Western dressage: showing in a bosal or bitless bridle

[Draftmare]

Curious if anybody does this, and what your set up looks like. Pros and cons to going with a bosal or bitless?

Looking for alternatives for a horse that is hard to bit. I have tried every metal that I could think of. Finally went to rubber. It worked for about a year, and then my mare started bracing against it. I switched her to Happy Mouth and things were perfect until a week ago when I found a huge chunk missing out of my bit. I don’t really want to spend another $60 on a bit that only lasted me 3.5 months. She was broke out in a hackamore, so I don’t think transitioning her back would be hard, I just worry about collection and lateral work.

[2_amp_1_2_Geldings]

My cowhorse is young and not 100% solid in the bridle, so even in training she’s gone back and forth. After the winter off, I just started riding again and have put her back in the hackamore. It rides much more like riding in the bridle to me, rather than the snaffle. My mare in particular collects much better in the hackamore than the snaffle, so I don’t think I’d worry about that as long as you’re familiar with riding in the hackamore or are riding with someone who can help you out.

[Draftmare]

What kind of hackamore do you use?

[2_amp_1_2_Geldings]

5/8" inch soft core bosal.

[goodhors]

Have you checked the rules? Horses over a certain age can’t be wearing a bosal in competition.

Just wondering if you have a Trainer or are taking lessons on this horse? What you describe of horse bracing on the bit, previous issues in other posts, leads me to think your rein handling, riding, may need some attention and correction. May not be the horse at all. Of course you don’t mean to do things, but it is still happening. Video helps you catch your mistakes, stuff you “never knew I was doing that” which horse is not happy with. I love mares, but they are picky and you have to often “do better” to get their best in return.

We use our mares, have not had bit issues until rein handling needed improvement. Nothing wrong with the bit. Lessons got hands on reins back to correct signaling, horses were happy again. Some of those mares used the same bit for a lot of years.

There really is “No Magic Bit”. Problems improve with better riding, handling of the reins, better riding in the saddle. Put your money into lessons, not different equipment.

[Draftmare]

I’m taking weekly lessons. My mare has been like this since she was broke out.

[Draftmare]

Oh, and hacks are legal on all age horses in western dressage.

[mvp]

[QUOTE=Draftmare;9027019]
I’m taking weekly lessons. My mare has been like this since she was broke out.[/QUOTE]

What does your pro say?

I don’t usually reply with such a pat, turn-you-away answer, but there is a reason in this case:

Making a hackamore horse in the true sense is a pretty advanced thing. IMO, anyone doing it needs to be shown how by someone else who has made up a bridle horse… or many.

Bridleless, OTOH, can mean so many different pieces of equipment with many different senses of how the horse will be trained to respond to a signal from the rider’s hand.

And I’d venture to say that each of the bridleless set ups that I can think of entail a different training philosophy than does riding a horse in a traditional stiff, rawhide covered bosal.

So for this particular question-- should I go bridleless or ride in a hackamore-- I think it does need to be answered in conjunction with the particular trainer who is teaching you and his/her experience.

The shorter way of saying this is that I’d find someone who had made up a Vaquero-style bridle horse if I wanted to learn how to ride a horse in a hackamore… in a way that benefited his education. And I think it would take me a long, long time to learn that set of skills.

[Fillabeana]

If you have a horse that consistently braces against the bit, riding that horse in a bosal before you solve the bracing problem completely will very probably create a horse that is Really, Really Bracy.

Agreed with mvp that should you want to have your horse go in a nose, you need a trainer that excels in training bridle horses in the Vaquero or Californio tradition.

I saw your other post, about which bit to buy, and didn’t reply.

I think that you don’t need a new bit, but rather a new training philosophy, and possibly a different trainer.

If it were my horse, I would completely abandon the idea of riding with a constant contact for at least six months, if not a year. And I would make triple sure that every time I picked up a rein, the horse responded by softening to the rein.

A mild, well made sidepull bridle (no leverage, no hard rope noseband or knots on the noseband) could be very helpful in reeducating your nice mare, with the help of the horsemen listed below or someone who has an excellent understanding of their methods.

If you want to explore that idea further, I would recommend Harry Whitney, Dr. Deb Bennett, Buck Brannaman as resources.

[Fillabeana]

And with the horsemen I suggested, you would have lateral work (half pass, haunches in, etc) and collection well established before moving to a bosal.

A sidepull bridle would be appropriate from the start, or to reeducate a horse that is fussy mouthed and braces against the bit.

[Fillabeana]

Edit…darned auto cow wrecked…
Should have said, go in a bosal…not go in a nose

[CHT]

I showed Western Dressage in a bosal last year at a recognized show (FEI judges). The issue I had was both judges wanted me to keep a more consistent contact than you really want when using the bosal in a more traditional manner.

I don’t know about American rules, but in Canada, the rules are limiting what you can show in bitless wise.

[CassieTackShop]

As everyone has offered, going back to basics will benefit greatly, whether using side pull, new trainer for your purpose or venturing into a bit. And keep in mind the goal of Dressage, both Classical and Western.

I would also like to recommend looking in Mylers. I have personally seen great results with horses who would brace or were difficult to bit (if you are open to the idea of working with bits). First, make sure it is nothing medical with your horse, then find the right fit for their mouth, keeping in mind where certain bits might “hit” and affect a sensitive horse. They do make customs if you contact them directly. This Comfort Snaffle is my go-to for helping a slightly confused or green horse. You can eventually bump up into different bits per level your horse advances and responds. The bonus is that if your horse rides well in a particular port, they make the same ports in English, so the transition works well when used correctly. Here’s a larger selection so if you were interested, you could read up on the pro’s and con’s of each level. Myler also makes a great booklet that explains the levels, ports, cheek styles, etc.

[NoSuchPerson]

I tried a couple different Mylers and had no luck with any of them with my mule. They all have too much movement. He seems to prefer a bit that offers good tongue relief and that doesn’t move inside his mouth, i.e. no joints.

Thus far, his least hated bits seem to be the Bomber Happy Tongue and Bomber Blue. Both are supposedly dressage legal under USEF, but I don’t know if they are also approved for western dressage.

[csaper58]

[QUOTE=Draftmare;9025230]
Curious if anybody does this, and what your set up looks like. Pros and cons to going with a bosal or bitless?

Looking for alternatives for a horse that is hard to bit. I have tried every metal that I could think of. Finally went to rubber. It worked for about a year, and then my mare started bracing against it. I switched her to Happy Mouth and things were perfect until a week ago when I found a huge chunk missing out of my bit. I don’t really want to spend another $60 on a bit that only lasted me 3.5 months. She was broke out in a hackamore, so I don’t think transitioning her back would be hard, I just worry about collection and lateral work.[/QUOTE]

Buying another Happy Mouth bit (or two) may be easier, and cheaper than buying a bosal, and headstall that will fit your mare.

The horse wears OS/Draft size bridle IIRC.

[mvp]

[QUOTE=CHT;9027512]
I showed Western Dressage in a bosal last year at a recognized show (FEI judges). The issue I had was both judges wanted me to keep a more consistent contact than you really want when using the bosal in a more traditional manner.

I don’t know about American rules, but in Canada, the rules are limiting what you can show in bitless wise.[/QUOTE]

Well… maybe I shouldn’t post this opinion because I’ll assuredly be starting ill-informed disagreement.

But I think that to ask someone to ride in a bosal with consistent contact fundamentally does not understand how that piece of equipment was designed to work. Honest to God… a whole different horse training philosophy is behind it… and legitimate.

[Draftmare]

Before I switched to WD, the best bit for her was a three piece lozenge boucher, but those aren’t legal for western dressage. That one was metal and she didn’t seem to mind it.

I don’t want to sound like I am putting blame on anybody or any thing, but I sometimes wonder if her bit issues have to do with how she was broke out. She was broke out in a rope halter, and then moved to a bit, however the trainer didn’t believe in “contact” and allowed bits to hang very low in all of their horse’s mouths. She still had her wolf teeth when I got her, and I wonder if the bit was hitting her wolf teeth and now even with her wolf teeth gone she forever more associates the bit with discomfort. She has always been a bit funny about things being on her head.

Myler is another brand that we had no luck with. I seem to have the most luck with d-ring bits and the boucher. She did alright in the elevator I have in my lesson, though after riding her in it again I felt like she was a little too backed off for my tastes. Other bits I have tried are an eggbutt german silver bit, an eggbutt sweet iron bit, and an o-ring copper bit without much luck.

[Bluey]

[QUOTE=mvp;9028499]
Well… maybe I shouldn’t post this opinion because I’ll assuredly be starting ill-informed disagreement.

But I think that to ask someone to ride in a bosal with consistent contact fundamentally does not understand how that piece of equipment was designed to work. Honest to God… a whole different horse training philosophy is behind it… and legitimate.[/QUOTE]

Me too, to keep continuous contact with a bosal type hackamore is to teach a horse to eventually run thru it, not as only the signal it is supposed to be.

You can do the same with any bit, but with those bosals it is the only way they communicate properly, without steady contact but the mental work of self balancing and paying attention to the rider’s aids, all of them.

A fine line between adding “a fifth foot” by keeping contact with a bit and teaching a horse not to use that contact for that, but learn self carriage.

The concepts are so different, it is hard to want to have it both ways at the same time.
You can if you ride one way now, another later, so the horse gets the idea of the different ways of working.

OP, have you tried some clinics with different clinicians and see if you can get one to help you, maybe come up with something new that could work better for both of you?

[2_amp_1_2_Geldings]

Something relevant and valuable related to this discussion. Just this weekend in a lesson, my trainer expressed that you only have 15 good minutes you have to do any “training” in the hackamore before you risk your quality of training. This is in regards to have a hold of the hackamore. You can ride in them all day long in the hack, but the time you have to do your training is limited.

[findeight]

If no bits work? Perhaps it’s not the bit?

Not beating up on you but IMO your thinking hints of not understanding how a bosal works and it’s not on constant contact. Nor is it an end unto itself.

In the Vaquero tradition it was a step in the 4 year progression to a full/straight up bridle horse. You should do some reading on that, quite interesting in this day of quick fixes and rapid progression without understanding theory or the amount of time it really takes to develop a really broke horse.

Horse can and will bull right thru a bosal and once they do, they are pretty much done in one. And an uneducated rider can rub the skin off under a bosal doing at least as much harm, possibly scarring, then any bit. Never understood the attraction to them unless one really “gets it”.

Same thing with side pulls, if the horse really isn’t broke, they can blow them off. No substitute for proper acceptance of appropriate rein aids…which means ALL the other rider aids are also fully understood and complied with.

Its an often humbling journey requiring on open mind and excellent mentoring and instruction.