ago, reining jumped the shark. I don’t think that dressage is there yet. I would like us to fix it now.
If we don’t do someting NOW, we will need an act of Congress, e.g. legislation like Safe Sport, to get it done.
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Reiners lasted forever in the old days. Nowadays they don’t. My friend bought one of those small former reiners. After she sunk a kazillion dollars into trying to fix him, and after he nearly crippled her, she retired him to a farm in Kansas. He’s only 15 and has been off in the back for years. Big guy pounding on little horse.
She’d ride him and then he’d get a zing of back pain and he’d go bronc.
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Two year old futurities have been a thing in my disciplines/breeds my entire life and I’m in my 40s.
I grew up showing Arabs and we had “junior horse” under saddle classes for 2 and 3 year olds. I was probably a teenager, maybe even college age, when they redefined “junior horse” to be 5 and under.
From my POV, while there was always some criticism about doing too much too young, collective concern about 2 year old under saddle classes started when European warmbloods became a “thing” in this country. Very few people had WBs when I was a child, but by the time I graduated high school they were becoming dominant in the show ring with many NA breeders established. And they came with all this lure and mystery: “the Germans don’t even touch them until they are 5 or 6! That’s how you’re supposed to do it!”
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FEI wanted complete power over reining, FEI being an association that was supposed to oversee, not micromanage from a position of ignorance of what reining is.
Monopoly governance because FEI is the only game in town to go to the Olympics and the FEI is pushing their weight around doesn’t fit everyone.
Reining is doing well on it’s own, has been trying to address any problems as they surface, just as dressage and any other discipline associations are.
The example of western pleasure hanging horses head’s hig overnight is not true any more, as AQHA stewards are trained to cruise show grounds all day and night and if any such is noticed, is prohibited, there will be consequences.
In any discipline there are bad trainers and it takes everyone to call them out, document if you can, report any that seems abusive, call stewards out.
Then, also already noticed, be sure what you notice is real abuse, not someone doing something we don’t understand in a way that seems odd.
True abuse is thankfully rare and I think happens most “behind the barn”, why is hard to find and eliminate if it is not noticed.
The worst abuse I have seen is in kid’s playdays, terrible riding, many poor old lame horses, is appalling, has been the same for decades.
Each one of us have different experiences, don’t we.
We are all different, are we, but should never excuse being different to putting up with abuse as a difference, is not, is a wrong to be fought, with clear certainty of what is right.
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