Western dressage - now THIS is interesting!!!

[GotMyPony]

Thank you, LR1, I appreciate the explanation. I was guessing that was the emphasis instead of a perceived “quality” of the gaits. It really does look like the QH show trail classes I used to see in East Texas. (I do still think it looks like fun.)

Shortly after I posted “That looks like fun,” someone replied, “Why does dressage have to be fun?” It doesn’t really but since I work a regular job, I prefer for my off-work pursuits to be fun. Working in an arena, I’d rather be side-passing over a pole, backing out of an L-shape, trotting over poles. I know I could do those same movements without the poles but having the poles gives it the feel of a game to me. My personal philosophy is just about everything is better as a game. I work at my job… I want to have fun in my hobbies. But to each his/her own!

[paulaedwina]

RE: Paula wants to compete in _____________ dressage whilst wearing a basketball jersey and sitting on a custom made saddle mattress made of cantaloupe skins and frisbees, tradition and rules be damned.

Daaaamn girl, what you callin’ my name for? Frankly I’d love to compete in everything in my one saddle. Fortunately for me the CCWC (Carroll County Western Circuit) doesn’t care that it’s an endurance saddle or that I am wearing tall boots and breeches. The WDAA doesn’t care that it’s an endurance saddle either. Unfortunately the dressage people do care so until I can lay down another thou for a dressage-legal EZ fit saddle I can’t play in their sandbox on my bareback pad or my EZ fit treeless. I think it’s unfortunate and unnecessarily inflexible. I do not see it as the equivalent of what you describe Katarine. It’s a horse, it’s a saddle, it’s an exercise, it’s a competition.

I don’t see it as disrespecting anything, but we are all entitled to our opinions. I do understand now why my attitude rubs you the wrong way (because you think it’s disrespectful). I respect that even though I don’t share the POV.

Paula

[katarine]

I paid less than 500 bucks for a wintec dressage saddle and before that, less than 500 for an old used Kiefer.

No one promised you a rose garden, or an invitation down centerline.

[paulaedwina]

Thank you Katarine. There’s a long journey to this treeless that I imagine is suited for another time. The Wintec and the Keifer were all tried among other things before we went treeless. But that really wasn’t the point of my post.

Paula

[katarine]

It is a set of rules and regs. Wanting exceptions of any ilk is still asking the same…for someone to change the rules for you.

[paulaedwina]

I see that this is how you perceive it, but I have a different point of view. I think that rules always change and that tack rules change all the time (bits for example).

Paula

[gaitedincali]

I still think Western Dressage is interesting. It seems to have some sane people behind it.

Cowboy Dressage has officially jumped the shark, IMHO. The recent FB discussions pretty much cured me of any desire to be involved in that craziness.

[longride1]

Katarine - no one has asked that the rules be changed to suit them. People have formed large groups of similar interest (ie western dressage or working equitation) and written their own rules. If western dressage becomes a USEF discipline, it won’t be ruled by the Dressage division or have rules written by them. The Dressage division will continue its mission of being the voice of the FEI and provider of competitions to prepare horses for FEI dressage. My point is that this is has already been done by numerous groups, even within the FEI, so I’m having a hard time understanding your objections.

[katarine]

longride1, Paula doesn’t like the existing USEF dressage equipment list in it’s current form, as it stands, their accouterments list is exclusive in her opinion. She thinks you oughta be free to ride at GP in a sundress and el campanero pad.

[Core6430]

The saddlery rules for dressage are pretty broad already.

“1. An English type saddle with stirrups is compulsory for all tests and classes other than FEI tests. An English type saddle may be constructed with or without a tree but cannot have a horn, swell, gallerie, or open gullet. Australian, Baroque, Endurance, McClellan, Spanish, Stock, or Western saddles are not permited nor are modifed versions of these saddle”

The reasons for not allowing certain styles of saddles was not to pick on certain group’s, but based on allowing the rider freedom of leg movement and ability to balance over their feet. Western saddles have customarily been designed to hold a rider in a position that isn’t conducive to the position required for a rider to effectively use their aids. It’s kind of the same idea as Saddle Seat saddles being used in saddleseat classes instead of western saddles… the saddle was made to help the horse and rider move in certain ways. Western saddles have primarily been designed for comfort and stability, not for sitting a huge strided trot with a rider correctly balanced over their feet. On the flip side… most dressage riders can’t ride the big trot either so we buy ‘dressage’ saddles with massive thigh blocks and call it dressage (they look like aussie saddles).

The rules weren’t designed for exclusionary purposes, but to encourage correct development of horse AND rider.

Also… they changed the rules on attire this year to be a heck of a lot more relaxed (for level one shows). I personally can’t help but think it’s a result of WD and the fear of losing potential dressage riders to it.

[enjoytheride]

But Paula you CAN compete in regular dressage in your saddle.

[Equibrit]

Really funky geometry.

[Bluey]

[QUOTE=Equibrit;6999503]
Really funky geometry.[/QUOTE]

Yes, that.
Didn’t make much sense.

The tests in dressage classes are building the skills of the horses and riders up in very specific ways.

Those tests ask the simpler ways of going first.
Once the horse and rider can do that well, then move on to more difficult questions.

The class shown in the OP video seemed just like a quick very beginner trail class you could do with any horse just peddling along?

[Equibrit]

It seems that this is the equivalent of the NFL or MLB; dumbed down and designed for the USA to excel, because no other country takes part !

[katarine]

WDAA is big in Canada.

[paulaedwina]

[QUOTE=enjoytheride;6999384]
But Paula you CAN compete in regular dressage in your saddle.[/QUOTE]

I can? My EZ fit is an endurance type saddle with a large external pommel to keep the saddle off his withers. And according to the rules stated above,

“Australian, Baroque, Endurance, McClellan, Spanish, Stock, or Western saddles are not permited nor are modifed versions of these saddle”

It’s by no means a deep saddle, not even a bulky saddle (it’s treeless) so I’d wager those people who need big thigh blocks to sit a big trot would have a heck of a time with my saddle. It has no thigh blocks.

http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8541/8650882239_725f04da83.jpg

I appreciate the irony Core6430 finds in the rationale against the western type saddle when some of the bulkier dressage saddles lock you in pretty well.

ETA: Re I personally can’t help but think it’s a result of WD and the fear of losing potential dressage riders to it.

They should be afraid, because they will. Look, I would very much like to take Fella to some schooling shows and some ride-a-tests (one of my old barns is hosting some right here in our neighborhood), and try him at Training this year, but I don’t have gear. The guy who made Fella’s EZ fit that we love so much has an English prototype that he thinks works well too. I can’t wait to try it, but it’s going to be another $1000 saddle. That kind of money takes planning. Somebody loaned me her Ansur, but unfortunately it was too small for me.

I would love to do a couple of schooling shows in my bareback pad if they object to my endurance saddle, but that takes inveigling of the judge of the day and all kinds of shennanigans. So I’ve put aside my Training tests and have picked up my WD level 1 tests and will study those. And I’ll renew my PVDA membership when I have a saddle. Maybe next year. In the mean time all I have to do to make my endurance saddle WD legal is to put fenders on my English stirrup leathers, and I have fenders.

Paula

[enjoytheride]

Have you asked anyone who runs dressage schooling shows if your saddle would be permitted?

[paulaedwina]

[QUOTE=enjoytheride;6999740]
Have you asked anyone who runs dressage schooling shows if your saddle would be permitted?[/QUOTE]

The rules seem pretty straight forward and clearly say no endurance saddles or modified endurance saddles. I can ask. I’d inquired about a bareback saddle (it looks like a pad but it has plastic panels in it and stirrups)http://www.aussiesaddle.com/Products/Saddle/bareback_pad.html

And it was a no so I cannot imagine they’d okay this (mine is all black).

http://ezfittreelesssaddles.com/assets/images/english-leathers.gif

However, if you think I’d have a chance I’d be happy to inquire.

Paula

[Pocket_Pony]

Well you could always ask them if you could ride the test HC - so you’d get a score but wouldn’t be in the running for ribbons. It would at least give you feedback on what the judge sees in you/your horse.

I thought the question of “Why does dressage have to be fun?” funny. Why wouldn’t it be fun? If it isn’t fun I’m not going to do it - this is a hobby for me, not a job, and I don’t spend hours of my time and all of my money on something I don’t enjoy! :lol:

I thought the video in the OP was an example of something that, to me, looked more fun than a regular dressage test. I find it interesting to work with obstacles rather than in an empty arena - it adds a certain “purpose” to the work, even if it is just maneuvering between two cones or keeping a certain distance around a circle of ground poles or trotting over poles without touching them.

I also think it is interesting to consider that rideability is a factor in judging vs. “quality” of gaits when I see so many people in “regular” dressage that cannot ride their horses that are too big and bouncy for them. I’ve seen so many people who have their trainers warm up their horses for them because the horse is realistically just too much for the rider - both in size and gaits and temperament.

I don’t show so really it is no skin off my back either way, but I would like to see more appropriate horse/rider combinations - both for the horse and for the rider. If “other” “dressage” gives people some goals to work toward with their “not-so-fancy” mounts, then I’m all for it. If it opens doors for better riding, better horsemanship, better communication, then I think that’s a good thing.

Of course, with the new western/cowboy dressage there will be trainers who find a way to screw it all up, just like with any other discipline! Personally for me that’s why I’m not big into showing - turning things into a competition takes away from the purpose of the training . . . for me, anyway.

[Core6430]

Paula,

The GMO’s have a lot of leeway in making up their own rules for schooling shows. Most follow USDF rules because it makes sense to do so. The are especially lenient if you’re riding HC.

I’m on the board of a GMO and we’ve allowed non-traditional saddles due to physic issues with horse or rider. The bareback pad would be a no-go for safety reasons, but I would vote to allow your treeless saddle.

I think if you explain why you use that saddle then they would allow you to compete in it at schooling shows.

[QUOTE=paulaedwina;6999765]
The rules seem pretty straight forward and clearly say no endurance saddles or modified endurance saddles. I can ask. I’d inquired about a bareback saddle (it looks like a pad but it has plastic panels in it and stirrups)http://www.aussiesaddle.com/Products/Saddle/bareback_pad.html

And it was a no so I cannot imagine they’d okay this (mine is all black).

http://ezfittreelesssaddles.com/assets/images/english-leathers.gif

However, if you think I’d have a chance I’d be happy to inquire.

Paula[/QUOTE]