What are new dressage saddles going for these days?

[CanteringCarrot]

@Lusoluv

I only buy used saddles these days. I’ve been riding long enough (and saddle fit trained) to know what fits my horses. Plus IMO, older saddles are better made from 10+ years ago than they are today. It’s not difficult to find a quality European saddle that’s been lightly used, and well maintained for ~$2k. Caveat: you need to be patient, know where to look and have a functional knowledge of saddle fit.

The problem with that was I spent a lot of money shipping saddles around. I have good knowledge of saddle fit, and of a lot of the brands and models out there. I also worked with a fitter virtually, and some saddles were close, but still NQR for either me or the horse. I am particular with dressage saddles though. So if I don’t like it, the I’m not keeping it even if the horse likes it.

Horse wasn’t that difficult of a fit but saddles that were allegedly designed for his shape were just not right in some ways. Even though he’s bum high at 3, I think both myself and one of the fitters did not initially realize just how straight of a tree he needs even though his top line isn’t exactly flat.

I also received one from a well known consignment shop that had a twisted tree. Fortunately I could return it, but I was still out shipping.

I’d love to buy used, and have successfully before, but this time around, it was a cluster for whatever reason!

[outerbanks77]

@Lusoluv

I only buy used saddles these days. I’ve been riding long enough (and saddle fit trained) to know what fits my horses. Plus IMO, older saddles are better made from 10+ years ago than they are today. It’s not difficult to find a quality European saddle that’s been lightly used, and well maintained for ~$2k. Caveat: you need to be patient, know where to look and have a functional knowledge of saddle fit.

My problem is with my loooong femurs. My thighs aren’t really that thick, but the saddle makers seem to think that people with loooong femurs also have stick legs, or just want a long flap and to ride with super long stirrups. If I happen across a BC Vinici with the same flap/block customizations as my current saddle, I’ll snap it up!

I’m waiting for a customized demo Lovatt & Rickett’s right now. The off the shelf demos seemed like high quality leather, and well-made. Plus Adrienne Hendricks is just down the road from my barn so we have hands-on fitting and she can basically do repairs and build a saddle from the ground up. My custom 2015 BC Vinici still has a lot of life left in it, but it’s one of those magical saddles that fits many horses, so I kind of want to preserve it for my next young horse. The L&R’s run $5500, plus a bit if I add on some bling, which is not bad compared to many of the other brands out there.

I was so lucky with my jumping saddle. I found a brand new Pessoa monoflap on clearance for $1300, and since they have a changeable gullet, I figured it would work temporarily while I searched for the perfect higher-end saddle. However, the Pessoa is really well balanced, comfortable, and my horse is very happy in it. No notes from chiro or bodyworker about and saddle-fit related soreness. I use it with a Winderen pad, FWIW. I did trial a used Voltaire that had one of the panels attached crooked!

[Nutmeg11]

I got a new Duett last year for a hair under $3k–it’s the only kind that ended up fitting my keg-on-legs Friesian mare, and so far we’re both happy with it!

[GraceLikeRain]

@CanteringCarrot

I also received one from a well known consignment shop that had a twisted tree. Fortunately I could return it, but I was still out shipping.

I have two good friends that are very well regarded fitters. They say that a huge huge portion of used saddles have twisted trees and they have to be pretty horrible for the average seller to notice.

I’m big on used saddles but outside of a consigner that takes returns, it can get pretty dicey if a saddle arrives twisted and the seller didn’t notice or care.

[sheltona01]

I can see where your fitter friends are coming from. Personally, I’m not too keen on being involved in that market anymore. So many of the saddles were broken or damaged, and I just didn’t want my name associated with that.

In addition, I have new saddles available, ranging from $600 to $7,000 so I feel like I have quality products for every budget. If you’re not looking for a big brand label, you can find some really wonderful saddles starting at $3,000 pretty customizable and up.

[Push_hands_forward]

I had a custom made custom Wolfgang solo. In 2014, so that’s 10 years ago. I love it and it fit my horse and me beautifully. I think I paid 4800 then. I have a new young horse. He’s going to need a saddle in the next year or two, and I fully expect to play upwards of 6000 for a new one. That just seems about a reasonable inflation rate.

[netg]

@Push_hands_forward

I had a custom made custom Wolfgang solo. In 2014, so that’s 10 years ago. I love it and it fit my horse and me beautifully. I think I paid 4800 then. I have a new young horse. He’s going to need a saddle in the next year or two, and I fully expect to play upwards of 6000 for a new one. That just seems about a reasonable inflation rate.

I was paying around 3k back then, not close to 5k. And I had customizations! I traded in one of my saddles which was still in great shape, and ended up spending about $4k for my most recent saddle if I remember right, but I think $6k is now on the low end from Custom.

[sheltona01]

That must have been a really upgraded saddle! When I started with custom in 2018, the base price was around $4k.

[Push_hands_forward]

Woopsie. You are right. I went back and looked. It was 3800 not 4800. My mistake. So certainly brand new saddles in the $6000 to $7000 range are probably going to be what it is.

[poltroon]

@GraceLikeRain

I have two good friends that are very well regarded fitters. They say that a huge huge portion of used saddles have twisted trees and they have to be pretty horrible for the average seller to notice.

Why would that be the case? What are we doing to the huge portion of saddles that we are damaging the trees in this way?

[Pezanos]

Perhaps those used saddles were terrible quality to begin with.

[CanteringCarrot]

@poltroon

@GraceLikeRain

I have two good friends that are very well regarded fitters. They say that a huge huge portion of used saddles have twisted trees and they have to be pretty horrible for the average seller to notice.

Why would that be the case? What are we doing to the huge portion of saddles that we are damaging the trees in this way?

Mounting and dismounting, mainly.

It wouldn’t necessarily be soo hard to damage/twist even a good quality saddle over the years if you mount in a certain way.

[MapleFarm]

Possibly an issue with data - maybe many used saddles are “used” (and being sold) because the horses aren’t happy in them (due to damaged trees). Rather than 75% of all used saddles having damaged trees, it’s actually that bad trees are what caused them to be sold so the used market is saturated with them? Just a thought.

However I’ve sold 4 saddles due to my horses growing (from medium to x wide for one in 3 years) and to my knowledge they didn’t have tree issues.

[SolarFlare]

@MapleFarm

Possibly an issue with data - maybe many used saddles are “used” (and being sold) because the horses aren’t happy in them (due to damaged trees). Rather than 75% of all used saddles having damaged trees, it’s actually that bad trees are what caused them to be sold so the used market is saturated with them? Just a thought.

Also how large is their sample size and how are they determining that the tree is twisted? Are they only looking at used saddles in their immediate area? Are they doing only a visual inspection?

We have a fitter or two around me who claims that most trees are twisted based on a visual inspection, and wants to sell the poor rider a new saddle. I personally know of one who took hers to a different saddler, had it taken apart and the tree completely removed and inspected, and it was fine. Turns out the stitching on her saddle was uneven and the tree was not at all twisted. One tack store refuses to refer clients to one of the fitters because they had so many people coming in talking about their twisted trees that were fine.

[GraceLikeRain]

Perhaps but many of these saddles were custom and or very expensive off the rack.

How you mount. Chronic unevenness. Riders who overweight one stirrup. The list goes on.

The same motion repeated unevenly hundreds if not thousands of times will eventually distort a tree.

A good fitter should be able to tell a twisted tree from uneven stitching. Both of these fitters will often off to drop panels and fully inspect anything where there’s a question before reflocking. They’ve shared pictures online and it’s clear even to the amateur eye that the trees are no longer pin straight.

COTH tends to be on average a more educated group and more inclined to use a fitter. Plenty of people still don’t believe in regular fittings or may buy a saddle from a fitter and then only call them once things are going horribly at which point they’ve been distorting their saddle and unevenly squishing panels riding around with a 70/30 weight distribution in their stirrups or other major issues.

[Pehsness]

So speaking of saddle fitting - what is the norm?

I’ve never actually had a saddle fitted. I’ve tried a couple of times but ran in to road blocks. One saddlery would only do it if you bought the saddle from them, another took my money but didn’t ship the product I ordered despite many emails back and forth (it was just saddle soap, but it showed their true colour’s as a company).

And any coaches I’ve had over the years were not the kind of people to get regular fittings.

So what does a lower level schooling show type rider do? Annual? Only if there’s a problem?

I know the basics so I know I’m not riding in a disaster. But the basics is where my knowledge stops.

[outerbanks77]

It somewhat depends on how much the horse is changing. Annual seems to work for me, but my saddle has serge panels, which seem to mold to the horse’s back more readily than leather, so it kind of automatically makes small adjustments. If you get a saddle fully stripped and re-flocked (or brand new saddle) you may need to get the fit tweaked after a month or two because the flocking will settle. Others find a six-month cycle to be better. When I cliniced with Leslie Morse she talked about when they were competing internationally, and kept 3 different sized saddles for Kingston, because his shape would change dramatically from week to week with all the travel.

Adrienne has patiently worked with me on various used saddles I’ve brought her over the years and has never found a twisted tree. I’ve escaped the issue, but lately she has been opening up used saddles and finding lots of cracked tree heads, stripped out screws, etc. much of which she attributes to saddles being adjusted with a press. I definitely pass on any used saddle that is described as having been adjusted, or it says “marked medium but fits like a wide” which could be indicative of the tree being manipulated. One exception being a near-new Albion Adjusta that I bought from the original owner. Even that would give me pause knowing what I know now, but Adrienne opened that saddle up to widen the channel and it was in tip top shape.

[GraceLikeRain]

@Pehsness

So what does a lower level schooling show type rider do? Annual? Only if there’s a problem?

My belief is that by the time there’s an obvious problem I’ve failed to be their advocate.

On all of my horses, regardless of level or showing, I work with an independent fitter for the initial fitting. I do a recheck every 6 months and then full reflocking every 3-5 years. I’ll move an appointment up to every 3 months with a horse that’s developing quickly, been out of work, had an injury, etc since all of that can dramatically impact fit.

[blue_heron]

My growing young horse who can be a drama queen is getting fitted every 3-4 months. Otherwise, they go about 6 months between fittings.

[poltroon]

@GraceLikeRain

Perhaps but many of these saddles were custom and or very expensive off the rack.

How you mount. Chronic unevenness. Riders who overweight one stirrup. The list goes on.

The same motion repeated unevenly hundreds if not thousands of times will eventually distort a tree.

I’m an engineer. It’s completely false that the same motion repeated unevenly will distort the tree - or any item - if the tree is fit for purpose and used within its design specifications.

Let’s talk about how often a car or a chair or an airplane is “unevenly loaded.” Or a horse trailer. Always, right? You choose your materials and the thickness to handle the load in a way that either they don’t deform or that the deformation is intentional and completely elastic.

Now, if you want to claim that custom trees are often not engineered to this level of load, I can see that that’s plausible. If someone is just placing materials “artistically” to create a shape and not thoughtful about the design strength, maybe there are saddlers like that. I don’t know.

But the idea that using the stirrup to mount even a thousand times is twisting and damaging a tree, that’s a defective product from the very beginning and not fit for purpose.

If you’re telling me that a rider can do it say with a 60/40 unbalance in their riding, that’s even more absurd. A saddle like that was never safe in the first place and I don’t want it new either.