What bit is the right bit?

[kkmrad94]

I just got a new horse who is Western trained. I am pretty clueless when it comes to finding the right bit for a horse. The lady I bought him from had him in a snaffle with shanks which he seemed to do okay in. I’m not sure what kind of bit would be similar to that and not too severe?

I was reading and saw that a lot of people suggested myler bits. Is going from have a snaffle to a port that large of a leap?

Just looking for helpful pointers and people who have suggestions. I’m open to pretty much anything. Thanks!

[Fillabeana]

A snaffle does not have shanks. Correctly described, your horse was ridden in a curb/leverage bit with a broken mouthpiece.

The combination of broken (“snaffle”)mouthpiece with leverage makes such a bit very severe. In general, a curb bit with shortish shanks and a medium port should be milder, because it does not concentrate the pressure so much on the horse’s bars.

This bit is particularly severe, with 9" shanks:
http://www.chicksaddlery.com/page/CDS/PROD/1040/291915?utm_source=shopzilla&utm_medium=cpc&utm_campaign=shopzilla%2Bdata%2Bfeed
This bit doesn’t have the long shanks, but it does not give a very clear signal to the horse:
http://www.horse.com/item/westen-ss-copper-mouth-snaffle-tom-thumb-bit/E008390/?srccode=GPHORSE&gclid=Cj0KEQjwjtGfBRCN4-LU9ODG1-wBEiQAy_Xp77_W_MZccBs44TVa5kdImbWW0LDohcomfbDgkv2B0gQaAjnp8P8HAQ

Here is a curb bit that would be less severe than one with a broken mouthpiece:
http://www.horse.com/item/ss-curb-bit-with-copper-roller/SLT731964/

But…if you are steering with two hands, going to such a curb bit would be likely to cause some confusion for the horse.

Are you riding with both hands? On the trails, mostly? Or in an arena to do anything? I’d suggest going back to a snaffle, and also going about teaching the horse to supple and bend, balance and carry himself well, and respond to ‘whoa’ or ‘slow down’ aids without pulling on the bit.

I’ve heard it said that lots of people stop using a snaffle because it isn’t working and they’re having problems.
If the horse will go nicely in a regular snaffle, there’s your answer.
If he won’t, if he has problems, let us know what the problems are and you can go from there.

[UlysMom]

The bit you’re describing the horse came with sounds like a Tom Thumb, which, in the wrong hands can be a severe bit. Myler bits come in all sorts of shapes and sizes, with mullen mouths to high port correction mouth pieces, snaffles to shanked bits. Myler is just the brand, they have a wide variety of bits to choose from.

If he was western trained, he was proably started in a snaffle bit and may very well be comfortable in a regular old standard snaffle. I have a myler comfort snaffle and the same mouth piece with short shanks, a ton of different snaffles (two and three pieces, all sorts of mouthpieces and ring shapes), grazing bits, basic curbs, etc. I also have a ported correction myler (the parelli/myler correction bit) that I have on hand for certain horses/training. Honestly, it’s a trial and error process to find a bit that works best for your horse.

Are you working with a trainer who might be able to suggest an appropriate bit or have a knowledgable friend that has a large bit collection you can play with?

[kkmrad94]

I rode him last night and he seemed to do okay. I rode him in something that looks pretty much like this http://www.ridingwarehouse.com/Myler_HBT_Shank_Ported_MB_04_Bit/descpage-MSPMB04.html , except the shanks have some curves in them.

When I went to take the bit / bride off of him when we were done he had is teeth held down and wouldn’t let go. I’m concerned that if I put him in just a snaffle he will hold on to the bit and then will have zero control? I’m not sure if someone was really rough with him in the past or not… he does just fine accepting the bit, just not letting go.

Since he is in a shank bit I was just neck reining, with the reins loose.

[SuckerForHorses]

[QUOTE=kkmrad94;7723618]
I rode him last night and he seemed to do okay. I rode him in something that looks pretty much like this http://www.ridingwarehouse.com/Myler_HBT_Shank_Ported_MB_04_Bit/descpage-MSPMB04.html , except the shanks have some curves in them.

When I went to take the bit / bride off of him when we were done he had is teeth held down and wouldn’t let go. I’m concerned that if I put him in just a snaffle he will hold on to the bit and then will have zero control? I’m not sure if someone was really rough with him in the past or not… he does just fine accepting the bit, just not letting go.

Since he is in a shank bit I was just neck reining, with the reins loose.[/QUOTE]

Good choice on the bit, in my opinion.

Regarding him “holding onto the bit” when you went to take the bridle off. That would not concern me. My gelding holds onto his sometimes too. I don’t think it’s likely to translate into him “grabbing onto” a snaffle and taking control.

[Aces_N_Eights]

[QUOTE=kkmrad94;7723618]
I rode him last night and he seemed to do okay. I rode him in something that looks pretty much like this http://www.ridingwarehouse.com/Myler_HBT_Shank_Ported_MB_04_Bit/descpage-MSPMB04.html , except the shanks have some curves in them.

When I went to take the bit / bride off of him when we were done he had is teeth held down and wouldn’t let go. I’m concerned that if I put him in just a snaffle he will hold on to the bit and then will have zero control? I’m not sure if someone was really rough with him in the past or not… he does just fine accepting the bit, just not letting go.

Since he is in a shank bit I was just neck reining, with the reins loose.[/QUOTE]

I think that bit is a good place to start too

As far as him “holding the bit”, I consider that a good thing!
That means he’s picking up the bit and packing it on his own rather than just letting the headstall holding it in his mouth. Usually a good sign that he is excepting of the bit.

[SpottedTApps]

That’s a really good bit that you showed, the Myler. I own a couple like it an most of my horses love them. I’d quickly recommend it. I would not recommend a single bit in the post above.

[Emilia]

I am not a western rider, do not know the horse or the training, so would not comment on which bit is good to start with. How can anyone do that assessment online anyway?

OP, try to educate yourself on bits. There is a lot of information online or search in your local library. I know, you don’t have a trainer, but, surely, there are some more experienced people, who can help you out.

This website has some basic information:
http://horse-bits.com/

It is still a commercial site, but one has to start somewhere.

As for not letting go of the bit- it can also mean that he holds his jaw so tight, it is hard for him to unlock. Not a good sign.

Some experienced eyes on the ground would help.

[kdow]

With holding the bit - I rode with someone this summer who does western and she teaches her horses to wait for the command “spit it out” to open up and release the bit when untacking. Is it possible something like that is going on?

[kkmrad94]

I’ve done some research but all the book definitions only help so much. I was coming here to see what people prefer. Everyone has an opinion on the best thing out there and most web pages are a little biased anyways.

I am hoping to take more lessons later on but for right now I’m just trying to figure out his buttons and what works best.

I was just concerned about the snaffle because he will occasionally be ridden by inexperienced people and I don’t think that a curb bit would be the best. I didn’t know if him not letting go of the bit would cause an issue.

[kkmrad94]

[QUOTE=kdow;7723798]
With holding the bit - I rode with someone this summer who does western and she teaches her horses to wait for the command “spit it out” to open up and release the bit when untacking. Is it possible something like that is going on?[/QUOTE]

I don’t think he is quite holding it so he doesn’t have to listen. When I took his bridle off he didn’t seem to have his jaw locked, he just didn’t open his mouth and spit it out like most horses do.

[kdow]

[QUOTE=kkmrad94;7723806]
I don’t think he is quite holding it so he doesn’t have to listen. When I took his bridle off he didn’t seem to have his jaw locked, he just didn’t open his mouth and spit it out like most horses do.[/QUOTE]

Right, that is how her horses were - if you kept trying to remove the bridle without the command you didn’t end up in a tug of war over the bit, but the horse would tend to look confused and depending on the horse maybe a little offended that you weren’t following proper protocol. Maybe try staying something like spit it out or open up, etc. next time and see if that is what the horse is waiting for?

[SpottedTApps]

I would stick with what the current owner has in the horse’s mouth to start with. Later down the road if the need arises, then you can look into a different bit.

[kkmrad94]

[QUOTE=SpottedTApps;7723907]
I would stick with what the current owner has in the horse’s mouth to start with. Later down the road if the need arises, then you can look into a different bit.[/QUOTE]

I do not know what the previous owner rode him in. When I bought him I rode him in a tom thumb because that is what the lady who was selling it for the guy had. I bought him from a consignment place.

[cloudy18]

I have two bits similar to the Myler you posted, and all three of my horses do fine in them. I also ride them in snaffles occasionally. I have a junior cowhorse with a broken mouthpiece and that thing is going up for sale.

I agree with the poster who said it can be trial and error to find a bit your horse likes. But I would avoid anything with both a broken mouthpiece and a shank.

I don’t have any advice for getting him to let go of the bit. I’ve never had that issue!

[Emilia]

[QUOTE=kkmrad94;7723803]
I’ve done some research but all the book definitions only help so much. I was coming here to see what people prefer…

I am hoping to take more lessons later on but for right now I’m just trying to figure out his buttons and what works best.

I was just concerned about the snaffle because he will occasionally be ridden by inexperienced people and I don’t think that a curb bit would be the best. I didn’t know if him not letting go of the bit would cause an issue.[/QUOTE]

It almost does not matter, what people prefer, because they have never seen your horse and his mouth (how it is set up anatomically). Also, they did not get the chance to evaluate his training, such as how well he gives, lateral flexions, etc.

What works for them, might be wrong for you (even, if it looks good on paper).

When I wrote about educating yourself on bits, well, I also meant about the anatomy of horse’s mouth and how it affects the selection of the bit. That part is not much biased at all.

I am harsh, but I would highly recommend you to stop “hoping to take lessons” and start actually taking them (or at least get in with an experienced friend/horseperson).

Books, such as True Horsemanship Through Feel, or DVD Seven Clinics with Buck Brannaman would also help. There are many more. Here on COTH, Fillabeana, Pocket Pony, and others would have good pointers.

Btw., figuring your horse’s buttons is best done on the ground first during in-hand work.

In-hand work does not have to be boring and it will help you to establish a really nice relationship with your horse.

It will also help you to answer the question about the bit.

[Aces_N_Eights]

[QUOTE=emilia;7723755]
I am not a western rider, do not know the horse or the training, so would not comment on which bit is good to start with. How can anyone do that assessment online anyway?

OP, try to educate yourself on bits. There is a lot of information online or search in your local library. I know, you don’t have a trainer, but, surely, there are some more experienced people, who can help you out.

This website has some basic information:
http://horse-bits.com/

It is still a commercial site, but one has to start somewhere.

As for not letting go of the bit- it can also mean that he holds his jaw so tight, it is hard for him to unlock. Not a good sign.

Some experienced eyes on the ground would help.[/QUOTE]

While I agree that not seeing the horse in rider in person makes it near impossible to make a proper assessment, we are all on this forum and, hopefully, understand that we can only make suggestions based on the information given.

With that said, the OP claimed her horse went okay in the bit she tried him in. I would assume that meant he was not horribly resistant in the face(usually an indicator of resistance from a body part behind) no head tossing or mouth gapping. If a horse went well in a bit, had a moist mouth and I had to ask him to drop his bit rather than him spitting it I would be pleased and believe that indicated I was on the right track to finding a good bit and riding him well

I absolutely agree that anyone should learn as much as they can about bits and bitting. Kind of like trying to send a telegraph without knowing morse code.

[Fillabeana]

The Myler bit you posted is not a severe bit. Its mouthpiece may move, but it will not collapse onto the bars of the horse’s mouth. A shanked, broken-mouth ‘snaffle’, and/or a tom thumb, has a mouthpiece that will fold in half. That folding action, combined with the leverage cheeks, creates much more pressure (psi) on the bars of the horse’s mouth. Therefore, any broken-mouth, shanked bit that will fold in half would be considered more severe than a standard curb with the same length of shanks and length of purchase (length above the bit to the bridle rings).

If the horse goes in a happy manner in the bit he came in, there’s your answer.

If you are concerned that the horse will ignore the bit, teach the horse to stop and turn off leg and seat cues. If you can indicate direction (using the reins without engaging the leverage), and almost never actually USE the leverage, the horse will be much less likely to ignore it on the occasions you do pull strongly enough on the reins to tighten the curb strap against his chin.

If you want headgear for the horse that will not be severe should a novice be bumping or jerking unintentionally, get a sidepull hackamore (plain leather noseband) or a plain D-ring, eggbutt or O-ring snaffle.

[Emilia]

[QUOTE=Aces N Eights;7725225]
While I agree that not seeing the horse in rider in person makes it near impossible to make a proper assessment, we are all on this forum and, hopefully, understand that we can only make suggestions based on the information given. [/QUOTE]

If you read other OP’s threads, perhaps, you would agree that the only suggestion she should be getting is to find an experienced horseperson to help her learning more about horses and horsemanship so that this horse does not end up for sale in a year or so (like the last one).

Not “hoping to take lessons,” but actually taking them (and building a network of trusted horse people).

She does not need a GP trainer, just someone with good base horse knowledge, who could help her to realize, for instance:

1. The process of figuring “horse buttons” is best started on ground- first, in halter, then in-hand in snaffle and go from there to see what level the training is and which holes might need to be filled.
2. There is a huge difference between an action of a snaffle and a curb (plus, differences within these categories). One cannot use curb like a snaffle and the snaffle is what the OP seems to be used to primarily (judging from her remark on Endurance Forum about her use of contact).
3. While anatomy of horses’ mouths is generally similar, there might be enough individual difference to grant the need for a very particular bit.

Participation on a BB cannot replace a real person on the ground, especially for a relatively inexperienced horse person.

For general knowledge, even books, such as “True Horsemanship Through Feel” or B. Brannaman’s DVDs would be better. For English riding, I like Philippe Karl or Racinet, but it is not everybody’s cup of tea. For Forward Seat, that could be Littauer or G. Morris.

I am not writing this “sitting on my high horse.” When I came to the US, I quickly realized I had a lot to learn despite years spent in a well operated dressage club. The riding scene here is more varied and this variety also demonstrates itself in large selection of tack.

For instance, I only knew a snaffle and a double bridle. So, when I was introduced to a three year old QH in a gag, I was so naïve, I almost bought the animal! I never saw a bit like that before.

I was fortunate enough to have people around me, who first laughed, then helped me to get out of the deal (I went to look alone). This mistake cost me quite a bit, but it would be way worse, if I got stuck with that horse, possibly unable to improve him, and then sent him down the road.

Let me repeat that experienced horse people who one can actually regularly meet in person are indispensable (and one does not even have to agree with everything they say).

I sincerely hope, this horse is going to work out. His sale ad as a four year old describes him as a very level headed animal- a perfect one to learn ropes on.

OP, for his sake, find someone close to you, who will watch over you, while you are on your journey together. Good Luck!

ETA: If you will be looking for an English saddle for him, you will probably need wide tree, possibly a hoop tree, such as Black Country or Duett make. You can check Trumbull Mountain for some info and, if saddles are hard to find locally, you can send them tracings and they might help you to choose. In case, you liked Duetts best, I would recommend to deal with Nancy directly. It is easy to find either of these two by a simple search.

[UlysMom]

Ok, wow. I just went and read some of the OP’s other posts. 100% agreement with emilia. OP, to help you have a more successful journey and to provide your new horse the best possible opportunities, I would strongly urge you to find a competent horse professional to help guide you. Good luck to you!