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What are your expectations for full training board?

Hunter/Jumper
#1

This summer, I moved my horse from a small, backyard operation where I’m renting an apartment (so, in other words, from home), to a low-key show barn. I knew it would be hard, but it was way harder than I expected. It’s only now, almost 2 months in, that I feel like we are back to the level we were at before moving.

So, now that my horse is more settled, I’m starting my first month of full training board. However, this is my second time having a horse in full training. My first time was an absolute disaster. So, I am apprehensive, but I don’t want to come across as controlling, but I also want to know what expectations are reasonable to have so that I don’t, once again, become a total doormat / ATM machine to a trainer who is phoning it in.

If I am being completely honest, I’m not 100% comfortable with the barn’s communication and organization. There are a few different pros who will be alternating rides on my horse depending on the day/schedule. They make an effort to be flexible and accommodating, but the downside is that there’s not a ton of structure. So, for example, there are no set ride times and dates that I can be there and observe. I guess, at the end of the day, if I see real progress, I don’t care when/how they do it. But because of my previous experience, I’m cautious. I would feel better knowing there was a timeline for things like starting over fences, teaching the lead change, etc. Does anyone have advice for when to expect these things in a horse that has a year of basic w/t/c with a low intermediate/beginner rider?

1 Like
#2

I think there are a couple of reddish flags here.

Not knowing when the horse is going to be worked and by whom is a concern. It’s not reasonable for you to expect to watch every ride, but it’s certainly reasonable for you to watch, say, a ride per week, and it would not be onerous for the barn to commit to a set day and time for that one ride per week. I would also ask to be sent videos of some of the training sessions. Not every one, but it would be reasonable to get a video every third or fourth ride to show progress.

Second question I have is, how do the different riders/trainers communicate with each other about the schedule and the horse’s progress? Is there communication with each other as vague as their communication with you? This set up makes me think that maybe it’s working students who will be doing the riding on a catch as catch can basis.

Is there a training board contract? What does it say?

I would strongly advise you to set expectations and get clarity on these questions immediately. It will be harder to address the further along you get in the training relationship.

Finally, how old is the horse? If it’s 5 or older, and is solid w/t/c on the flat, with the ability to travel straight off your leg, it can be started over fences now, starting with poles on the ground and simple, inviting gymnastics. How fast it progresses from there depends on temperament and athleticism.

Teaching a flying change should not begin until the horse can hold a clear, balanced, rhythmic canter with suspension on its own, without being unduly supported by the rider. The horse should also take both leads when asked consistently and demonstrate a quiet, obedient simple change through the trot when changing direction.

Some trainers like to do a lot of work in counter canter before teach a flying change.

ETA: My favorite technique for teaching flying changes in hunters is to always halt, perpendicular the short side of the arena, after jumping a line, then backing a step or two, moving off the new inside leg, then picking up the new lead. This teaches the horse that there’s always a whoa, rebalance and change of the bend after a line, a very useful thing indeed. If you’re consistent in this approach, one day you’ll be cantering towards the rail and the horse will just offer the change rather than the whoa, rebalance, new bend. The horse tells you when they’re ready by offering the change. Lots of riders and trainers screw up by asking for the change before the horse is ready, and get late changes behind, partial changes and an anxious horse.

9 Likes
#3

I think this is the norm, honestly, and I don’t think it’s realistic to expect a set schedule or time on a daily basis. Maybe you can coordinate a time once per week that you can be there?

Also, horse training isn’t linear… If the trainer said, “Oh, we’re going to have a lead change solidified in three weeks,” they’re setting you, them, and the horse up for disappointment.

I understand being cautious, but I think you need to see how the first month goes and go from there. I have two in full-training, and I operate on a “no news is good news” policy.

13 Likes
#4

My expectations for training board.

The horse will receive excellent care as agreed on our contract written or verbal. The horse will be worked on the number of days we agreed, by the person or persons we agreed. I will be able to get updates weekly, and visit weekly to watch a ride or take a lesson on my horse.

But what I am buying is the skill to put rides and schooling on a horse above my current skill level. So I need to trust that the trainer is skilled and honest and will do the work, and I expect there will be setbacks. I also know training is not linear in progression and takes more time than you think, because I’ve done it myself a lot.

I would not care what time of day the horse was being worked, and I would not expect the horse to learn on a preset curriculum either.

11 Likes
#5

Why?
What have they done to make you feel this way?

Is this training board that includes you taking lessons on your horse too? Or is your horse just off for training and at some point you will start riding it again?

#6

I scheduled a one-off pro ride as a trial before committing to training board. It was a little chaotic. I showed up at the agreed-upon time, tacked, lunged, walked around looking for the pro who was MIA… my horse was pawing and tense by the time she got on, so she had to spend most of the ride getting him to calm down and focus. He wouldn’t have been that way if it weren’t for all the waiting around. Of course by the same token, if I hadn’t insisted on being there and hadn’t gotten him out and tacked, she would have done it on her own time without the hiccups… so, that’s fair, but at the same time, I guess my worry is that if I’m not there tapping my watch, will they ever get around to riding? Will they try to leave him standing in the x-ties for an hour beforehand like the lesson horses, and then be surprised that the rides are explosive and unproductive? Will they report back how great he’s doing walking and trotting, when I’ve already been doing w/t/c and was hoping for them to do more?

#7

So you have a horse that gets tense and impatient to the point of being explosive…

Is part of the problem because you start tapping your watch?

I am not pro horses standing around in cross ties forever, but is your horse learning to be patient and waiting a bad thing?

You describe yourself as a “low intermediate/beginner rider”, so though you have been cantering, I would not find it weird to have a pro work on developing the walk and trot for a bit before the start working on the canter, so they have a horse that is using themselves correctly. So a trainer saying how well the walk/trot is going would not worry me at all.

If you do not trust these people, why did you pick this barn?
You don’t have to answer me on that, answer yourself on that.

What does your contract say about them riding and showing you how training is going? Can you contact them and see if there is a time when you can come watch?

11 Likes
#8

I half leased at this barn for a while and got a good vibe. They are more down-to-earth and practical than other show barns in the area. They seem to have success with a lot of different breeds, types, and ages. And it’s true, it couldn’t hurt to teach my horse patience and resilience in situations where he can’t keep to his perfect routine. I probably do just need to step back and trust the process.

1 Like
#9

I’m of the “trust, but verify” mentality. I agree they are going to work the horse at different times of the day and even different days of the week based on factors ranging from progress to weather to trainer availability and everything in between. I would want a quick weekly update via text with a short 1-2 minute video. Something like, “Dobbin had a good week. He had 5 rides. He felt a little tired after working three days in a row so we gave him Friday off. He’s getting more consistent in the bridle. Here’s a little video of him trotting around.” And then, definitely once a month and maybe twice a month, I would want to have an appointment to see him ridden.

Given that he has been tense on the ground in your presence before, let them get him ready etc and just meet them at the ring to watch. You can check in on his ground manners and go say hi to him after the ride.

9 Likes
#10

Maybe unpopular opinion here, but if this were my horse, they’d spend a ton of time being tied in order to learn that it’s a happy place, and to learn to stand there quietly until it’s their turn.

Maybe even so far as to work them a bit, then go tie them up and let them stand.
Ride another horse.
Come back again, work them a bit again, then tie them up again.
Ride another horse.
Etc.

Pretty soon, being tied up is a good thing and relaxing, and a “reward” after being worked.

If the horse is the type to being explosive, it’s not because of being tied up… And that’s a behavior that needs to be dealt with.

I can understand your mistrust if you had a bad experience elsewhere, but it does sound like you are already expecting this new place to fail.

How long did you wait for the pro that first time? 5 min? 15 min? Longer?
And pro sounds like she WAS successful with getting the horse to calm down?
Again, sounds like this could be a very, very good thing for your horse and for it to learn some patience.

8 Likes
#11

The hard part of being a low intermediate is you know enough to know how much you don’t know, but you don’t yet have a really accurate way to evaluate trainers and experts. So you know you need to evaluate but can be bent out of shape about the wrong things. That’s a hard place to be

I’d call myself very experienced but not pro, and not competitive, with some age and personality and current horse limitations. But I feel I can evaluate all my horse service providers including farrier, vet, trainers, hay dudes, etc even when they are above my own skill level.

A good trainer will work on your horse globally, and will have a system for tacking up, cross ties, whatever that the horse will learn to accomodate. A good trainer will not get the horse fussy during tacking and then blame the horse. A good trainer will start at zero and look.for all the holes in the horses existing training, and that includes ground manners, mounting block, walk and trot and halt correctly, etc.

I ride primarily dressage and we do so much work at walk and trot that prepares for canter.

In jumping, the ride between the fences is what’s important much more than the actual hop.over a 2 foot rail. The horse needs to be calm and adjustable at trot and then at canter.

Look at the other horses in the program. Do you like how they turn out? Do you like how the trainer and their students ride? If so, then trust they can do good with your horse.

I expect they will find the horse much calmer when you are not around :slight_smile: for the same reason many farriers prefer to work on horses when the owner isn’t there

6 Likes
#12

Here are a couple of thoughts from the Trainer’s perspective:

  1. I would hope that you did your homework before choosing this training program. Do you like what you see at the shows? At your farm visit? Does the barn have a good reputation and did it seem well organized when you visited?
  2. We expect to earn a client’s trust. Unless you are concerned about the welfare of your horse, I would suggest you settle in and see how the program is working for you.
  3. In terms of communication, you should absolutely expect to know what is going on with your horse. That doesn’t mean a daily progress report, but you should be aware of the farrier schedule, vet schedule- including any concerns or changes. Training wise, you need to give them the space to “do their thing”. Nothing should be hidden, but there are riding lessons and there are training rides. Don’t expect to pay for a training ride and interact with the staff like it’s a riding lesson. It’s distracting to have the owner underfoot All The Time.
  4. For our regular training rides, we don’t arrange those rides around an owner observing. An owner is welcome to come, but we ride based upon the turnout schedule, farrier, vet and so on. We don’t make an appointment like we do for a riding lesson. We would say, “We’ll be riding Dobbin sometime between 8:00 and 11:00”. If the owner comes, we would expect for them to sit in the viewing area and observe quietly. A quick chat afterwards and on to the next one.
  5. The issue is whether your horse is happy, healthy and is positively progressing. You are in charge, but let your trainer do their job without micro managing.
17 Likes
#13

I totally agree with this. Give them a few weeks to get a feel for your horse and start formulating a game plan, and then ask to have a conversation about what they think the best way forward is and what you can generally expect from the program. I honestly wouldn’t even go out and observe during this time, just let them do their thing. I would assume there’s going to be a degree of flexibility no matter what though, which in a well-run program is a good thing. You want them exercising their judgment and adjusting to meet your horse’s needs.

I really don’t see any red flags from what you posted. Having multiple pros sharing the work sounds like a net positive to me, they’ll all have different strengths and can bounce ideas off each other, plus if one is sick or something the others can pick up the slack without interrupting your horse’s momentum. My horse (only partial training, so YMMV) is ridden by a few trainers who work together and it’s awesome. Set ride times is unrealistic IMO, but asking them for one ride a week you can plan to watch consistently should be fair as long as you can get out during their normal riding times (I still would expect this to be a ballpark time vs starting exactly when they tell you, there’s all kinds of ways the schedule can go wrong). I also agree that your horse is probably going to spend some time going back to basics no matter what, so you may not see a ton of obvious progress right away. We just did this with mine and it’s already paying off.

Bottom line is a good program should be able to explain all of this to you so you know what to expect and how things are progressing. Ultimately answering your questions is part of their job, so try not to pester them but if they’re really hard to get information out of it might be a red flag. It takes some time to establish trust with a training program, but if you were happy there while half-leasing I would give them the benefit of the doubt for a while and see how it goes.

3 Likes
#14

I should think the most important thing to expect in a “ full service” training barn would be decent trainers. Nothing else matters if the training is not up to par.

Have always been willing to compromise on other things IF the training is there. From what OP shared, sounds like the most important part of a “full service” barn might be missing here.

But don’t be hasty, give this some time and see where it goes. And try to relax and let them do their job for a few weeks.

1 Like
#15

having had been a groom while in college I also paid attention the staff and the level of care they provided

The only horse we had in boarded training I found the groom giving the horse an apple that I know she had bought, she said the horse was special (which we thought also) and she deserved a treat.

After talking with the trainer I began sending this groom a monthly stipend as our horse really liked her also. Horse also bought her lunch at least once a week (horse had free with her credit card but never abused it)

8 Likes
#16

@clanter I’ve heard you mention this in about 100 other threads, so I don’t feel awkward asking- how exactly did the horse have “her own CC”? Was it just a CC that you used expressly for horse-related expenses (I do this too, so I can track horse spending) or, literally, a card with her name on it, that an employee or dependant child would have- their name is on it, but the bill comes to me and I pay it.

#17

I imagine it’s Iike how some people hang a jolly ball or a saIt Iick. For others, they hang a credit card.

2 Likes
#18

The horse was a asset of my business that was used in advertising, I just got her her own credit card through my company to keep more accurate track of the expenses

card was held by the trainer

card was used to pay vet/farrier and other reoccurring miscellanea expenses

6 Likes
#19

Wow, H/J, such a different world.

I have my horses in dressage training, and I know exactly when they are ridden and what they are working on, and tend to watch most training rides because I am at the barn at that time. I can text my trainer or groom at any time for any status.

Is it because H/J tend to have group lessons and thus there are more people for the trainer to coordinate with, thus, a more flexible schedule?

3 Likes
#20

Not necessarily because of group lessons, but because of this. Hunter/jumper programs tend to be much larger than dressage ones, and also require a bit more oversight from the trainer due to the high volume of kids and newbie owners. At least IME, it’s most common to get started in H/J and then switch to other disciplines. These types of riders do require a bit more work from the pro.

A program that can support multiple trainers tends to be large - I’ve been in programs with 30-50+ horses currently in training/regular use with “only” two trainers and a barn manager if they’re lucky. Juggling all that, getting everyone ridden, making sure chores are done and nothing tries to die, coordinating with the vet and farrier (which are often there weekly, during school/work hours so someone other than the owner is holding), coordinating who is showing vs staying, maintaining the ring and property, and oh! teaching lessons from 9am-9pm some days - that can take a very organized person to pull off and it’ll still look like chaos.

I would never expect detailed updates and constant texting with trainers, but I WOULD expect mostly weekly updates and the ability to schedule a “lesson”, even if that lesson is watching a training ride and chatting about progress.

Progress is never linear, and moving to a new program can feel like three huge steps back. I do wonder if OP has mostly trained this horse themselves so far - which is great, but IME the intermediate owner trained, kept at home horses take a big learning curve of just Life Skills when they are put into a professional program. It’s a different routine, and these horses are learning far more than WTC and jump - they’re learning patience and ground manners and how to be ridden in traffic and stand in the middle of the ring while horses canter and jump by.

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