What bloodlines specifically do you like to see in your TB sporthorse?

Gumtree and I seem to see eye to eye. :wink: And I also agree about Soup-- love his type, and my biggest fault with him is that he’s gray. :stuck_out_tongue: I haven’t seen enough of his get, personally, to offer a very educated opinion. But I like him; and like JER said, Caro lines tend to jump well.

While I’m fascinated with bloodlines, I’m much more concerned with the individual standing in front of me. Like BFNE, when I see horses I like, I’m inspired to look up the pedigree and make note of where it came from. But this only comes after looking at many horses, before you determine common traits and how prepotent they seem to be. We, as humans, like to consider a sample of 1 offspring to be relevant…when it isn’t, really. Clearly, ANY mare/stallion could potentially create a world-beater; and, commonly, ANY mare/stallion can make a dud. Statistically, there are a lot more duds than world-beaters. So you absolutely cannot look at a pedigree, with one or two Big Name X back in 4+ generations, and infer that the horse is going to be just like X.

More likely, that horse is going to be just like it’s sire, dam, or grandparents, which may or may not be carriers of the desirable genes passed down from Big Name X. And keep in mind, those desirable genes may be present-- the horse is a phenomenal jumper, like X-- but it also has genes from the dam’s side who blessed him with downhill build, poor feet, and bad movement, meaning while he may jump the moon, he isn’t going to win Rolex. Again, evaluate the horse in front of you and don’t let a brilliant pedigree overshadow the phenotype. (When speaking for competitive purposes-- breeding is a different story, and might be worth a risk.)

For instance: people say they like Mr P in sporthorse pedigrees. The great success of Fappiano (by Mr P) lines in sport could be a reason for this, as well as other direct Mr P descendants who have done well. But, there are plenty of Mr P relatives who were not good sport horses, too. Carson City, by Mr P, tended to sire short-coupled, athletic, fast horses-- that were on the small side, possibly downhill, and ran with their heads straight in the air. The Mr P doesn’t matter much in the pedigree; I wouldn’t consider a typical Carson City son/daughter as an upper level prospect, due to the short stiff neck-- it would be a constant battle to develop collection with that conformation. However, I don’t know how far down the line the Carson City high-headed style travels; there are lots of successful (racing) CC broodmares, I just haven’t seen enough of those offspring off the track personally. The City Zips I’ve seen were a little too sprinter-type for my taste, so generally CC closeup on the page is a turn-off for me (sight unseen).

In short, a horse’s conformation is much more likely to be dictated by its parents or grandparents. If the mom, dad, and granddad look like a downhill sprinting QH (and only raced 6 times at 7f), don’t expect the offspring to be a Rolex winner, despite the Buckpasser or Blushing Groom or Fappiano wherever in the pedigree. Look at the horse in front of you; and look at pics of the sire, pics of the dam (if found), pics of grandsires, and pics of grandsires’ other sons at stud. Some combination of that is probably what the horse will look like, and conformation will likely determine the horse’s sporthorse potential.

obviously you have to look at the horse in front of you! but the question was: what TB horses do you want to see in a sport horse pedigree :wink:

Some more fun horses…

Intermediate/Advanced Eventer: http://www.pedigreequery.com/lucky+teddy still going strong with a junior. Photo

This is both a lovely moving/jumping and very good minded horse:http://www.pedigreequery.com/leroy+d also still going strong with a junior. I alway thought his pedigree was interesting.

For what its worth–I struggled to find a very high quality TB mare to add to my program. I think I spent five years looking…which is not to say there are not good mares out there just the ones I want are extremely hard to come by. Those who are both exceptional and with interesting pedigrees are even harder to come by. The mare I finally ended up with was bred by a Thoroughbred breeder who also events—she focus’s on producing real SPORTing prospects–and not just for speed.

[QUOTE=Simkie;6424052]
Saw a LOVELY mare today with a lot of popular sport horse names.

http://www.pedigreequery.com/sailors+port

Hubba hubba. How’s that fly for you all? Pleasant Colony, Lyphard, Roberto, TV Lark, more His Majesty through Frosty the Snowman, Caro AND Kings Bishop.[/QUOTE]

That line is amazing for sport as far as Im concerned. We bred another Pleasant Colony grand daughter by a different son this season (Cherokee Colony) who is simply an outstanding producer. I saw her most recent filly (yearling) and I wanted to take her home–just a jaw dropper.

Really like this post I am learning so much! So I had to go and look at some canter mares and check pedigrees someone said Private account close up.

What about this mare?

http://www.pedigreequery.com/vision+of+division

Canter ad

http://www.canterusa.org/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=6172:vision-of-division-warwick-md&catid=50:delaware-park-trainer-listings

She has a great build, but I am no expert!

one last one:

http://www.pedigreequery.com/silver+speed2

http://www.canterusa.org/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=5494:silver-speed&catid=52:laurel-bowie-pimlico-trainer-listings

Going by 2nd, 3rd & 4th generation in my broodmares, I like Cozzene, Diesis, Secretariat, Tom Rolfe, Stop the Music, Sir Gaylord, My Babu, Bold Ruler, Prince John, Dr. Fager, Pleasant Colony, Seattle Slew & Storm Cat.

I don’t have any broodmares right now with Storm Cat or Seattle Slew, those ottbs that have come in were sound and are fantastic jumpers, so they either were sold showing or are here showing. My Seattle Slew line mare is showing level 3 with a 16 yr old girl. They look like they can move up to level 4 by the end of the summer.

I loooove my Cozzene mares, they have been bred to Valentino Z as well as the Diesis mare.

My mare’s mother was one of the NICEST sport horse producer’s I’ve ever seen. She had one licensed stallion son and was the maternal grand dam of two other licensed stallions. She was (For The Moment / Key To The Mint / Tom Fool)

I love the Key To The Mint horses I’ve known.

I also get really excited when I see:
Buckpasser
Cozzene
Blushing Groom (Holy jump Batman!!!)
In Reality

a gelding that i had was one of the nicest TBs i have known for hind end power/sitability and propensity for collection and just shear raw dressage talent was

http://www.pedigreequery.com/gin+player2

if he hadn’t of been mentally fried by the time i got him he would of been a really really fun horse to train.

mbm, the horse you posted has a top and bottom double to Tudor Ministrel. That to me is an indication of dressage potential. He is sire line for both Lauries Crusador and Arak, and the more Hyperion/Bay Ronald you can get in a pedigree, IMO, the more likely you are to have dressage potential.

His Majesty’s dam, Flower bowl, is by the Hyperion son, Flower Bowl out of a Beau Pere mare.

Too bad about the brain fried, because that horse was bred to be a sport horse. He has many lines that have produced show jumpers as well as event horses and even dressage horses at the GP level.

to this day i wish i had kept him and tried to work thru his issues. he was small - maybe 15.3 but a frikking powerhouse of a horse.

very sensitive and his prior situation literally melted his mind.

Nowadays when i look for a horse i try to find a hind end similar to his because the feeling of power that was there when he connected was literally amazing!

last i heard he was jumping and doing well… but he is one that was ā€œlostā€ due to prior horrid handling…

wow, he has a full sister! now that would be a mare i would love to see!

http://www.pedigreequery.com/edge+of+darkness2

Seems to be a recurring theme ie ā€œHis Majestyā€ over ā€œStage Door Johnny(Princequillo)/Never Bend/Nasrullahā€ very similar breeding to Pleasant Colony–who is my type. Oh did I say that already:D LOL!

Here’s two cool TB stallions:

"]Ink Jet

"]Loyal Tendencies

I really like the black one.

For those who mentioned the lack of damlines included in this thread, this mare is local to me. I personally know two of her five offspring (different sires) and both competed to fairly high levels and have strong sporthorse phenotypes. I would love to track down the others to see how prepotent she really was.

http://www.pedigreequery.com/be+my+tune

Thanks for all the replies!

This mare just arrived at our place this morning…she was a giveaway on Canter. http://www.pedigreequery.com/jesters+court2

And this is our other new broodmare, just confirmed in foal to Artrageous:
http://www.pedigreequery.com/classie+diva

Here’s a horse of mine, and he’s pretty special. He’s a great example of a horse with Buckpasser, yes not terribly close, but easily identifiable Buckpasser traits. Plenty of jump, and always in style. Lots of quality breeding in this horse…

http://www.pedigreequery.com/pass+a+star

this is the pedigree on one of two 4 yr.olds i just bought.

http://www.pedigreequery.com/entire2

Speaking of mare lines, here is the mare who started it all for me.

www.pedigreequery.com/two+bitter

What you can’t see by looking at her pedigree was her exquisite beauty and athleticism.
I used to just stand and stare at her.
She has been dead now for nearly 21 yrs, and I miss her still.

My 2 year olds dam line

Hey all
my 2 year old is out of Aloha and by a TB mare Cash Lake. so far I totally love him but I am starting to have feet problems… Both pedigrees are online. I was wondering if anyone could tell me where the feet issue might come from… as for a sport horse. he jumps awesome! and is a great moving… He also has Storm Cat in his bloodline along with Secretariat. He has Sir Ivor x2. I don’t know much about the warmblood side but he is very cat like.

Thanks!

Actually, a whole lot of us like Frosty the Snowman because of the Diplomat Way. :wink: That’s a Bridlewood horse top to bottom. The horse in my profile is Erin’s Isle X Diplomat Way mare and Danny Robertshaw had a nice Diplomat Way son a few years ago. I’ve known of a few others in my history and most were pretty good over fences.

I’ve always wanted to see a Cobra King baby:

http://www.pedigreequery.com/cobra+king

Because the What a Pleasure line (including Farma Way) were just drop dead strip horses with some hunter connections (Texas Fuel). Diplomat Way appears to sire some jumping talent, Fabled Monarch was a big hunter stallion for years (owned by Warioto) and of course, Never Bend speaks for himself. So there are four solid hunter lines up close in that horse. I would love to see his offspring. Too bad he went to CA almost immediately and from ther to Canada (well, too bad for me, anyway)

I’m rather partial to this horse’s pedigree, but that’s because I bought him before he hit the yearling sales so I may be biased. :wink:

http://www.pedigreequery.com/throwing+copper2

Adding to Diplomat Way (very old and very hard to find) I now triple endorse Lido Palace. To bad he’s in Peru now. But there are still a few around since this season was his first down there.

The Fapps have been my favorite Mr. P’s forever, but another line I like is the Forty Niner line. Still hard to find because Forty Niner went to Japan early on, but if you look at horses like Peace Rules, Jules, Distorted Humor and Lido Palace, you can see there is a pretty distinctive hunter look, most especially in Peace Rules (hubba hubba). I can also add that the Lido Palace babies seem to be disproportionately freakishly good movers.