http://www.chronofhorse.com/article/search-phenomenal
Although I do agree with many of her points (many breeders are barn blind, many young horses poorly started), I found the article unfairly critical of North American breeders and glorifying European breeding to an extent. Frankly I’ve seen lots of imported “mediocrity” as well.
Loking for a prospect to do “Big International Things?”, expect a heartbreak by searching on FB. Of course people are rude on this media, they are one more step removed from a personal relationship with you. Internet cowboys ride the toughest broncs.
If I were looking for “Big International Things” I would probably already be entwined with about a half dozen or so top NA breeders of whom most know each other and what fits your particular cuppa’ best. A few of whom are on this board.
So I would probably rifle in on some well placed phone calls than I.S.O.'s on FB.
In her defense, I think she is referring to plenty of mediocrity in Europe as well.
I think she looked in the wrong places and got typical responses.
I know of several breeders within 2hrs of me that have dressage bloodlines that are European mares and imported semen. Some of the breeders are Dutch and German themselves…they were imported.
If I was going to find a young horse of international potential, I know of many places to look and would not place a ISO add. Probably because I wouldn’t want to deal with just everyone.
And I would probably buy a foal or yearling as most really good pedigrees are sold at an early age in NA. That is one bonus of shopping in Europe, there is more decent bloodlines at the “just under saddle” stage.
But, most horses that show outstanding potential are also spoken for early in Europe or have large price tags associated with them, after all, there is many more trained eyes and good riders to make those assessments. You tend to get what you pay for in Europe, they know their horses. Over here often people do not know what they are looking at.
She has many accurate points including the numbers and ease of visiting many farms. But the shot at “most” breeders not breeding for the top of the sport makes me think she doesn’t know where to find the top breeders. She should not have bothered with the average breeder. That may be one of the biggest faults of serious NA breeders, not having a pipeline to the serious riders.
I saw her original post on Facebook when she was looking for a horse. Some of the responses were… unrealistic! I don’t think many people really understand what an international prospect looks like! I’ve bred some nice horses, but have no crazy pretensions that they are international quality horses.
OTOH - that is what you get when you make an open “looking for” on Facebook! There is NO WAY she should have compared that kind of “shopping” to a shopping trip to Europe where an agent has already sorted through the “chaff” and limits what the shopper looks at. If she had posted a similar “looking for” post on a European FB forum, I’m guessing it would have been similar - a thousand responses and perhaps one or two valid prospects.
I actually responded to her FB posting and suggested she talk to some of the well known breeders and trainers in the US (such as DG Bar) and pointed out that these kind of breeders do NOT spend any time on FB - if you want to talk to them, you pick up the phone and call them.
I thought it was a negative article toward US breeders, it kind of made me sad to read it. We do have some great horses and breeders in this country. Of course, we also have a LOT of breeders who are breeding for the more typical rider - the AA or the “local” trainer - and those riders generally aren’t looking for (and are not capable of riding) the international horse. That is not a bad thing - that is what the market needs and supports! Very few riders have the money and ability for the international horse - that is reality in ALL countries.
In Europe they breed a lot of “not so special” horses too. One big difference in Europe - culling is much more open. If a horse doesn’t make the grade, there is no pressure to “treat them well and find them a home” - they are gonzo. Either sell them cheap down the road, or they become horsie burger. That just doesn’t happen in the US.
I agree with what stoicfish and MysticOakRanch have stated above.
I think however that what she expresses in her blog represents quite accurately what the market is in NA for someone shopping. There are more and more very good breeders, but they remain few and far between. So when you are “shopping” without having any contact, you will be burried under hundreds of offers of average and below average horses, all of which are sold as exceptionnal international prospects. It can be discouraging for a buyer to try to find the very few that worth a shot in this mass of overevaluated and overpriced prospects. Same thing, of course, can be said of Europe if you try to buy without contacts.
As I have said before to illustrate my point, when you contact a breeder in Europe, who have already produced many international performers and who produces 50 foals in a season, he will tell you that he may have 5 exceptionnal prospects, 10 good prospects, 25 average prospects and 10 bad horses. Of the 5 exceptionnal prospects, maybe 1 or 2 will make it to the top. Now often, if you contact a breeder in North America who has never produced an International performer and produces 5 foals in the same year, he will have 3 exceptionnal fei prospects, 1 very good prospect and one just above average. In fact, the realistic proportion of very good horses you would expect from a very good breeding program look much more like the proportions achieved by the european breeder than the american breeder in that exemple.
I am sure that most of american breeders promote their horses in good faith. But their is not many people here that understand what realy is a serious prospect for the highest levels, and breeders easily become barn blind.
And then there’s always “that’s something unknown” factor the really good ones always have and sometimes comes from who knows where. Then the prospect needs to land in the hands of trainers that understand them and are able to develop that talent to the full. It really is a crap shoot.
[QUOTE=Forte;8521447]
I found the article unfairly critical of North American breeders and glorifying European breeding to an extent.[/QUOTE]
I’m local to her and chuckled when I read the blog. There are probably 6-8 dressage breeders (maybe more) within a 2-3 hour drive from her that breed on that level or have customers that breed on that level. A call to any of them would have been more productive than her ISO ad. Regardless, many of these breeders, based on their reputations, have long sold their top prospects to well-known trainers, and if not, are developing the horses themselves. Here, and in Europe, the top horses typically don’t hang around with their breeders until they are 4-5 years old. It’s possible that a 4-5yo international quality horse is still at the breeders, but it takes work to find it.
Posting an ISO ad on FB these days amounts to shopping for this year’s designer clothes at a thrift shop - again, sure you might find something, but you’re going to have to look through a lot of other stuff first. Too many buyers want the “Amazon Prime experience;” last I checked, they don’t sell young international dressage horses.
A group of local breeders attended the American Hanoverian Society’s annual meeting in Wellington a few weeks ago. Christine Traurig and Jan Ebeling spoke during one of the sessions. Both commented on how competitive the market for top prospects is, especially in Europe. Christine, who is USDF’s Young Dressage Horse Training Coach, handed out her contact information and welcomed breeders to send her information about their top prospects. If I bred dressage horses and I had a top prospect, I’d be sending out information to her before responding to an ISO ad.
In any case, her blog did initiate many conversations among local breeders. Most have concluded that she doesn’t need to rely on income from local breeders to develop their young dressage horses. Fortunately or unfortunately, she’s now under the spotlight to see how successful she is with producing the young horse she bought and any she imports in the future.
considering there are, like, four farms within a 100 mile radius of LS that i know personally are producing high caliber horses, i had to chuckle. i agree, trawling on FB for UL prospects is like trawling the ocean for cats.
and then, near where i am, there are a few small farms that breed 1 or 2 foals a year that are such good quality that their foals sell in utero and the breeders have to keep up with inquiries/requests on the next pairing.
carry on!
The other thing that struck me is that she complains that many of the North American based horses are priced too high. Well her FB post basically said her budget was unlimited, so I don’t think she should be surprised that the people who responded has their horses priced extremely high.
I have recently been in the horse market as well and I posted an ISO ad on the same FB group. I also got TONS of responses pretty much all of which didn’t fit the description of what I was looking for in the ad (small, must be KWPN, GOV or Hanoverian registered, must be located in Ontario or Quebec). You wouldn’t believe the number of messages I got about Connemara pony crosses or 17 hand draft crosses located in the US! In the end, I ended up finding a breeder because I saw an ad for horse that really appealed to me but was already sold. I contacted the seller anyways and told her what I was looking for and she told me she had the perfect horse! Drove 6 hours on Saturday to see him, made an offer and he’s being vetted today!
I am not even a breeder and I had to roll my eyes…I barely prevented them from getting stuck in the back of my head.
[QUOTE=Forte;8522078]
The other thing that struck me is that she complains that many of the North American based horses are priced too high. Well her FB post basically said her budget was unlimited, so I don’t think she should be surprised that the people who responded has their horses priced extremely high.
I have recently been in the horse market as well and I posted an ISO ad on the same FB group. I also got TONS of responses pretty much all of which didn’t fit the description of what I was looking for in the ad (small, must be KWPN, GOV or Hanoverian registered, must be located in Ontario or Quebec). You wouldn’t believe the number of messages I got about Connemara pony crosses or 17 hand draft crosses located in the US! In the end, I ended up finding a breeder because I saw an ad for horse that really appealed to me but was already sold. I contacted the seller anyways and told her what I was looking for and she told me she had the perfect horse! Drove 6 hours on Saturday to see him, made an offer and he’s being vetted today![/QUOTE]
I really agree with you when I was selling my horse I was also looking for ISO posts and it was amazing what people offered in response to the original quest. In fact thats how I sold my horse. I did answer to somebody who described something like my horse in her ISO ad and it worked out very well. I have no idea why people offer their yearlings if somebody is looking for a 1st level horse… I think that does not really help the american market. I dont think its a horse problem I think breeders need to market their horses different
I have trouble reading any of her blogs and most blogs on COTH, lately. Typically it is pros extolling their riding prowess or telling us how they are so awesome. The blog mentioned in the OP- I could barely get through it for the reasons stated by other posters. I read it waiting in line for my kid to get out of school.
Facebook? really? Why did she think that would work? LOL.
She should have her own connections, right? Many times the best horses never hit official sales pages. I bought two this way.
What Bent Hickory, MysticOak and Stoicfish stated. Not much more to add, other than it’s rather sad that Ms. Sprieser, a professed professional, did not have a clue how to search for a top prospect here.
I also found it surprising that a professionnal looking for a top international prospect found no better way to shop than through an ISO post on Facebook. I don’t think I would have taken such a request seriously. Maybe it also had something to do with the responses she received.
[QUOTE=Cumano;8522639]
I also found it surprising that a professionnal looking for a top international prospect found no better way to shop than through an ISO post on Facebook. I don’t think I would have taken such a request seriously. Maybe it also had something to do with the responses she received.[/QUOTE]
My thought was that she did it premeditatively knowing she’d get the responses she did just so could turn around and complain on her blog about trying to find a prospect in NA/via the interwebz.
Buried in the comments is a link to the horse she bought, Hurricane by Don Tango B:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=shkfFGXbsXo&feature=youtu.be
It would be insulting both to breeders and to her own intellect if she actually thought the heaps of unsuitable responses to her facebook ISO post were from good, knowledgeable breeders, but frankly I also feel like the whole thing was just a stunt for the explicit purpose of getting bad responses and being able to write a snarky blog like this. Her responses to breeders who did contact her were pretty unprofessional as well.
[QUOTE=LarkspurCO;8522816]
Buried in the comments is a link to the horse she bought, Hurricane by Don Tango B:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=shkfFGXbsXo&feature=youtu.be[/QUOTE]
Not exactly what I expected to see when the phrases “international prospect” “exceptional gaits” and “unlimited budget” were being thrown around, if I’m being honest.
[QUOTE=epowers;8522836]
Not exactly what I expected to see when the phrases “international prospect” “exceptional gaits” and “unlimited budget” were being thrown around, if I’m being honest.[/QUOTE]
i think this video of him is more flattering:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JWA1o41stM0
he’s green, but i see potential - few seconds in the video i linked you can see a good bit of adjustability for such a green horse… his trot will only get better. however, you can get that stateside as well. certainly not something you have to travel all the way to europe to find. it’ll be nice to see what she can do with him.
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