What about the Middle Class?

[Moesha]

I am really tired of hearing about how elitist the sport is and how unfair it is to the disadvantaged and inner city children.

I agree that the idea of enriching lives with horses is wonderful. But to say to do so only for the “inner city” is intolerable. What about the MAJORITY of middle class riders and their families who can barely afford the expenses of a horse with mortage, car payments, bills, etc. What about this LARGE and MUCH DESERVING group as well. Why is the middle class always overlooked and yet expected to participate in programs they cannot even afford or get help for themselves? The chronicle had an article about “horses in the hood.” A program that reaches out to inner city youth and even allowed a few to copete at WEF last year. That is great!! I applaud this and find it wonderful, but what about the multiutude of others who can’t afford to even go to a single A show yet work so hard and deserve it.

I think rather than focusing in on “youth at risk” and gearing that to one group of young people why don’t we do something so EVERYONE has a chance, after all everyone’s talent is at risk if wasted.

[Janet]

<BLOCKQUOTE class=“ip-ubbcode-quote”><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Inverness:
[B]I’d actually thought of the possibility of establishing a scholarship-type fund on the local level for kids who want to show but cannot afford it.

Any thoughts?[/B]<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Sounds reasonable. CDCTA (dressage and combined training) gives out several (dressage and CT) scholarships each year.

Applicants have to fill out an application, which includes what they intend to do with the money (and using it for additional training usually gets “higher marks” than using it for showing, but not always), and what they have done for the sport and the organization (e.g. volunteer work).

Each recipient has to write an article for the newsletter describing what they did with the money.

I don’t see why local h/j organizations couldn’t do something similar.

[This message has been edited by Janet (edited 10-16-2000).]

[Jo]

Me thinks I’ll be moving to Europe… Is there a big demand for people with marketing degrees over there?

[Janet]

I think there is a big difference between making “riding” affordable, and making “showing on the A circuit” affordable.

There are plenty of way to ride, learn and compete without unlimited funds.

But if you decide you want to compete against those with unlimited funds, it is never going to be affordable.

I have seen it happen time and again with car and motorcycle racing. Some organization comes up with a new structure to make a “level playing field”, so talent (not cubic $) will count. Money always comes into it - whether it is hiring the best engine builders and suspension tuners who can get more out of the machine within the rules, or buying 100s of pistons, to find the one with the best manufacturing tolerances, or simply having a spare everything (engines, frames, etc,).

The same applies to horses.

If you want to compete in the same league with the “rich people”, money will always be an issue.

But-
There are plenty of classes, shows, circuits, organizations where the “money no object” people are not particularly interested. You can have a lot of fun, learn a lot, and - if you are really good - get noticed by the people who play in the “big money game”.

[Emma1]

When I was a kid, I wouldn’t have even comprehended the A-Circuit world. I discovered horses in a back yard barn. I worked my butt off to show at local pony club and 4-H shows. I thought the kids that had their own rusty trailers were the rich ones.

Now after finishing graduate school and getting myself a career, I can afford luxeries like boarding at a facility with an indoor ring, a trainer and lots of local showing on the weekends. In my mind I have made it to the big time. It is all relative.

I agree with Heidi’s post. The A circuit is expensive because the people who support it want it to be exclusive. They would rather pay twice as much for the same services they could get elsewhere so they are assured that they are only rubbing shoulders with the “right kind of people.” It wouldn’t be much fun to sit around and talk about how many “Mexicans” you should take to the show if a neuveux-riche like me was looking at you in horror, lets face it. You dont have to go to WEF and travel the A circuit to enjoy hunter-jumper riding and have worthy competition goals.

[smedley]

I was once told by a well-known “A” Circuit trainer:

“Don’t kid yourself. This is all about beautiful, thin, wealthy women on gorgeous horses.”

I flunk 4 out of 4.

[Magnolia]

Riding is expensive. Horses are expensive. Tack is expensive. Showing is expensive. That’s Life.
Lowering show fees won’t solve the problem - what about the farrier? the vet? the tack shop? the hauling?
And trainers, they have to eat too.
If you are from the middle class and can afford a horse, you’re lucky. Don’t pout about not being able to go to WEF.
As for talent, how about an IHSA type program for highschoolers and amateurs. You needn’t own a horse and talent really shines through! Local schools could gang up with college teams or with area lesson barns and have these competitions.
Unfortunately, money is a part of doing hunters - we could limit shows etc.etc., but that really doesn’t help the “middle class” - it helps the “not quite so wealthy, but still doing well.”
I wish we could all do what we want, but unfortunatly, we are limited. Short of redistibuting the wealth, there will always be the haves and have nots, and the big in between, happy to have, but wanting more.

[Inverness]

<BLOCKQUOTE class=“ip-ubbcode-quote”><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Goodmudder:
[B]I think the goal of helping kids/people to do more showing, or whatever, is admirable, But in terms of MAJOR efforts, my priorities are quite different. I would prefer to back causes that (a) save lives, and (b) provide better education, etc. Inner City kids need this far more than they need horses.

[This message has been edited by Goodmudder (edited 10-16-2000).][/B]<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

I think we may be getting a little off track here. Moesha, correct me if I misunderstand you, but I think that what you are suggesting is that a good many kids in the “middle class” who would love to ride are from families who simply cannot afford to finance this desire.

You then suggest that while programs to introduce disadvantaged and “inner-city” kids to horses are good, you wish that similar programs were available to ALL kids who want to learn to ride and whose financial condition prohibits it.

If this accurately describes your meaning, I agree. I think it is worth discussing how we might make this sport accessible to greater numbers of kids who cannot currently afford to participate - whether inner-city, outer-suburban, or somewhere down rural route 22.

Clearly, no one is suggesting that this isn’t an expensive sport. Nor are we suggesting that the wealthier segment of the industry is lacking in the generosity department. I simply think it is worth discussing how we might provide more riding opportunities to more kids who have the heart and desire to give it a go.

[DMK]

<BLOCKQUOTE class=“ip-ubbcode-quote”><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Weatherford:
Another example is stabling - a tent for a week’s arab show is $45 per stall (for the week). The SAME tent the following week for the hunter jumper show was $145. This does not make sense to me.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Oh this is so true! Years ago, at a fall show at Wellington, we H/J people shared the grounds with a AQHA show… As a result, we got to mingle with the riff raff (some of them being my friends)… We ALSO got to compare notes… imagine our surprise when we learned that the H/J people paid about $50 more that weekend for stabling (no, the AQHA people were NOT exiled to tents… we all shared the same permanent facilities, and neither show had access to the GP ring).

I’m hard pressed to believe that the h/j base expenses were significantly higher so as to warrant the roughly $10,000 in extra income that particular price gouging resulted in… and we won’t even go into the difference in class fees…

Hmmmm… how do prices traditionally fall? Free market competition, Adam Smith economics… Mileage rule?

[SLW]

“What about the MAJORITY of middle class riders and their families who can barely afford the expenses of a horse with mortage, car payments, bills, etc. What about this LARGE and MUCH DESERVING group as well. Why is the middle class always overlooked and yet expected to participate in programs they cannot even afford or get help for themselves?”

Moshea- HERE, HERE!!! Were it not for kindness and generousity of a Dr. family in my old hometown, the joy of horsemanship would have never been more than an occational dude ranch ride for me on family vacations. As the third of four children, I grew up happily middle class- we had everything we needed and half of what we, the kids, wanted. My family made “The Waltons” look like NYC stock exchange gurus with a house at the Hamptons and Vale.

I KNOW what you are speaking about!! I have had MANY parents in my rural area ask me if I would teach lessons just so their kid could have a safe start. (I did back east but have not since arriving in Kansas) I can offer that our lawsuit happy society is part of the problem. This past March I asked for a quote, from the insurance company which covers my horses, to cover me for teaching lessons at my home. I told them I would teach 2-4 lessons a week with only two children in each class on my broke to death QTR horses. No jumping, no barrel racing etc. The quote was $300-$500 for the year. I would loose my $1,000,000 protection with the Kansas Horse Council that I presently have as an “amatuer” if I became a business. I would have to get a conditional use permit from my county commisioners at “X” amount. I decided that I would wait.

I try very hard to share my horses when ever we are in public. I know what that child is thinking when they keep gazing at our horses. We stop and let them rub the horses and feed them a treat if time permits. I do stop short at letting them ride, just too risky in todays climate.

I am thankful my parents didn’t have this worry when they leased the Dr.'s pony for me. Times have changed.

[Duffy]

I believe I like you, smedley!

[Inverness]

Perhaps, Goodmudder. But why just acquiesce to a situation if it is unacceptable, ala campaign finance reform (but I digress)?

It seems to me that in the long run, greater affordability will lead to overall growth in the industry.

How does the system in Europe differ, 3eme?

I like that idea, Janet!

[This message has been edited by Inverness (edited 10-16-2000).]

[jumper]

Oh, a topic near and dear to my heart. I absolutely agree that making our sport accessible to all income levels would increase its popularity with mainstream society. How can we complain that more people aren’t interested in equestrian sports when it is so removed from the populus?? I know it’s been said before, but plenty of people can afford to play football, baseball or soccer, so they support those sports on the professional level (in turn, those sports thrive on spectator revenue/sponsorships). I think a scholarship program is a great idea! I think it’s dangerous to take the attitude of “that’s life and that’s our sport.” How will things ever change? We definitely need some reform. Look at Europe…our sport is extremely popular because success is equally attainable for everyone (given, there is a talent factor involved). It’s not fair that those with talent enough to compete and win on a national level can’t do so because of finances. If we have the best interest of the sport at heart, this wouldn’t be the case…IMHO.

[Magnolia]

Well said Janet!
Now, how do we make riding more affordable for people like me, who plum can’t afford a horse?
I like Equishare - you pay a monthly fee and can ride X times a week - no vet bill or tack worries, but you might not have the perfect horse.
I’m really lucky and get a great deal on a lease - I just pay a fraction of shoeing and a fraction of board. I probably would not be able to do this if I had less experience though…
So, without considering showing, how do we make it more doable for the person that can not afford board etc. Any ideas?

[Snowbird]

Well Heidi, now you’ve asked the right question!

<BLOCKQUOTE class=“ip-ubbcode-quote”><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Why is an A show the ultimate goal - is the food better, is the competition better, are the shows better organized, is the prize money greater, is the footing better in the jumper ring, are the people who frequent and compete at these shows smarter, nicer, more charming?<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Actually here in New Jersey the same show for example “Garden State” is run by the same people over the same fences, same course designer and same footing at least twice a month as a C-Show. So what is the difference? it’s simply money offered!

In fact there has been a spin doctor job has been done that makes a AA Show better, more prestigious when in reality what supports the show are the same unrecognized classes and divisions that support the C Show series. The reason the prices are high is because those rated divisions which do get all of the $18,001 dollars that must be awarded to hunters do not cover their costs for lack of entries.

<BLOCKQUOTE class=“ip-ubbcode-quote”><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>In my Marxist view of the world (which is a really amusing self descriptor given that many who know me would call me the very embodiment of capitalist evil), the people
who run the A shows, the governing bodies which oversee the A circuit nationally, and
the people who have the unlimited funds to show at A shows year round (on their recently imported warmblood mounts) DO NOT want it to be affordable for the middle class.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Right again, that’s why the worst horse in a class of 3 in an AA Division gets the same points as the blue ribbon winner in a class of over 26 at a C Show. They are the ones who must qualify for the other prestigious indoor shows. And from my conservative Republican and capitalistic roots I agree, it is called “dishonest”. Why because it is “restraint of trade” to manipulate the market in such a way that only those who can or even want to go to a five day show every week should be rewarded for their lack of employment and education (if juniors). In my opinion in any other industry this would be considered “rackateerism”.

<BLOCKQUOTE class=“ip-ubbcode-quote”><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>The A circuit is a microsmic slice of the world around us - you know the adult
world of exclusive country clubs and adolescent cliques. It’s about exclusion.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Right again! They do not want to share their space with people who will make them feel less important because they don’t work for a living or contribute to the benefit of society by virtue of their lack of employment.

The sad part is that they have convinced people that just because those shows do cost more they are better. They have perpetrated the hoax.

I think it is a pity that someone needs to buy a $300,000 horse just to make them feel as if they are the better rider. But, please don’t blame show managers in general we are not all guilty.

Thirteen years ago this was all different. Thirteen years ago you paid half as much for twice the prize money and all the shows had so many entries that we were amazed with the volume and quality in the AHSA Rated Divisions. Today we can combine Junior Hunters and Amateur-Owner hunters for lack of entries. We can combine Green Hunters and Regular Hunters for lack of entries. The the biggest dispute in the Pony Division was splitting the sections, now it’s combining them.

So, if things are so much better! Why is this so?

So please all of you just think about what has changed in 13 years, what has created this monster of AA five day long extravaganzas?

[Moesha]

I am really tired of hearing about how elitist the sport is and how unfair it is to the disadvantaged and inner city children.

I agree that the idea of enriching lives with horses is wonderful. But to say to do so only for the “inner city” is intolerable. What about the MAJORITY of middle class riders and their families who can barely afford the expenses of a horse with mortage, car payments, bills, etc. What about this LARGE and MUCH DESERVING group as well. Why is the middle class always overlooked and yet expected to participate in programs they cannot even afford or get help for themselves? The chronicle had an article about “horses in the hood.” A program that reaches out to inner city youth and even allowed a few to copete at WEF last year. That is great!! I applaud this and find it wonderful, but what about the multiutude of others who can’t afford to even go to a single A show yet work so hard and deserve it.

I think rather than focusing in on “youth at risk” and gearing that to one group of young people why don’t we do something so EVERYONE has a chance, after all everyone’s talent is at risk if wasted.

[Cactuskate]

I believe we are touching on acceptance here. I found away in my meager existence of modest income, modest lifestyle.

I know my trade off is living in a very remote area. I could no more afford a horse if I lived in So California. So I live in Arizona, enjoy the heck out of my horse, attend as many clinics as I can, do a little horse showing on the local level and try to absorb as much knowledge as possible along the way.

I have stopped “beating myself up” over what it would be like to have the big barn experience. It is not going to happen in this lifetime as I see it. And you know what? It is no one elses fault or responsibility to make it any different.

[Magnolia]

“but plenty of people can afford to play football, baseball or soccer, so they support those sports on the professional level”

If I play soccer, I need a pair of shoes. If I ride, I need a horse. The “equiptment” for riding is what is what makes it so unaffordable. My soccer shoes wear out? I buy a new pair for $100.00 - my horse goes lame, it is $100.00 for the xrays alone!

Also, shoes for soccer are probably between $50 ~ $200.00, and it doesn’t make much difference what you spend. If I can’t afford a league, I play at school, the public subsidizes the fields etc. etc.

For a rider, I need a horse - $1000.00 ~ $300,000 (price makes a difference here!), I have to board it at a private stable, which isn’t subsidized.

It’s just a sport of a different nature than others, it relies on a very expensive animal (whether $500.00 or $500,000, you have to feed it and shoe it). If you could take the horse out of the equation, it would be affordable, but then it wouldn’t be riding.

[ProzacPuppy]

I think you are getting to the reason why the availability of the horses and riding are fast disappearing. At least on both coasts, the cost of having enough space for horses has become prohibitive. Also, farm land to supply local hay is in shorter supply as well. To keep horses and then offer them for riding at low prices does not begin to pay for itself.
I would like to see showing become a little more affordable. I don’t mind the show fees particularly, its all the little “extras”- the trainer’s travel and expenses, the groom’s travel and expenses, the decorations for the tackroom (esp if the “theme” must be changed with he seasons), the tips for all the sundry people who stand by to assist. How about the $5 bottles of water and $2 cans of Coke at some show facilities? And I think I just paid double the going rate for TS breeches at the last show (emergency pants purchases were not budgeted for). I think in America we give our tacit approval of the current show situation by continuing to accept it as a given. (I realize there are no choices but to stop showing the A’s or all move to Europe at once but maybe if we all bitched loudly enough…Wishful thinking I guess.)
I don’t think horse shows are meant to be open to everyone- I don’t think alot of the people at the A’s would appreciate the influx of the inner city elements into their world. And even within the show world it is not an equal playing field. I was told this weekend that “you can’t go to the bigger shows (Indio, WEF) without a horse that costs the same as a house…”

[3eme]

Why not look at it from the other way around? Why not encourage shows to lower prize money offered, which will in turn lower entry fees, which will in turn level the playing field and allow a broader spectrum of demographics to participate. A sport that needs to give charity to the “middle class” is, to me, a sport that needs to re-look at it’s basic structure.