There’s got to be some good in there somewhere, right?
Something worthwhile to take away.
Well, anything that has owners handling their horses more is a good thing.
I drank the kool aid in college!!! Honestly, it works as a tool, but not something I do everyday. I had a horse in college that refused to load on anything but a large slant load or an airplane. The mare was born in Hawaii then moved to Texas then NC then VA. She absolutely hated the two horse vans we had a Sweet Briar College and the head instructors 4 horse straight load bumper pull. We did a clinic with a parelli instructor and then we used the parelli method of loading her. It worked. I used it on my homebred TB I had, my polo reject and now my current OTTB. It serves as a way to bring them back down a level and connect for me. I can do a lot with my current guy using the stupid rope halter and carrot stick. He now self loads and unloads off the the trailer and I require zero help. That’s a huge thing for me if there is an emergency or a horse show. It also helps when he is a little on edge with the weather too. About 5-10 sometimes 15 mins of groundwork and I never have to lunge. It’s almost like it’s a calming thing for him. I can also leave him to stand in the ring while I move fences and he will either follow or stay still depending on what I tell him. Now with all that being said…the rest of it a too little quack to go up the levels. I am a level 1 and known the level 2 stuff and have zero desire to do much more than I’m doing.
I was about to say the same thing as Dotneko. If it gets people interacting with their horses and thinking about how their minds work that’s good.
I’m always wary of very commercialized programs that are super expensive though.
I think the basics are sound. Rope halters are a good tool for the right situation. Ground work and round pen work have value. It’s just when it’s elevated to some sort of Majick that it gets ugly, and for that reason I’d be inclined to send you to other practitioners, if this is a skill you want to learn.
Getting inside the horses head and learning to see it the way the horse does.
I learned that way before PP.
Parelli is a bit like Martha Stewart in some ways. Is Martha that much better of a baker, cook, etc. than the rest of the world? No. She just figured out a way to market the kinds of things that everybody’s grandmother knew how to do from the age of 10.
Yeah, but nobody’s going to get hurt if they bake that cake too long.
There is not a single good thing about the Pepperoni methods. They can be dangerous to those who don’t know anything about correct horse training. But, anyone who does know a thing or 2 about training has no need for anything they sell.
So, of course, the methods are marketed to specifically people who don’t know anything about correct horse training.
The Pepperonis (or did they get divorced?) are insidious, vapid snake oil salespeople.
Sorry - perhaps I should have included why I’m asking the question.
Let me go back & edit my original post.
Oh, wait… that doesn’t work any more, does it? eyeroll
I have met assorted folks over the years who have embraced to one degree or another either Parelli or one of the other NH trainers. And I recently bought a young Arab who’s been trained in the 7 games. I must say that it’s really nice to have a horse who readily backs up or moves over when I tell him to (vs my other guys, who tend toward the “la-la-la-I’m-not-listening” approach - and I accept responsibility for allowing them to do that… but I digress).
But there are some things that just seem wrong to me. E.g., shaking a rope to make him back up, which throws his head up and hollows his back. Hitting or shoving him with a rigid stick to get him to move over (mind you, I am not whip-averse, but the rigid stick seems a bit over the top).
And Lord knows there are a ton of anti-Parelli-ites here on COTH.
On the other hand, I feel like there must be some worthwhile nuggets in there. Hence my question.
I’m not looking to become Parelli-certified; just wondering what good parts others have found. Like the “spending more time with your horse” part.
And a sort-of spinoff: if not Parelli, are there NH alternatives that are more acceptable to those who are vehemently anti-Parelli?
I must say that it’s really nice to have a horse who readily backs up or moves over when I tell him to (vs my other guys, who tend toward the “la-la-la-I’m-not-listening” approach -
Any properly trained horse will back up or move over readily when asked to do so in the way it understands.
If you have challenges with these kinds of issues, my recommendation would be that you seek a trainer in your area to evaluate you and your horses.
No packaged and sold book/video/carrot stick is worth more than fairy dust or beanstalk beans if the person trying to apply the methods doesn’t understand how to use them.
The only way this stuff can be learned is by having someone observe and correct what you are doing.
You may think you’re doing X correctly, but if you’re really doing Y, you’ll never know until someone sees you do Y and tells you that it isn’t X.
There’s no shame in needing professional help. I’ve been riding for over 30 years and still take weekly lessons. If I’m having an issue with a horse, I’ll have a pro get on and show me how to get it.
Horses require a lifetime of patience and willingness to learn. Actually, one lifetime isn’t enough!
are there NH alternatives that are more acceptable to those who are vehemently anti-Parelli?
There’s nothing magical about NH of any kind (though if you are set on NH, Buck Brannaman is the only one I’d have any interest in).
Any good equestrian professional of any discipline can teach you to properly train your horse. The most important thing is finding the right professional and having eyes on the ground to tell you when you’re doing something right or when you need to change what you’re doing.
If you don’t have someone in your area you’re comfortable with, I’d recommend going to some local horse shows of what ever discipline interests you. Don’t watch the show ring, watch the warm up rings. Walk through the stables. Look for a trainer whose horses are healthy, happy, and mellow (but not too mellow;) ). Someone who is good at what they do, but is kind when they are assertive. No yellers, hitters, or people using gadgets.
Good luck with your search!
At the core of it all I think is establishinging a leadership role and accepted behavioral responses that translate well to any regular handling. I think PP did so well in that they broke everything down to such a basic level that you don’t need to be able to read a horse well to implement it. If A then B. Other programs require some mediocum of horse sense.
I like Warwick Schiller. I have admittedly slacked on ground training one of my horses that needs more than normal daily handling to keep his attitude in check and now I have a few more tools to encourage focus and compliance
I agree that anything that makes you more aware of horse behaviour, makes you more patient and watch the process of change is Good Horsemanship. Ray Hunt, Tom Dorrance and those who branched off /followed on from them have the same basic idea. The problem arises when you start to commercialise this and not actuallly teach it. IMO- not learnable at a w/e clinic or from a DVD, altho you may get an idea of what is going on from a really skilled clinician giving a running commentary while he works with a horse.
That being said, I went to a clinic with Ray Hunt shortly before he died, and wasn’t impressed- he would have the participants doing the same thing over and over ‘until they figured out what they were doing wrong’. It looked chaotic to me, and I had been working with one of his students for a couple of years off and on so had a basic understanding of the principles.
PP is capitolising on inexperienced horseowners who do not know how or cannot access good trainers with “horse sense”. Many good horsemen/women can’t really explain what they are doing, it is almost instinctual for them
I like the basic groundwork. I do those exercises with both of my horses and they seem to enjoy the change of pace on occassion. It is not something I do frequently, but once in a while to change things up a bit. The ground work is also what I like the least as it is what I see Parelli people drilling with their horses until they are sour and angry. Too bad really because they are fun exercises once in a while.
Well, to the OP, I was forced to learn some Parelli from a Parelli trained (4 star) cowboy who since left Parelli (he took dressage lessons with a very notable dressage trainer, too). Of note, my horse was considered too dangerous to ride by local trainers. Long story there, but they were right. He was explosive. As a dressage rider, I wanted nothing to do with Parelli until the problem landed square in my lap.
Marketing aside, the basic methods are sound and establish a set of communication rules that both you and your horse understand. Wiggling the rope shouldn’t make your horse raise his head or hollow unless you’re doing it too hard or he’s resisting you. Like everything else with horses, you start small and if they’re ignoring, you escalate the aid. Same thing with the stiff “crop” with rope. It’s no different than a crop, a dressage whip or a longe whip. You don’t smack the horse or even make contact, the point is to direct the horse. Like the dressage whip is a tool to direct, this thing is also a tool to direct.
Positives: I have a very specific language and set of basic tools to deploy if/when my horse freaks out at shows or other situations. Yes, I can use a seriously wiggling rope rather than have my horse walk over me (or beat him back) when he panics in a wash rack. i can “send him” on a trailer and he goes where I point for him to go. I have a much better understanding of horse behavior than I ever learned from 20 years of dressage/jumping/event training. My horse learned how to “learn” - meaning that he approaches issues as a puzzle he can solve if he works at it rather than simply reacting and trying to flee. Lastly, he has learned to look to me when in doubt rather than freaking out and feeling that he has to save himself. The foundation for this was groundwork and teaching problem-solving.
I used to do clinics (when I lived out West) with a high level Parelli-trained Dressage S-judge and GP-level rider. Like most, she left Parelli. She incorporated alot of the Parelli stuff into her dressage career and I think that gave her a unique perspective of riding and training.
I’m not a huge fan of the Parellis but I can appreciate the system and I’ve benefited alot as a horsewoman from learning it. Indeed, my well-bred, professionally started horse would likely be in a dog food can if not for the cowboy.
He’s just a cowboy who has copyrighted a bunch of terms. There are dozens of horsemen who can brig along a colt perfectly well with less showmanship and good old down home horsemanship, for less money. Can’t stand to hear someone say “I will go out and Parelli my horse”. Just give it good groundwork, for goodness sake. Seen too much of these people flapping around with no proper guidance and the poor horse zooming around in a rope halter, long line and carrot stick…aaagh. He’s just not that special, tho he is unique I suppose.
Nuggets? Probably nothing others could not help with. He had good attendance at this year’s Mane Event - but all the same kind of people.
[quote = “J-Lu”] My horse learned how to “learn” - meaning that he approaches issues as a puzzle he can solve if he works at it rather than simply reacting and trying to flee.
[/quote]
I have a friend who did quite a lot of clicker training with her hugely spooky horse. She later stopped the clicker work and moved to a NH instructor, and the above is one of the greatest changes in her horse, she feels.
I am not a cool aide drinker myself, and agree with much of what is already written above. I have some friends who have drank some of the cool aide, sometimes, and like it. I think the P system appeals to people these days because of the holes found in many coaches and their teaching systems, which leaves OUT much of how to converse with the horse, and focuses instead ONLY on position, and the human side of the equation. Which results in riders who can not really interact with a horse, or understands how he thinks, and how he learns. That rider then goes out into the world, and buys a horse of their own. And SURPRISE!!! There is a whole other bunch of stuff that they don’t have a clue how to do. And someone yelling at them to “sit up, kick, and pull the left rein” doesn’t help to solve the problem. Because the horse is giving them the third finger salute, and either leaving the scene, or not participating. So, they start to look around, investigate what is missing in their education.
I think that what is effective and attractive to the training is the “stepwise” acquisition of learning, cues and responses. The fact that learning happens this way, and communication is the key. Two way communication, and recognition of a try, from each party. Some traditional or competition slanted coaches don’t get into this sort of thing much, or at all.
Of course, the true P follower often never takes it to the next level, that of competing in the regular disciplines of competition. P instead aims them into the acquisition of P Levels, payment for clinics, payment for testing, payment for special tools, payment, payment, payment.
I sold a sweet little mare to a P type enthusiast, a sweet lady with not a lot of natural ability, but loved horses, and I felt that this mare was very suitable for her. The buyer wanted to lunge the mare at the try out. No problem, the mare lunged well. Then the lady collapsed in the center of the circle, down into a crouch. This, apparently, is part of her particular religion to ask for whoa, and my little mare was immediately concerned for her well being, and stopped on her circle to check that the lady was OK. The lady was thrilled, and bought the horse. The horse has since excelled at this religion, and is awarded with great feed, love, and care. She gets onto podiums, walks over tarps, has tarps pulled over her head. She is unconcerned about al this, goes on little trail rides, and her jumping ability is completely wasted and unused. Pity.
Works just fine.
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