What are the good parts of Parelli training?

[Pocket_Pony]

Ditto what J-Lu said. I actually haven’t ever done the Parelli Brand ™ stuff, but have done clinics with various “NH” horsemen (really, all the ones I’ve worked with have been working cowboys either presently or in the past - so really working horsemen) over the years.

Theretofore, I had ridden h/j, eventing, and dressage for 30-something years. What I learned from the horsemen was something that was never talked about or taught by any of my other instructors: feel, timing, intention, working with the horse’s mind, getting to the feet and into the whole body.

What I have learned has been invaluable. It has given me a lot of confidence in working with a very difficult horse whereby he now looks to me for help and answers. Ditto whoever said 5-10 minutes of productive ground work is better than lunging. It is a great warm-up tool for getting your mind and the horse’s mind in sync and checking out the body to get it soft and responsive.

Working in this way has taught me to really refine my timing and what I see so that instead of being a little bit late with reacting, I can actually anticipate what the horse is going to do before they do it so I can offer a release at just the right time. (Of course I’m not perfect at it, but having the experience of this happening makes me strive to get it right more often.)

Most recently, I was introduced to someone by a fellow COTHer. He is not a big name, probably most people haven’t heard of him. But he is really good and has helped me a lot. When the weather gets better I hope to get some more lessons with him. He breaks things down so I can understand the building blocks and then I can put them together again.

The trouble I have is reconciling the way he rides and teaches with other disciplines; for example, dressage. The contact he likes (which I favor, actually) versus the dressage concept of contact are very different, so how to resolve that is what leaves me scratching my head the most.

What I like about “NH” stuff is that it has helped me to become a more well-rounded horsewoman and I see things from a new angle that I didn’t see before, even though I’d been riding (and in training) for decades. It is like a whole new world has opened up to me and I love soaking in the knowledge.

If you are interested in that type of training, I wouldn’t necessarily go the Parelli route (for me). People I’ve ridden with and from whom I’ve learned a lot are Buck Brannaman, Harry Whitney, Bryan Neubert, and Charley Snell. Each had their own “thing” that they taught or style of teaching (obviously). I’d say Harry and Charley are similar in that they both teach one-on-one, and are really about getting to the horse’s mind before doing anything, changing the focus, and being soft. Bryan’s most recent thing that stuck with me was to get the horse to do your thing but let them do it their way. He’s really good at giving the horse a lesson, knowing when to take a break, and letting them “soak” for a long while so that next time the lesson gets easier. I loved it that when I was in a Buck clinic he would get after anyone he saw do the “crouching tiger” thing - you don’t need to do that. Buck does let people go around doing the wrong thing for a while, seemingly with the hope that people will learn from their mistakes and the horse being the best teacher. But a lot of people go to his clinics and just ride around and don’t even try and that makes him really mad, so I think half the people he just sort of shrugs off, JMHO.

[Scribbler]

The idea of basic ground work is invaluable.

From what I’ve seen, Parelli seems to over complicate it. And because they market so well to newbies, these days all the people who adopt it seem to be not particularly experienced to start out with, and are bad exemplars of the program.

When I was a teen I spent all day with my horse, trail riding and schooling. I was on and off, leading over bridges, she had to step back or over in the stall when I came in, I taught her lateral work from the ground and in the saddle. For anyone who is with their horse that much, a lot of the ground work manners just come in the course of things.

When I returned to riding I saw how little of this work you got to practise, if you tacked up in cross ties, rode, and put your horses away right after.

With my current horse, I did a two day clinic early on with a regional (not parelli) ground work clinician, and have also done a lot of in-hand lateral work from a dressage perspective. Absolutely I require that she move her haunches over, back up, move forward, on cue on the ground, and that she not run me over even if she starts to cavort and buck on the lead line. We do tarps, circus boxes, clicker tricks, etc., as well. But I really can’t see the fun in that being all you do, or even the main thing you do!

I also think that, like everything with horses, you need to follow your own horse’s schedule to a certain extent, so that having check-off boxes for ground work skills in Parelli is as silly as following a rigid training schedule in dressage. You need to have the sense to see what your horse is offering, where the holes are, and the tact to address that.

[King_s_Ransom]

Ditto what Pocket Pony wrote. I was going to write something similar, but in the interest of time, just consider this a duplicate of her post!

[rockymouse]

In my case, Parelli was helpful to me when I was a re-rider just getting into horse ownership. I live in a rural, working ranch area that has no riding clubs, no teachers, no boarding facilities. I was on my own. And while I did know a bit, the Parelli videos gave me a framework to work from that was helpful. Do this. Now do that. Try this thing. There were steps I could follow. For me, alone, this gave me something specific to work on.

From the outset, I hated - really hated - the silly names for things, e.g., “playing” with your horse instead of working with her; “horsenality”, the right brain extrovert stuff and the cult-like grooming of an audience. So cringeworthy. And they’re so self-serving. But, I took what made sense and employed it.

The mare started out alpha and domineering. Years later, we are old friends and we enjoy doing things together. I left Parelli behind six months or so after I started with it. I did learn some about timing and being observant. I learned far more after reading Bill Dorrance books, and watching Ray Hunt videos. Eventually I made friends who were generous with their thoughts and advice. And I’ve taken clinics with worthwhile folks whose talent I admire.

It’s taken a lot of teachers, both human and horse, to get me where I am; that’s not going to change moving forward, either. I’m sort of embarrassed to say that Parelli was initially a stepping stone for me, but in my case, the “games” were a gateway from which my relationship with my mare blossomed.

[Risk-Averse_Rider]

@coanteen

Works just fine.

Right-click, open in new tab/window. Edit. Save. Rejoice.

Editing apparently works for some. Not for me in Chrome, Windows 10.

No rejoicing here.

Some with quoting. I have to type the shortcodes in to make a quote.

[Risk-Averse_Rider]

Thanks for all y’all’s thoughts.

Someone mentioned one of the things that bothers me about (the admittedly limited amount of) what I have seen:

The If A, Then B approach. That tends to work well with data, if you’ve designed A and B correctly, but - in my experience - not with horses or dogs or cats or people.

A woman I know recently sort of got into horses and was leasing from a Parelli-ite, at a Parelli-ite barn, so she really got into it. She knew from conversations that I was not a Parelli-ite.

She was at my place one day holding Mr. Blondie (my late teens QH, low-level eventer/dressage, former Short Bus field hunter). She wanted him to back up, so she started wiggling the lead rope at him.

He stood there looking at her blankly. He’s never been trained to respond to that cue.

But it never occurred to her that horses have to learn what various cues mean. There was a nesting to the If A, Then B that she was missing.

[Guilherme]

[QUOTE=Risk-Averse Rider;9004673]
There’s got to be some good in there somewhere, right?

Something worthwhile to take away.[/QUOTE]

There are some positives within the Parelli system but most of it is an integrated whole and to take a part out is to remove it from its context and that can be problematical.

That also presumes you have the time to sift through the pile of fly dung looking for a few grains of pepper. I’ve got better things to do with my time.

G.

[Silver_Silence]

[QUOTE=Risk-Averse Rider;9004793]
And a sort-of spinoff: if not Parelli, are there NH alternatives that are more acceptable to those who are vehemently anti-Parelli?[/QUOTE]

I strongly dislike Parelli.

That said, take a look at Warwick Schiller if you haven’t (has a number of YouTube vids on his ideologies), he’s hands down the easiest to understand. Puts it all in plain english, and is super hands on with his online community in regards to answering questions, etc. He does not like the term NH, lol.

I truly, accidentally, stumbled upon him a number of years ago, watched one video on YouTube and thought “wow, this guy makes total sense”.

A lot of the things he says and instills are things that I’ve half-assed practiced my entire equine career, like “make the wrong thing hard”. But he really drives home the true reason for any equine “misbehaviour” you might encounter.

He’s great, and there’s never been anything I’ve seen him do or say that I disagree with. Which is a pretty big deal I think. You can get a subscription to his real-time training videos for something like $25 a month, and as it is right now hes got over 400 videos in the library, and adds more every month.

No crouching, no rope shaking, no push to buy his products to help you be a majikal horse trainer. His horses are competitive, he’s proven himself in the show ring and is a NRHA Reserve World Champion.

[short_strided]

I admittedly know nothing about Parelli, but the methods mentioned here seem plain illogical to me. Why would you wiggle the lead rope to ask your horse to back up? Why?.. Why in the world would you crouch in the middle of lunging, like a predator ready to pounce? Why?.. These sound like specific “tricks” that don’t lead anywhere else, or take you beyond that specific program.

[King_s_Ransom]

I don’t know about the whole crouching while lunging thing – but if you can put the slightest feel on the lead rope – not a huge shake, but just pick up a little pressure – and your horse knows what this means, it translates to almost everything you’ll want to do under saddle. Why would you squeeze the right rein? Why? Why in the world would you sit deeper in the saddle? Why? Are these not “tricks”?

No, they are cues.

And, when you can pick up the slightest feel on that lead rope and direct your horse back, forward, left, right, etc., you not only have laid a great foundation for under-saddle work, but you have a wonderful vocabulary that you and your horse both understand. You can ask your horse a question, and he can find the answer.

No, the best of this type of work is not about trick-training at all. It’s about communication – and if done right, it should all translate to riding as well.

I am no expert, but I have to say that I am so happy to have even the simplest tools now that make catching, leading and loading (and unloading) so much easier and safer.

I hope this helps – it’s a good question and I think this has been a good discussion. There is more to it than shaking a rope and swinging a carrot stick.

I have not really investigated Parelli, but from what I have seen IRL, I would agree with those who say stuff starts to get weird after the first level. I sort of think that’s where they turn it into a marketing machine for the less-than-savvy horse owner. But, in all fairness, I am only speaking from having observed some Parelli-ites who have gone through to the top levels. Their horses did seem happy, either. I’ll admit this may have been more about the individuals than the program.

[short_strided]

I think directional pressure (squeezing a rein) is very different from wiggling a lead rope and expecting a horse to move backwards… I’m not sure any “classically” (meaning regular/everyday) trained horse person, or horse, would connect those dots or recognize that cue for backing. It just seems odd to me and I question the usefulness… but different strokes.

[short_strided]

Also, my horse basically follows me and requires very little lead rope pressure… and the remaining 30 horses in the barn lead, load and ride just fine. I’m not purposefully being obtuse, I just don’t understand the wiggle.

[King_s_Ransom]

The way I was taught – and not Parelli – is to use pressure on the lead rope. If you’re having to wiggle the rope, you’re not “there” yet. Again, not Parelli, but NH.

At first, you may have to move the rope as you are both learning. But the way I have learned, if you are out there shaking the rope, you’re still doing it wrong.

I’m sure plenty of horses don’t know lots of cues – whether “classical” or NH or western or whatever. And not knowing these cues probably does not bother them or their owners at all. Doesn’t mean these unknown cues are useless, though.

Like, I bet there are some on this board who have greater vocabularies than others. I get by pretty well with probably an 8th grade vocabulary. But that does not mean a college-level vocabulary is useless. Depends on what you’re trying to say, and to whom.

[King_s_Ransom]

Also, I can direct my horse directionally with very slight pressure, and I have felt this translate to riding.

Again, I am by no means an expert. I am learning, though, and what I am learning is very valuable in riding. Again, not Parelli. I am following along the lines of Ray Hunt, Buck Brannaman and Harry Whitney.

[kcmel]

I’m taking my two to a Roddy Strang clinic this weekend (he’s a local guy with a good reputation). I’m really looking forward to it. My two horses have very different fear issues, so it will be interesting to see how he handles them. I’m hoping take home some good tools.

[jdobbs64]

Read the Tom Dorrance book, the one with Leslie Diamond. Throw Parelli in the trash.

[gypsymare]

Another thing I liked about the Warwick Schiller videos is the variety of horses he demonstrates with. He has one warmblood in there that is high as a kite, a “big kicking Thoroughbred” another warmblood filly that is super wary and seemingly unhandled, a Lipizzaner… He shows a lot of how to work through the incorrect response on a lot of hot blooded English sport horse types. My impressions of Parelli from way back when was that there were a whole lot of very broke and very bored horses in his videos.

[DJohn]

I adore Warwick Schiller. He is funny, kind to the horses and fair. No over-facing, aggression or unnecessary tools/words.

Parelli is basic stuff, not for actual horse people.

[dog_amp_horsemom]

I am not a “parelli” person - but- I did get a couple of things directly from them that worked - I attended a tour of theirs and Linda P. rode her horse in the ring - she did an exercise where she let the horse trot around where ever it wanted to go and in the middle of the ring was a barrel with a treat on it - the horse was able to go to the middle to get the treat after it trotted around the ring ( which progressed to other things like cantering ect). I used this technique on a very ring sour ottb that I had just purchased and it for sure helped cure this horse of being ring sour. He learned to love the ring .
I also had a horse that would bulge going to the left - drop his shoulder. I had bought him with this problem and it was severe. I used the stick ( lunge stick) parallel to his left side as I rode him and it eventually straightened him out very nicely.
I find it fun for me and the horse to try different things to make them happy in the ring. I am very traditional though and if all you did was learn the fundamentals like Anne K. taught at the G.M. clinic at wellington this wk. end - you would have a nice horse that probably wouldn’t need Parelli.

[pluvinel]

[QUOTE=kcmel;9006389]
I’m taking my two to a Roddy Strang clinic this weekend (he’s a local guy with a good reputation). I’m really looking forward to it. My two horses have very different fear issues, so it will be interesting to see how he handles them. I’m hoping take home some good tools.[/QUOTE]

Where is the Roddy Strang clinic? At his place?