Welcome to dog insanity! Good luck getting through the maze and I hope you get a wonderful pup in the end!
[QUOTE=cowboymom;8028983]
Welcome to dog insanity! Good luck getting through the maze and I hope you get a wonderful pup in the end![/QUOTE]
I’m still working on it but if I drive by someone at the side of the road with a box that says “free puppies” I can’t be held responsible if one or two come home with me.
This is why I have migrated to working dogs from working homes – not breed ring or agility etc., – over time. You can usually meet both parents and see them work. And in my experience, while the breeders are a wealth of good information, they do not require long purchase agreements/applications with your entire pet owning history inspections/references/specific facilities/raw diets/no kids/that the dogs anything other than companions – etc. etc. etc.
They chat with me, size me up quickly, and so far anyway, sell me a pup. I have had good luck so far going this route. I also accept there are never any guarantees no matter how much you try to control all the factors.
If a breeder has plenty of buyers, can charge a premium price, and can pick and choose where the dogs go I have no problem with that. I just don’t want to go down that road.
You may be able to find a breeder who will sell you a puppy. The no fenced yard would be a deal-breaker for me, but then my breed is bred to hunt and take down large prey, a fence is a necessity.
If I bred Newfs rather than Irish Wolfhounds, I might be a little more willing to take a chance, especially if I knew the people or they came very well recommended.
Are you sure you can’t figure out a way to fence even a smallish area off a back or side door? It is so nice, when it is midnight, sleeting out, and you have the flu, to be able to open a door and let the dog out instead of dragging yourself out there!
[QUOTE=Houndhill;8030051]
You may be able to find a breeder who will sell you a puppy. The no fenced yard would be a deal-breaker for me, but then my breed is bred to hunt and take down large prey, a fence is a necessity.
If I bred Newfs rather than Irish Wolfhounds, I might be a little more willing to take a chance, especially if I knew the people or they came very well recommended.
Are you sure you can’t figure out a way to fence even a smallish area off a back or side door? It is so nice, when it is midnight, sleeting out, and you have the flu, to be able to open a door and let the dog out instead of dragging yourself out there![/QUOTE]
It would be nice, except fences aren’t much good when you have 5-6 feet of snow.
It’s really not that much harder to open the door, clip on the tie cable, and let the dog out for a few minutes and then let him back in. I stand at the door watching if he’s out after dark – I’m too worried about critters out there.
I have fenced areas that would be safe for off-leash training, they are just not directly attached to the house.
[QUOTE=cbv;8029540]
This is why I have migrated to working dogs from working homes – not breed ring or agility etc., – over time. You can usually meet both parents and see them work. And in my experience, while the breeders are a wealth of good information, they do not require long purchase agreements/applications with your entire pet owning history inspections/references/specific facilities/raw diets/no kids/that the dogs anything other than companions – etc. etc. etc.
They chat with me, size me up quickly, and so far anyway, sell me a pup. I have had good luck so far going this route. I also accept there are never any guarantees no matter how much you try to control all the factors.
If a breeder has plenty of buyers, can charge a premium price, and can pick and choose where the dogs go I have no problem with that. I just don’t want to go down that road.[/QUOTE]
Yep I’m exploring this avenue now as well.
[QUOTE=saultgirl;8030380]
It would be nice, except fences aren’t much good when you have 5-6 feet of snow.
It’s really not that much harder to open the door, clip on the tie cable, and let the dog out for a few minutes and then let him back in. I stand at the door watching if he’s out after dark – I’m too worried about critters out there.
I have fenced areas that would be safe for off-leash training, they are just not directly attached to the house.[/QUOTE]
Oh, I hadn’t thought of that!
I bet if you explained that to the breeder, they might be willing to accept that.
Agree with Houndhill.
When talking to a potential breeder or filling out a questionnaire, make sure you let them know that you DO have fenced in areas for the dog & the rest of your setup.
Just from what I had gotten from your previous posts, it sounded like the dog would be allowed to roam free. You’ll want to clarify that is not the case.
As a breeder of working dogs, your set up wouldn’t bother me a bit 
[QUOTE=mommy peanut;8030631]
Agree with Houndhill.
When talking to a potential breeder or filling out a questionnaire, make sure you let them know that you DO have fenced in areas for the dog & the rest of your setup.
Just from what I had gotten from your previous posts, it sounded like the dog would be allowed to roam free. You’ll want to clarify that is not the case.
As a breeder of working dogs, your set up wouldn’t bother me a bit :)[/QUOTE]
Ok, I have an email out to another breeder that very specifically explains the set up and includes pictures. We’ll see how that goes!
I got an email back from the breeder who wants you to come for multiple visits and then go to your house to see what you have… I asked about that because I’m almost an 8 hour drive away. He has a different contract for people who live so far, and adds $1000 onto the price for 4 additional vet visits before the puppy leaves. That puts the purchase price up to $4000 and I’m not willing to spend it for a puppy. Crossed that one off the list 
OMG… another $1K for 4 more vet visits??? What are they doing???
I’d be outta there so fast it would make their head swim.
As mommy peanut said, it sounded initially like the dog would be roaming free. Letting the breeder know the full setup will help (at least IMO).
[QUOTE=saultgirl;8030657]
Ok, I have an email out to another breeder that very specifically explains the set up and includes pictures. We’ll see how that goes!
I got an email back from the breeder who wants you to come for multiple visits and then go to your house to see what you have… I asked about that because I’m almost an 8 hour drive away. He has a different contract for people who live so far, and adds $1000 onto the price for 4 additional vet visits before the puppy leaves. That puts the purchase price up to $4000 and I’m not willing to spend it for a puppy. Crossed that one off the list :([/QUOTE]
I would really try to speak to people in person or on the phone if at all possible. Breeders that have websites get emails all the time from people who want a puppy now and very often want to be able to transfer the $ electronically and have the puppy shipped, sight unseen. It would not surprise me if a lot of what they say in emails is deliberately difficult to discourage the puppy mill shoppers.
I know of a breeder that posts “ridiculous” things puppy buyers ask to her Facebook page (I am not condoning this behavior) - but some of the inquiries she gets are crazy. ("Can I come get “it” this weekend?)
I think that many breeders would be willing to consider different options once they know a person is a real person (not a scam), and not looking for instant gratification.
Again, if you can reach out to a regional club they can probably help you find an appropriate breeder for your interests, rather than try to wade through the internet alone.
There is some really good info for you, here. And I LOVE Newfies!!! My aunt and uncle bred them for years - they did water rescue work with them. Lots of time and effort went into those dogs…and the dogs sold only to people on a waiting list - and they were spendy, even back then (70s - 90s).
Anyway, I want to say that I always think the fenced yard requirement is just stupid…and we have a 6’ privacy fence.
I never let my dogs out alone. Not ever. Not for a minute. Dogs can dig, be stolen, taken by coyotes or birds of prey (I have Papillons)…whatever. Fences do not imply responsible ownership.
I always find that requirement frustrating.
As others have said - dog shows, breed club, etc. Get out there. Meet and greet people. Form your own opinions. Don’t participate in any of the gossip BS. Let them see you are serious. A good dog will be well worth all the work!
Good luck! I can’t wait to see updates!!
Is it unusual for a breeder to not release puppies until they reach 16 weeks?
How easy/hard is to become an “AKC Breeder of Merit”?
Is it wrong to ask for a copy of a breeder’s usual adoption policy/sales contract paperwork to review? (Like I mentioned earlier, one breeder got pretty miffed when I asked about her contract… I think she’s a flake but I don’t want to ruffle feathers unnecessarily).
Is it ok to ask about health guarantees?
What questions should I NOT ask?
I had a wonderful conversation last night with a breeder and I think she will probably consider me for a puppy, but I’m continuing my search for the time being. She says she has a waiting list but it’s not “first-come, first served”, but rather the best homes for the puppies that are available.
I didn’t ask for price except for the last breeder, when I only asked about price after numerous emails back & forth and a 25minute phone call.
So it’s not like I’m sending out a mass email saying “Do u have any puppies? How much? LOL!” or anything like that.
One other option is to deal with a breeder who does her own rehoming of puppies who don’t work out for their families. We have Chesapeake Bay Retrievers. When we want a new dog, we contact the breeder who my family has used for 12 years. If a puppy/young dog is returned to her or to one of her friends, she makes it available to us. Her dogs all have certified hips and have done all of the other testing (e.g., eyes, elbows).
My parents’ got their Chessie because the young couple who bought the puppy divorced and the older puppy was returned to the breeder. He is a lovely dog, now aged 9. My 5 year old dog came to us as a 1 year old, as her show scores were not high enough to make her a top show dog. My daughter’s dog was a small puppy who just didn’t grow enough to meet the Chessie breed show standard. Responsible breeders will work with you and find a dog that is suitable for you. I don’t know how often Newfie puppies are returned to the breeder, but you should look into it if you don’t mind an older puppy.
[QUOTE=saultgirl;8033738]
Is it unusual for a breeder to not release puppies until they reach 16 weeks? No, it’s not unusual for a conscientious breeder to not release a newf puppy until that age. That is usually the age when they can do a screening for subaortic stenosis (SAS)
Is it wrong to ask for a copy of a breeder’s usual adoption policy/sales contract paperwork to review? (Like I mentioned earlier, one breeder got pretty miffed when I asked about her contract… I think she’s a flake but I don’t want to ruffle feathers unnecessarily). I would want to see a copy, but they may want to ensure you are a serious buyer before sending you a copy
Is it ok to ask about health guarantees? Yes, definitely! Also ask for any clarification or requirements you would need to meet if there should be a health problem (e.g., specialists for cardiology problems, X-rays for hip/elbow, etc.)[/QUOTE]
AKB has a good suggestion about older puppies or dogs. Some breeders do have people who return dogs for whatever reason. One breeder I know (different breed) places dogs that have completed their show careers and retains rights to a breeding. They also place older puppies that they had kept as a potential show quality, but did not quite meet their criteria when they get a little older.
I don’t think that’s unusual depending on the breed; some breeds are not ready to go to permanent homes until they are old…and others may have reasons to be held longer. That’s certainly a reasonable question to ask…at what age do you place puppies, and why?
AKC breeder of merit program means the breeder has titled at least 4 dogs they have bred and agree to health checks based on the parent club. Is it hard? Well it would be hard to do in one litter…but over a lifetime? Probably not. But I think it has more to do with wanting people to think you are reputable than being a badge of honor for accomplishing something. I would use it as one more criteria by which to judge a breeder, not “the one.”
I don’t think it’s a bad thing to ask to see the contract, but I wouldn’t do it right away. I would ask, instead - what sort of requirements do you have of puppy homes? What sort of things do you offer owners? (E.g. what health testing, what shots/vet checks…do you offer a health guarantee?)
I would ask what kind of followup they do with puppies they place? What kind of advice/support they offer puppy homes; if any. I would ask about spay/neuter and appropriate age for your breed if you plan to have the dog altered. I would ask if you can meet any of the offspring – whether at a dog show, or if you can chat with another owner.
If you are willing to take an older dog, it’s never a bad idea to let a breeder know that, and let them know that it is ok to pass that information on to other breeders if they need to “replace” a puppy. However, I would not wait for this or expect it - of all the breeders I know, I can only think of 1-2 times where any puppies have needed replacement in the last 15 years. It happens, of course, but not frequently.
As for taking a former show dog - I would not jump into that as your first experience. I would never do this unless I knew the breeder very well and agreed with their breeding program. You would be responsible for maintaining an intact adult, but have no input on breeding decisions…not something I would want with regard to my household pet. For a co-owned show dog? Maybe. But not my pet.
Thanks again everyone.
I’m not interested in taking an older dog this time around.
[QUOTE=saultgirl;8033738]
Is it unusual for a breeder to not release puppies until they reach 16 weeks?
How easy/hard is to become an “AKC Breeder of Merit”?
Is it wrong to ask for a copy of a breeder’s usual adoption policy/sales contract paperwork to review? (Like I mentioned earlier, one breeder got pretty miffed when I asked about her contract… I think she’s a flake but I don’t want to ruffle feathers unnecessarily).
Is it ok to ask about health guarantees?
What questions should I NOT ask?
I had a wonderful conversation last night with a breeder and I think she will probably consider me for a puppy, but I’m continuing my search for the time being. She says she has a waiting list but it’s not “first-come, first served”, but rather the best homes for the puppies that are available.
I didn’t ask for price except for the last breeder, when I only asked about price after numerous emails back & forth and a 25minute phone call.
So it’s not like I’m sending out a mass email saying “Do u have any puppies? How much? LOL!” or anything like that.[/QUOTE]
Answering the AKC Breeder of Merit question (I am one, for whatever that is worth):
AKC BREEDER OF MERIT REQUIREMENTS
*
The following must be met in order to be accepted into the program:
Has a history of at least 5 years involvement with AKC events.
Earned AKC Conformation, Performance or Companion* event titles on a minimum of 4 dogs from AKC litters they bred/co-bred.
Member of an AKC club.
Certifies that applicable health screens are performed on your breeding stock as recommended by the Parent Club.
Demonstrates a commitment to ensuring 100% of the puppies produced are AKC registered.
*CGC (Canine Good Citizen or Community Canine) title does not meet the event requirements.
[QUOTE=saultgirl;8033738]
Is it unusual for a breeder to not release puppies until they reach 16 weeks?
How easy/hard is to become an “AKC Breeder of Merit”?
Is it wrong to ask for a copy of a breeder’s usual adoption policy/sales contract paperwork to review? (Like I mentioned earlier, one breeder got pretty miffed when I asked about her contract… I think she’s a flake but I don’t want to ruffle feathers unnecessarily).
Is it ok to ask about health guarantees?
What questions should I NOT ask?
I had a wonderful conversation last night with a breeder and I think she will probably consider me for a puppy, but I’m continuing my search for the time being. She says she has a waiting list but it’s not “first-come, first served”, but rather the best homes for the puppies that are available.
I didn’t ask for price except for the last breeder, when I only asked about price after numerous emails back & forth and a 25minute phone call.
So it’s not like I’m sending out a mass email saying “Do u have any puppies? How much? LOL!” or anything like that.[/QUOTE]
It is always a fine line to try to find out whether you “click” with a breeder, finding out essential information on both your parts, whether you can work together, and not being perceived as obnoxious.
I would not ask to see copies of the contract on initial contact, but I would try to find out what the breeder’s expectations are.
The age requirement has been explained as an age of testing, that makes sense to me although I don’t know specifics. Our Code of Ethics, according to our breed club, requires us not to place puppies under 10 weeks, and many keep them to at least 12 weeks. Other reasons to keep them a bit longer might be, the stud dog owner could not get there earlier to make their pick, or you might be waiting to see if a testicle might come down.
I can’t think of any question you shouldn’t ask, as long as it was courteous and respectful. Of course you should ask about health issues and health testing, I would phrase it that way rather than health “guarantees”.
Some very good breeders are more “Old School”, do listen to them and try to appreciate their experience.
[QUOTE=Houndhill;8034746]
Of course you should ask about health issues and health testing, I would phrase it that way rather than health “guarantees”.
.[/QUOTE]
Can you offer any suggestions for the wording of these questions?
