A wrongness in what???
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That the lessee pays for everything plus a lease fee.
Why? If Iâm leasing an experienced horse to earn my bronze medal on or to go to pony finals on why shouldnât I have to pay for that privilege? Iâm riding a valuable animal to help me reach my goal and putting wear and tear and my own crappy riding on it and I donât have to pay 100k up front. If it goes lame I pay according to my contract and the horse goes to someone elseâs pasture.
It has been stated clearly dozens of times that not all leases are paid leases but just because you havenât done it doesnât mean itâs wrong. The OP is even objecting to a free lease where the person leasing is only paying for basic costs!
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The alternative is buy your own horse already trained to the level you want, or buy one and train it to that level.
Both of those costs much more than most leases.
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I just want to clarify something. In the scenario here the person leasing is not sharing the horse with the owner, it is like it is their horse to use (within the rules). So why is it wrong for the person getting full use of the horse to pay for everything and a fee for having the use of animal that would likely cost them upper five or six figures to buy?
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I had no clue this would go on for so many posts! The OP asked about âtypicalâ terms, and was rewarded with lots of input, most of which was very consistent, with some variations on the margin. It was also pointed out that leases may have some negotiating room. So I guess Iâm puzzled by the âthis isnât rightâ or âthis isnât fairâ that we keep hearing. Their possible lease is not a mandatory event, so it seems that one would say OK, or maybe say OK if you change XXX. OR walk away. Not rocket science 
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Not one tiny little itty bitty thing wrong with having an opinion and stating it here. Not everyone in the world has to agree on everything. So, not understanding the complaints. You guys keep coming back to the OP simply because she acknowledges your point, says she understands what you are saying, and then she restates her point. You have not changed her opinion, and from the volume it looks like that will not be happening. Just because she disagrees does not mean she isnât understanding what so many of you are horsplaininâ.
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But sheâs not understanding. Thatâs the entire point. She has misunderstood the careful explanations of how leases can and do work and people have tried to correct her.
Youâre now posting saying that itâs WRONG. Itâs not wrong. Itâs how many types of leases work. Just because itâs not your thing doesnât make it wrong.
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Let me give an example:
One of the great gifts of my riding life was that a good friend agreed to lease me her made (2nd level - schooling 3rd) dressage horse on a full care lease.
But these were the circumstances: horse was currently on retirement, turned out in a large field that also contained junk cars. Horse had been trail ridden/ridden in a hunter type frame for a couple of years before being turned out in the large field.
So I went to go get him, got him wormed, vaccinated, Cogginsed, shod, clipped, got him fit and lessoned on him.
His owner was thrilled that he was back in work and thrilled not to be paying the minimal retirement board.
I had an incredible learning journey on the horse. He was NOT an easy ride, not ammy friendly, quirky and required a very specific program.
Later on in my journey, I lessoned on a true 2nd to 3rd level WB, with good scores at those levels, who was show ring ready. In a show barn, professionally supervised, fit, show ring ready. I lessoned on him, because I could not afford to lease him. I was still incredibly grateful for the chance to ride the horse and grateful for what he taught me. I canât imagine insulting the owner or the pro trainer by suggesting they let me ride him on an expenses only lease.
TL; DR?
The first horse, while experienced and talented, is exactly the horse that should be a full care or expenses only lease. Because I took on the risk, and I put the work in. He wasnât ready to show until I had had him for 6 - 8 months, and he wasnât ammy friendly.
Second horse? Ready to show, solid resume, ammy friendly. All the work put in by the previous owners. Absolutely could command a yearly lease fee, above his care, of 1/3 his value.
Why is this hard to understand?
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First, Iâm not complaining, I said I was puzzled. My interpretation of the initial post was that it was a request for information, so I did not expect pushback on whether or not all the input would be agreed with. Never said she didnât understand.
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Itâs not horsesplaining. Itâs the reality of using and enjoying someoneâs horse. That they bought, invested in and made something coveted. That has a value. You either buy it for yourself or you rent / lease it. These are made valuable horses. That doesnât mean all horses donât have intrinsic value it just means that if you want to piggy back on some elseâs work and purchase you have to pay.
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I disagree thst I should pay for my groceries before leaving the store. It would be more fair if I could just take them for free, but everyone else tells me Iâm wrong and thatâs not how supermarkets work. Iâm entitled to my opinion even if everyone disagrees with me.
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Exactly. It seems odd to ask for information, receive requested information from multiple sources, then proceed to tell multiple sources that they are all wrong. Does anyone think there is a friend, a lease or even a horse at this point?
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Until I came here, I didnât know there was a â30% of insured value lease feeâ on top of the leasing costs, so maybe I misspoke.
This is an expensive area and yes, fthe norm is a charge for turnout (which is an hour or two in a dry lot that is bigger than the stall), hot walker, blanketing, fly mask, supplements, noontime feeding, holding for vet/farrier, hand-walking if needed for rehab. Bedding and hay is included in board, having someone feed supplements is extra.
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Please tell me when I asked for information and said âyou are wrong?â
I said I disagreed with how leases work, not that I doubt that is how your leases work.
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Oh my goodness, that is the worst analogy!
Even the folks on this thread have said not all leases require the lessee to pick up full vet costs. So I see the ânormâ is to ask that, but the âactualâ might be something different.
And yes, we are all entitled to our opinions, although I like them to be more logical than your example.
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That isnât hard to understand. (I canât figure out why people arenât understanding me!)
All I am saying is that asking the lessee to have an open checkbook on all vet costs doesnât seem fair to me. I am not questioning the need to do routine vet care, board, training, and the like.
I do think a lessor might charge/want more if the horse is taken off premises or shown or different trainer or shoer.
I do think it is an advantage for the lessor, if the lessee is on the property, uses same farrier/trainer, and is a known entitiy vs a stranger. I think some consideration might be given for that.
Why is that hard for people to understand?
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I have not misunderstood. I hear what you guys are saying. My eyes are opened. I think it isnât fair to the lessee to pick up ALL VET COSTS.
For reference, today I checked with a local olympian barn as to how they do their leases â and, for them, the owner pays the vet fees. It is a way the owner insure the health of their horse is taken care of properly.
Which brings up a second question that I am almost afraid to ask, but here goes:
How does the owner keep tabs on the lessee keeping up with routine care and potentially rehab care? Does the owner make the (non-emergency) vet call appts and the lessee pays? Does the lessee make them and then submit proof to owner? Just curious as to how it works.
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Generally for horses in a training program, IME, there is some kind of barn âheathcare program,â so the barnâs vet is out to do all the vaccinations, Coggins, etc on a set schedule. Makes it much easier to coordinate everything for the vets, and showing, timeliness, and having someone available to hold the horses. So I would assume all routine vet care would be handled that way, and whoever was financially responsible for the horse in question would be invoiced. Again, the âwhoâ there would have been decided ahead of time as part of the lease contract.
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Itâs not considered an âadvantageâ that the leaser uses the ownerâs chosen farrier, vet, and trainer thus warrants a discount. It is often a âconditionâ (which is a different concept) of the lease. In other words, âlike it or lump it.â
If youâre concerned about the costs of routine vet care, you can speak to the owner and barn owner about what they were like for the horse last year. (Vaccinations, supplements, and so forth.) And also discuss the issue of catastrophic vet care, and what happens if the horse is laid up for a significant portion of time with an injury. (Unless itâs a month-to-month lease, in which the lease would just likely end at the termination of the next 30 days, if the horse couldnât do his job.)
People are upset, because leasing a schoolmaster isnât doing a âfavorâ to the owner. The lease fee reflects what the owner or trainer has instilled in the horse, and the horseâs own skills, and reflects what the horse can teach the rider.
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