You’re wasting your breath on this one, @NoSuchPerson. She cannot and will not be educated. Ever. The ignore feature is very handy. 
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I had stuff typed too and deleted it. Not worth talking into the ether.
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I will mention, I think there is a lack of knowledge how an in the bridle horse with a spade bit in their mouth works.
Those kinds of advanced bits are for already finely trained horses to carry, with carefully trained hands.
They work as a strict control, keep the horse’s face on the vertical, as a deviation of it pokes in the palate and forces the head back into position.
That is why those horses tend to become stiff, the bit hobbles some expression they normally have with a less strict bit.
A spade works as intended and is only for experienced riders under careful supervision and used on already finely trained horses to respond where a spade is finishing them in the bridle.
Plenty of horses never get there.
At least that is how Don Dodge explained that to us, decades ago.
Maybe today they have other ideas, other bits, that I would not know.
Comparing a spade bit of any kind to a full bridle in dressage just because it has shanks will show how those are really opposite bit actions and ways horses move once trained to each different kind of responses.
An example of not knowing what we don’t know.
Happens to all at some time, eventually the lightbulb comes on, maybe.
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I’m not sure I was ever a person who thought I knew everything, but the more I learn, the more I become aware of just how much I don’t know. One of the things I hate about getting old is that I’m running out of time - I’ll never be able to know everything. 
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This is a perfect example, you admit to riding in the curb two handed in warm up or for correction. Which is how it SHOULD be, but not how it is in western dressage where the curb is ridden two handed with a taught rein, for the entire warm up and test. The ultimate goal is to ride one handed, the entire time. The fact that someone picks up the curb in both hands to reef the horse in the mouth in the warm up pen or behind the judge’s back does not make it ok.
Again, in dressage the curb is only ridden along WITH a snaffle, on an advanced horse, for advanced tests. The fact that some people put a curb on too early to crank their horse into a frame, or ride off the curb in the competition ring is WRONG. There are many posts in the dressage forum discussing it. It should not be used as a reason why it’s ok in western dressage because it’s not ok in regular dressage.
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No you put words in my mouth. I never said WD should be ridden 2 hands in a taunt rein. I said CONTACT. Contact doesn’t have to be via a taunt rein. That’s where folks keep on messing up - contact does not require a taunt rein.
The 2 handed contact of a dressage double bridle is way more than what a competent WD rider does.
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Oh look. 2 handed contact on the curb. Pic from an ad. No one says boo.
Guess that’s why horsey is BTV. The snaffle rein is looser than the curb.
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Incorrect use of the curb in dressage does not justify use of the curb in western dressage.
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I somewhat agree.
But you can ride 2 handed in SOME contact in a curb but not with a taunt rein. Rather, a loose rein. Totally appropriate for this riders level.
Like this one.
What a wonderful pair they were!
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Ah, but it’s not just the curb, and that makes your argument apples/oranges . There is a bradoon, and ideally, you ride from the bradoon with the curb looser than the snaffle.
Ideally? I can post a thousand pics where the rider is riding off the curb in dressage. Your example disproves your theory, and does not affirm it. Riding with 2 bits and 2 hands seems a little bit more intrusive than one bit on a loose rein with 2 handed soft contact.
What is your comment on the contact with the bay mustang? Do you see the loose rein, still maintaining contact but with the bit shank in a neutral position despite two (gasp) hands on the reins?
My comment on that is, that is not in dressage terms riding with contact, horse on the bit.
Dressage and western type riding are really two very different disciplines.
Each one follows their own concepts and uses and are for different ways of horses to perform.
When mixed as western dressage is a new discipline still trying to find it’s way, why they are not sure yet what to judge and for what purpose.
Reining had same questions when it started, over decades refined to what is today and I expect more changes will yet happen as time passes, as has happened in dressage also.
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It’s not a theory. I’m not sure what, if any, dressage training you’ve had, especially in a double bridle, but your comments indicate that it’s little, if any.
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Let’s do a google image search of Western Dressage, and post images of riders in curbs from the first page - no scrolling allowed.
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Let’s look in the rule book for allowed equipment at the lowest level:
Summary: 8.5" shank, 3.5" port, 8mm mouthpiece - ride in it at any level.
Compared to “standard” dressage where the entire bit can not exceed 6" (shank 10cm and the purchase 5cm) and the port height is maxed at 30mm. Oh, and you can’t even ride in one until you’re third level or above. Oh, and the mouthpiece is minimum of 12mm.
Summary: 6" shank, 1" port, 12mm mouthpiece - must be third level or above.
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Excellent post. I still can’t wrap my head around “some people misuse the curb in dressage and some horses are BTV thus it makes it ok for western dressage to do the same.”
In actual western, real educated qualified western trainers gradually step their horses into the curb after the horse has proved ready through training. A “starter” curb is often used before a horse is considered finished.
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Finishing my Old Man in a curb was on my list of things to do that we never got around to before he needed more-or-less full retirement. In his prime, he was Third-Fourth. Tempi changes, lateral work, it was all there, though we never did show dressage (he wouldn’t have done well anyways, he’s an efficient mover, not a flashy one)
It’s not a “slap it on and go” bit. It’s not for someone riding training level. And it CERTAINLY is not meant for firm contact like WD makes it out to be (look at the pictures, some of those bits are at “full lock”, on their curb chains).
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WD is quite sure what qualifies as what. WD has its way. It’s not looking for one.
The ONLY ones who are confused are regular dressage riders.
Not sure what the intent of these pics are.
