I wanna try that - looks like fun! 
Looks like a cross between dressage, trail, and horsemanship. Interesting.
This is Eitan’s new spin on things, since he split off from Western Dressage.
It’s “Cowboy Dressage”.
I wish they called that something else than dressage.
I suggest Western Pattern classes or some such.
Horse seems to be performing this and that, but not really collected and with many resistances all along, in the transitions and any change of direction.
Not at all the lightness, forward, rythm and smoothness you aim for in dressage.
I am glad those classes give riders one more place to train towards and show, but dressage I think is a misnomer for that.
Since I dabble in dressage and like trail obstacles, I kind of like this. Dressage means training after all. As a kid we used to do western pattern classes, but after 40 years can’t remember what it was called. The Aphc had them at their breed shows. My little AQHA mare has pretty nice movement, but I really don’t want to show dressage. The “serious” atmosphere always makes me so nervous. My mare is great at these type of movements on this video, the more “silly” trail obstacles such as pool noodle curtains and walking over a mattress, is not her favorite things. I think we both we like it. Thanks for sharing.
[QUOTE=craz4crtrs;6993120]
Since I dabble in dressage and like trail obstacles, I kind of like this. Dressage means training after all. As a kid we used to do western pattern classes, but after 40 years can’t remember what it was called. The Aphc had them at their breed shows. My little AQHA mare has pretty nice movement, but I really don’t want to show dressage. The “serious” atmosphere always makes me so nervous. My mare is great at these type of movements on this video, the more “silly” trail obstacles such as pool noodle curtains and walking over a mattress, is not her favorite things. I think we both we like it. Thanks for sharing.[/QUOTE]
Dressage means training in a certain way, not just any training.
Yes, that training implied with the word dressage is a good way to train, techniques that will help most any horse with normal gaits and performance requirements become better at doing whatever they will do.
Even if some traditional dressage training may help roping horses perform better, you would not call roping training itself "roping dressage?
[QUOTE=Bluey;6993138]
Dressage means training in a certain way, not just any training.
Yes, that training implied with the word dressage is a good way to train, techniques that will help most any horse with normal gaits and performance requirements become better at doing whatever they will do.
Even if some traditional dressage training may help roping horses perform better, you would not call roping training itself "roping dressage?;)[/QUOTE]
Maybe. Though I do agree with you in calling it “Western Dressage”, it needs a different name. To me, Dressage is in an english saddle learning certain things to help you and your horse, moving up through the levels, etc. My dressage lessons have really helped free up my stiff little mare and boy, can she now bend around a cow. LOL. And, the dressage has really helped her move all four corners independently. Her backing and side passing is now fluid and fun to ride. :yes:
But, this looks like fun.
I like this https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xgBJB1iTnXM
and this https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QBY2_E9BiIY
Paula
That does look like fun. A question maybe someone could answer: how is the judging done for this class? Is the emphasis based on the horse successfully navigating the obstacles and at the right gait, or is there a component based on the “quality” of the gait? I’m not a dressage rider but I do enjoy going to dressage shows (and watching the big ones online) and it seems that most of the dressage judge comments I’ve seen are on the quality of the gait - impulsion, relaxation, not stiff through back, etc. - not just whether the horse stayed in the gait for the right portion of test.
Let me clarify - I’m really asking this for understanding, not trying to rachet up the debate about what gets to be called dressage. It just looks like a fun class and I’d like to know more.
I’m not knocking the Cowboy Dressage tests, but why are they more “Fun” than a regular dressage test? I come from a hunter/jumper background. Any horse can and should be able to negotiate around and over poles on the ground. The pattern and the requirements for doing it well are the same with or without the poles. So why is having them more entertaining? I use similar props to teach beginners, but once the rider understands riding a horse between the aids they aren’t really necessary.
Another question. If dressage improved cattle work, why does it have to be done in an english saddle? It’s the correct performance of the exercises that improved the horse, not the saddle.
Longride 1, I agree with you of course. An English saddle should not be necessary at all since it’s not about the accouterments.
Paula
So maybe cutters should be shown in bareback pads, and the big Arabian shows should have ‘dress like a firefighter’ classes rather than their traditional costume classes. Really, I mean what’s the point of tradition and rule books anyway? Why bother having them? If I want to do it the way I want to do it I should be allowed to do whatever I want, wherever I want, I paid good money to compete, right? Compete in what based on what and against what set of rules I don’t know b/c I threw them in the trash can but hey, I’m here to compete!
Dressage is a system of training. It happens that many types of showing use that system - FEI Dressage, Eventing, Driving, Working Equitation, Doma Vaquera. Not all of these use “dressage” saddles. Dressage can be done with a bareback pad or with no saddle at all - see classical in hand work. If you want to show FEI dressage you have to use a “Dressage” saddle. If you event you can get by with an all purpose. If you show Working Equitation and your “national” tack is Navaho you can show bareback or western. If you show Doma Vaquera you will need the Iberian tack. If you drive you’ll do it in harness. Cowboy Dressage competitions may be a bit of a misnomer, but western dressage should do exactly what craz4crtrs referred to - use classical dressage training to improve a western horse for western cattle work.
As for showing, the skills come first, then the competition to show off the skills, and then the rules and traditions. While dressage has existed as a more or less formulated training system for hundreds of years, it only became a competition about 100 years ago, and what we know as FEI dressage competition is only a tad over 60 years old. Those rules weren’t written by de la Guerineire even if they are based on his training methods. Even the core directives are still being changed. 200 years from now if dressage is still used in competitions and FEI dressage and any other type of dressage competition are still are around, no one will argue that one is traditional and the other isn’t since both will have the patina of age and a 60 year difference in rule writing won’t seem significant.
but longride, I believe you agree there will be rules for competition and equipment? 60 or 100 or ___ years from now?
Looked to me like a trail class where the competitor didn’t have to learn the course, but had it read.
I guess I don’t understand your point, Katerine. I’m not a great fan of Cowboy Dressage, but they do have directives, rules and a tradition. If I carp a bit at their use of the word dressage it isn’t because of the tack. It’s because their directives minimize the dressage part of the package.
GotMyPony, I inadvertently got into a discussion on the Cowboy Dressage FB page and between watching their videos and reading their directives what I gather they want to see is minimal visible aids, “soft” gaits - ie minimal suspension and maximum relaxation, and smooth performance. Dressage work may be used to get the horse to this point, but execution of the dressage exercises in a way that works the muscles and builds strength is not what they want to see in the ring. Nor, if I’m getting this right, do they want to see improved gaits if that means greater amplitude and expression. Instead they want to see movement that conserves energy and requires the least effort. I heard a lot about the comfort for the rider, and not much about improving athleticism of the horse. That doesn’t mean that isn’t a goal, but it’s not out front. They got really snippy when I talked about suspension in the gaits as a safety feature to protect the horse’s joints and ligaments. Suspension is to be non existent or minimal and they show video of a lope with no moment when all four feet are off the ground.
Paula wants to compete in _____________ dressage whilst wearing a basketball jersey and sitting on a custom made saddle mattress made of cantaloupe skins and frisbees, tradition and rules be damned.
I think that’s disrespectful. that is my issue with all of it. I do ‘gaited’ dressage which does adhere to traditional dressage principles in both training and tack, and thoughtfully STOPS before compromising the horse’s ability to perform and still gait.
I think CD is a way to inflate Eitan’s ego. I wish WDAA and NAWD would create one union and go forward- we have a Western Dressage competitor who shows in my GMO’s schooling shows- and that is a NICE horse and a nice rider- it’s good riding. In any saddle.
