What colour could she be?

[ShortStory]

After reading the other thread about sabino and other patterns, I was wondering if anyone could give me an answer as to what might be going on with my 2012 (bay) filly Happy Dayz.
Breeding, she is by the stallion Cardento who is a grey and by Ojoysie a black KWPN.
She has a few grey hairs in her mane and a bunch on the underside of her tail. That being said I do not think she is going to go grey as I can’t find any other greying (though it is still a possibility).
She also has white on her bottom lip so I am wondering if she is sabino. When they have white on the lower lip does that automatically mean they are sabino?

Here are some photos of her (there are also photos of the dam, the sire and her full sibling, a black going grey colt):

https://www.facebook.com/media/set/?set=a.10151002528830298.784922.583815297&type=3

Hopefully you can get an idea by the photos that are in that album, I will take more tomorrow. There are pictures of the dam and sire in the album as well.
I should mention this is not a sales add, she is my keeper!
Thank you in advance

[Simkie]

She looks brown to me–but my “brown” meter is admittedly a little questionable, so hopefully JB checks in here, as she is the brown expert

[ShortStory]

Thanks! I am really hope JB will come and give me answers I was just thinking she was a bay with some kind of sabino going on. I am just curious as I think that the genetics behind them are cool! I also have a rabicano mare which i think is really neat (she might be brown).

[Simkie]

FWIW, I think JB called my mare frame with her lower lip white, but she’s a little different than your girl. I don’t have any great pics of her online but you can at least get an idea here.

I also thought sabino with all the white, but apparently that’s not the only gene that causes such markings.

[JB]

I really think she’s black, and the “brown” pictures are of her faded. However, she’d be an interesting one to test. Her head shot just looks very much like a black, especially her muzzle. Even in her 'brown" pictures, her head does not look like what I’d expect a brown to look like ,but what I’d expect a faded black to look like. The problem is that I’ve seen a picture of a tested brown horse who was pretty much jet black LOL However, I did not see a picture of that horse in the faded timeframe, so I can’t compare that one to this one. I do think black for this one.

As for the white - very much Splash due to the horizontal nature of the LH sock in particular, but all the white socks in general, and likely Sabino putting some jaggedness on the edges.

Simkie - I don’t remember your mare off hand (sorry!) but I wouldn’t have called her Frame based on lower lip white. She might have something else going on that might have caused me to think frame, but not that

And you’re right in your “apparently” Splash loves to put bottom-heavy markings on horses,and behaves very much as if a given body part was dipped in white paint, which gives the horizontal look to leg white, even if the edges themselves are not smooth, and gives a bottom-heavy appearance to face white.

[furlong47]

I think people are looking at the mare? It’s the foal in the photos closer to the bottom that you’re curious about, correct?

[JB]

Ok, you’ll have to clarify which foal, as I see an obviously bay one, though I think you might be referring to the second one, which is a black foal I’m 99% certain will gray.

https://sphotos-a.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ash4/380976_10151002529560298_716504672_n.jpg

[Galileo1998]

Based on the six grey foals I have raised so far, I would say the foal in those pictures will grey.

[ShortStory]

[QUOTE=furlong47;6957299]
I think people are looking at the mare? It’s the foal in the photos closer to the bottom that you’re curious about, correct?[/QUOTE]

Thank you, I guess I should clarify, the mare I believe is true black, she has not faded since those pictures in 2011 before I owned her. The black going grey colt is in the album as he is a full sibling to the filly I am questioning about…

The bay filly is the one that I am wondering about, you might not be able to see it fully, but the tail is grey underneath and the mane has a few grey hairs. Thanks again, sorry I thought I had mentioned it was the bay filly, I was confused by the brown discussion.

[JB]

So it’s this filly you’re asking about?
https://sphotos-b.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-snc7/417656_10151934653845298_1146689766_n.jpg

Any white/silver hairs in her tail at this point are very typical baby flaxen, which 99% of the time disappears within a couple of years, and 99.999% of the time by the time they are fully adults.

I actually do think she’s brown. She may also be homozygous brown, as it’s theorized by researchers, and I’m seeing more tested ones, that AtAt is lighter than Ata. I’m seeing AtAt horses who actually look very much like “mahogany bay” which is really throwing a wrench in things LOL

[grayarabpony]

@JB;6957260

Simkie - I don’t remember your mare off hand (sorry!) but I wouldn’t have called her Frame based on lower lip white. She might have something else going on that might have caused me to think frame, but not that

Sabino does that, right?

[JB]

It can, as well as Splash.

[ShortStory]

Here I took more photos of her tail today, originally I thought it was just the baby tail as you said JB but I have never seen one so grey underneath, and it seems to be growing more grey hairs. Here are the new photos:

https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=10152798665330298&set=a.10151002528830298.784922.583815297&type=3&theater

https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=10152798665500298&set=a.10151002528830298.784922.583815297&type=3&theater

[mikali]

I seem to remember something about the “gulastra plume” being a lighter tail with the other typical black point on a bay. I believe it is a modification of the sabino gene - perhaps that is what you are seeing?

[JB]

That’s quite a lot, you’re right. And it’s quite gray.

Gulastra Plume is not currently thought to have a link to Sabino, and it tends to be a lot more silvery as opposed to looking so gray.

There is quite a bit of evidence now that Sabino (and maybe even Splash) can cause some “color shifting” in the mane, tail, body color, or some combination. Given she’s probably at least Splash, maybe also Sabino, that could be what’s going on. That would be very cool if she keeps the lightness

[ShortStory]

thanks everyone! JB I am hoping it will stay a fun colour, who do you think it came from, the dam?

[JB]

I can’t tell if Cardento has any face white, though it doesn’t look like he’s got any leg white. That said - don’t need to present Sabino or Splash for it to be present So in this case, it could have come from either parent.

[columbus]

I think bay and pretty sure she is not grey but we could be wrong on that. The tail could be rabicano white like a skunk tail but it could be “wild” bay as it seems more flaxeny I think that her legs in the foal pictures show that flaxeny baby color on her lower legs that goes away and is replaced by black…none of the older pictures show her legs clearly to see what has happened there. The presence of that flaxeny tan is making it less likely she is a grey as like a black foal looking smokey as a foal a bay going grey looks bay before it greys with black legs. I am guessing she might be a more wild type bay with more faded black markings on her legs and a more faded tail. Though wild bays http://www.whitehorseproductions.com/ecg_basics2.html tend to be more tan between their back legs and she seems red. Winter color and baby coats can be different coat to coat in young horses, it is a more adult color by about 3. Such a nice filly congratulations. PatO

[JB]

The tail is just much too gray to be rabicano or Gulastra Plume - those are white/silver. Even baby flaxen is much more blonde.

Flaxen doesn’t present on black-based colors.

This picture shows very high black points, and nearly 100% rules out any type of wild bay
https://sphotos-b.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ash3/578349_10152114440485298_1036669950_n.jpg

[ShortStory]

Thanks everyone, so we are thinking bay or brown, and splash and with maybe sabino? I can’t test her for the splash/ sabino, right?
Also, for the dam, if anything what would I test her for colour wise?

[QUOTE=columbus;6958690]
Such a nice filly congratulations. PatO[/QUOTE]

Thanks! I am actually super excited about her, she is everything I wanted and more! I am still on cloud 9 as I just purchased her dam (who I rode and have been trying to buy for the past few years). The filly is hilarious she has now jumped the 5ft by 6ft round bale and the gate, but very methodically Can’t wait to breed her then show her in the future