Wet stall

[Showbizz]

I have an old guy who I lock in his stall twice a day, 1 hour per time, to eat his Sr. feed. Other than that, he has access to his stall (and other stalls) and a dry lot paddock with two other horses.

Over the past 8 months he has made a mess of the floor of this stall. He urinates a ton, and ALWAYS does it in this stall. I use pelleted bedding with no mats (had a good base put in when I built the barn 5 years ago). I have no desire to install mats, especially this time of year Over time, the base is degrading and the bedding just gets muckier and muckier, no matter how much I seem to try to keep it picked.

Today I dug all the way down to the hard base. I’ve picked at it so much it was down farther than I would have liked. Now it’s a hard floor. I don’t want to start over with organic bedding, as I fear ending right back where I am. So I purchased sand (all-purpose, which is all I can find bagged and it’s so muddy I’m not getting a tractor in there!) and put a small amount (150 lbs) on top of the hard base. Was this a good or bad idea? Where should I go from here with this particular horse? I have more sand, but don’t want to get a boggy sandy mess going either.

I do lock him out of this stall, save for the 2 hours a day, when the weather is nice. But it IS winter

[UrbanHennery]

Having had a gelding (and now a mini mule) who wouldn’t pee anywhere other than his stall? There’s not much you can do but put down mats, keep it fairly clean, and use something to knock down the smell. The mats will make it immensely easier to keep it clean, and your base won’t get ruined. Also, maybe he’ll decide to pee somewhere else.

[GoodTimes]

I don’t think there’s much you can do other then properly installing mats. Don’t just throw the mats down, otherwise you’ll get a wet disgusting mess underneath heavy mats.

Do pick the stalls out right after he’s in there? Or does the urine sit there all day?

[HungarianHippo]

Mats are not that bad to move around and install. C’mon, it’s just one stall (there’s no need to leave all stalls open, is there?). To get an exact fit, they really do cut readily with a utility knife. Use a chalk line to mark your cut, and then you need to place the mat over something, whether it’s just a fencepost you laid on the ground, or you could lift it up and drape over a sawhorse. The goal being that the mat is bending away from the cut line. With a sharp utility knife/new razor, make a shallow cut along your chalk line–don’t try to saw through the whole thickness in one pass. Since the mat is curving away from the cut, it will keep spreading open with each pass of the knife until you’re through the whole thing.

[ThisTooShallPass]

Old horse. LOTS of peeing. Has a vet checked him?

[Mosey_2003]

I wouldn’t have used sand. Aglime would have been a better idea.

[Showbizz]

He is under the care of a vet

I’m not doing mats half-heartedly, and enough of the base has been degraded that I would need to get materials in to relevel the stall. That would take a tractor, as I’m not slogging through deep, wet mud with a wheelbarrow full of heavy stall flooring materials. I don’t want to get the tractor out as it will tear up the ground in this mud.

Stall is cleaned 1-3x per day. That said, all of urine is unable to be removed on the dirt floor.

I have very little sand in there right now. Enough for about 1/4" cover on the wet spot only. I have more sand, but was apprehensive about it working. My thoughts were that it dries quickly, drains, and does not break down quickly. You’re welcome to suggest other materials, which is why I started this thread

[Appsolute]

I agree with others, without mats - you are kinda in a bind. While you are right, sand won’t break down, and will “dry out” - the urine ins’t getting removed. The sand will just get saturated in concentrated urine.

I would be VERY careful that you do not feed anything on the floor now that sand has been added. You don’t want your old boy getting sand in him (and thus sand colic).

Now that you have added sand - and have no mats, I really don’t know what you could use.

I would say add even more sand to make the stall soft - but that won’t work because the sand is just going to get saturated with urine - and you do not remove the sand daily like you would bedding - its going to end up a stinking mess.

I guess you could put bedding, pelleted or wood shavings on top of the sand. This way you can at least remove the wet spots - but I think you are going to end up removing sand that you have added with each cleaning.

If it were me - and mats are a total no go - I would try my best to level the stall in a way that the urine has somewhere to drain to.

Years ago I had a similar situation. I put very fine gravel down, sloped the stall to the back (which opened to the outside), even made a little trench drain in the middle of the floor. I then bedded heavily with rice hulls - they are fluffy and soft, but not very absorbent. This allowed the urine to drain down to the floor - and out to the back of the stall.

[Showbizz]

Thanks Appsolute.

I’m fairly confident he will not ingest any of this sand. He does not get hay in his stall (he gets very little hay anyway, as he can’t chew it) and the rest of his feed is out of a hung bucket. And he gets psyllium monthly.

[sascha]

Bed the horse properly on several inches (like minimum 4") of disposable bedding and treat him with as a dignified old man who deserves special treatment rather than like an annoying inconvenience.

[Gloria]

I think for what you want, Snowbizz, you will need to dig down a few inches, and create a sort of drainage field using crushed stones, like what is used for the frost free hydrant, and use sand on top as bedding. If you use any sort of traditional bedding, you will probably inevitably remove your sand. If you have excellent drainage, your stall might not stink to high heaven; though, I have yet met one that uses this method that does not smell…

[tinah]

Are you throwing down a handful of sweet PDZ or lime on the wet spots after you pick them and before you put down fresh bedding? It really does help.

[Showbizz]

[QUOTE=sascha;7900045]
Bed the horse properly on several inches (like minimum 4") of disposable bedding and treat him with as a dignified old man who deserves special treatment rather than like an annoying inconvenience.[/QUOTE]

Except I did. For the past 8 months. And the deeper the bedding, the deeper the muck. Which is why I’m trying to re-evaluate that type of thinking. It’s not working.

Your tone is uncalled for for someone who took in an old gelding left to die with a BCS of 2 and has lovingly put 140 pounds on him.

[Appsolute]

What about one mat in the middle, where the hole is developing? That would at least stop the muck / bedding mix from happening.

[Showbizz]

[QUOTE=tinah;7900214]
Are you throwing down a handful of sweet PDZ or lime on the wet spots after you pick them and before you put down fresh bedding? It really does help.[/QUOTE]

I have not, Tinah. I always used PDZ when I used straw bedding, decades ago, and assumed it was just for odor control. I didn’t think about it helping with absorbtion! It’s worth a try!

[Showbizz]

[QUOTE=Gloria;7900047]
I think for what you want, Snowbizz, you will need to dig down a few inches, and create a sort of drainage field using crushed stones, like what is used for the frost free hydrant, and use sand on top as bedding. If you use any sort of traditional bedding, you will probably inevitably remove your sand. If you have excellent drainage, your stall might not stink to high heaven; though, I have yet met one that uses this method that does not smell…[/QUOTE]

Thanks Gloria!

Oddly enough, the stall does not stink. This summer it did a little, but once I got him on a maintenance diet (see post 13) his manure went from solid cow-pie to normal horse poop and the odor in his stall went away.

[sascha]

[QUOTE=Showbizz;7900296]
Except I did. For the past 8 months. And the deeper the bedding, the deeper the muck. Which is why I’m trying to re-evaluate that type of thinking. It’s not working.

Your tone is uncalled for for someone who took in an old gelding left to die with a BCS of 2 and has lovingly put 140 pounds on him.[/QUOTE]

Many of us have put weight on skinny horses. That doesn’t necessarily make us above reproach for other husbandry issues.

1. If the bedding is deep enough and absorbent enough, the urine will stay mainly in the bedding.

2. Nothing drains instantly, and the more gobbed up it is from years of filtering, the slower it will drain.

3. If the ground below is frozen, or near to frozen, kiss drainage goodbye.

4. If your water table is high, kiss drainage goodbye, at least during late autumn, winter, and spring. (BTDT and the only answer is more bedding, more deep, and a modified form of deep litter where you don’t dig to the base every single day, but maybe once a week, or less if you can. Add clean bedding on top to keep the moisture from rising up to meet the horse. That works best with green tree sawdust (not sawdust from dried wood, not kiln dried shavings) or pelleted bedding that is properly expanded)

But whatever. You’re the only one that’s ever had to solve a wet spot in a stall without mats. The rest of us are … wait for it … all wet

[Appsolute]

There is a product called “dry stall” that will help with orders AND absorption.

http://www.drystall.com/dry_stall.html

They sell it at most feed stores out here in CA - not sure about the rest of the country.

[Showbizz]

[QUOTE=sascha;7900312]
Many of us have put weight on skinny horses. That doesn’t necessarily make us above reproach for other husbandry issues.

1. If the bedding is deep enough and absorbent enough, the urine will stay mainly in the bedding.

2. Nothing drains instantly, and the more gobbed up it is from years of filtering, the slower it will drain.

3. If the ground below is frozen, or near to frozen, kiss drainage goodbye.

4. If your water table is high, kiss drainage goodbye, at least during late autumn, winter, and spring. (BTDT and the only answer is more bedding, more deep, and a modified form of deep litter where you don’t dig to the base every single day, but maybe once a week, or less if you can. Add clean bedding on top to keep the moisture from rising up to meet the horse. That works best with green tree sawdust (not sawdust from dried wood, not kiln dried shavings) or pelleted bedding that is properly expanded)

But whatever. You’re the only one that’s ever had to solve a wet spot in a stall without mats. The rest of us are … wait for it … all wet :D[/QUOTE]

Why the attitude? Seriously. I’m trying to fix an issue and you are making unfounded accusations.

[Equibrit]

Put peeworthy bedding somewhere else outside, so he can empty out there ?