What does "Needs confident rider" mean?

[Mondo]

I have seen some very nice FEI-level warmbloods for sale recently at relatively reasonable prices (Under $30k). They are sound, not too old and good movers. They have all had a line near the bottom of the description which reads: Priced to sell because needs confident rider.

What does that mean? He’s explosive and will kill an ammy? He is spooky and gets his confidence from his rider? He’s a swell horse, but take him to a show and make sure your insurance is up to date?

What does that mean to you?

[Tanny98]

Could mean any of those suggestions. I would just have to ask, to see which it is and if it’s something I can handle.

[atr]

His last owner will be happy to tell you when she gets out of hospital…

[OneTwoMany]

I would assume the horse has some sort of quirk about them that makes them unsuitable for all but the most experienced ammy. Maybe it is a spook, maybe it is nervousness, maybe they like to drop a shoulder or get a little light in the front end, maybe they like to bolt, etc. All traits that require a confident, knowledgeable rider to work through. Often these horses are priced cheaply relative to their quality and justifiably so as their addressable audience is limited.

No way to know what the horse’s quirk might be until you ask.

[KBC]

@atr

His last owner will be happy to tell you when she gets out of hospital…

:lol::lol::lol:

[Toblersmom]

Could be any of those, could also be has a really extravagant sort of way of moving that some would find unsettling, maybe has “argumentative” moments about some things. I knew one horse a while ago that was really quite a sane, non-spooky and cooperative little guy (at least I found him to be so), but he would tend to get a little nervous and speedy at the canter or doing anything with poles or jumping type exercises. A lot of riders the barn tried to put on him would get frightened by that, clench their legs and grab at his face, and then he’d REALLY get nervous and speedy only now his nose was in the air and his back was hollow so steering wasn’t exactly the best so the riders would get more and more panicky and he’d be all “Holy Moses, it IS the apocalypse!” For whatever reason, I never found him scary. He’d get a little rushy and I’d just sit back and think of my seat and legs of great big bean bags and ask him to come back with some gentle half halts. I loved him to pieces, but I’m sure if he was advertised he would be flagged in some way as “needs confident rider with quiet seat and steady hands.”

[Dutchmare433]

The combination of the price and “needs confident rider” for the described horse(s) makes me think it’d be a fire breathing dragon. An FEI horse who is a little spooky or a little quirky is not going to cost $30k, even though it might need (or want) a confident rider. One who is naughty (crazy?) enough to warrant that sub 30k price tag, I’d imagine has a few screws loose.

[x-halt-salute]

I knew a very handsome FEI warmblood gelding who was priced in that ballpark… because he developed a rearing problem, and after a significant investment in veterinary diagnostics to rule out pain and sending him out to a different trainer to no avail the owner decided to cut her losses.

“Needs a confident rider” can mean a thousand things, but when the low, low prices start sounding too good to be true I start to suspect that it can be narrowed down to the more extreme end of the spectrum.

[JLR1]

Needs confident rider = horse has “issues” such as bolting, bucking, rearing etc. :lol:

[Foxtrot_s]

Or maybe the owner does not want a nervous/beginner/incompetent rider on the horse and would sooner let it go to a suitable home than ask the big buck.

There are horses who are confidence givers, and horses who are confidence takers and need a confident rider to bring
out their potential.

I’d not pass on going to see such a horse up but the ad would weed out the unsuitable types. Selling horses takes up enough time as it is.

[Sannois]

@atr

His last owner will be happy to tell you when she gets out of hospital…

LMAO!!! Kind of what I was thinking.

[CHT]

I have a horse I bought for lessons that I would say “needs a confident rider”. Not that she is a nut, but she loses confidence quickly with a wishy washy rider and starts to lose her power steering and gets chippy to the jumps. She doesn’t even need a skilled rider…just a rider that thinks they are skilled.

In general though, I would take that to mean the horse is spooky/jumpy, but best to ask for clarification as you just don’t know.

[Dark_horse17]

To me, it means that a follow-up conversation (and a meeting in person) is needed …

It truly could be code for any manner of behavior. And, even after you’ve determined the worst in your head, it is truly up to the poster’s interpretation of what a “confident rider” is.

It could be as dramatic as you’re imagining, or as simple as a horse the just needs a reassuring rider who can bolster their confidence in spooky corners, when learning new movements, or on the trail… or even an assertive leader when working on the ground.

[pluvinel]

This thread is interesting. I am not selling any horses at this moment, but I would be tempted to put “needs confident rider” in my sales ad for what would be a perfectly sane, sound horse.

Why? Because I like hot, sensitive, self-propelled horses. And to be fair to the horse, I would want the horse to go to a home where a rider is a confident rider and was not intimidated by a highly responsive (some would say reactive) horse.

So, I go back to my fundamental belief that it is better to vet the seller than to vet the horse.

The seller knows the horse. The seller has lived with the horse and knows its quirks and idiosyncrasies. If the seller is an honest seller, he/she can tell you much more about the animal than a vet exam and one short point in time.

[AltersAreUs]

Needs a confident rider runs the gamut of “needs a rider who won’t get intimidated by a bit of naughtiness/ quickness/ insecurity” to “has launched more riders into orbit than NASA” . You need to talk to someone who knows the horse (and preferably NOT the person trying to sell it) to find out where on that spectrum the horse falls.

[Dutchmare433]

@pluvinel

This thread is interesting. I am not selling any horses at this moment, but I would be tempted to put “needs confident rider” in my sales ad for what would be a perfectly sane, sound horse.

Why? Because I like hot, sensitive, self-propelled horses. And to be fair to the horse, I would want the horse to go to a home where a rider is a confident rider and was not intimidated by a highly responsive (some would say reactive) horse.

So, I go back to my fundamental belief that it is better to vet the seller than to vet the horse.

The seller knows the horse. The seller has lived with the horse and knows its quirks and idiosyncrasies. If the seller is an honest seller, he/she can tell you much more about the animal than a vet exam and one short point in time.

It isn’t the inclusion of that phrase alone, it’s that phrase (or a variety of other key words) coupled with a price that’s too good to be true. The price doesn’t drop by 1/2 or 2/3 just because the horse gets a little hot or sensitive.

If there were no other red flags, I’d certainly enquire for clarification about why the horse needs a confident rider. And I totally agree that vetting the seller is just as important as vetting the horse.

[Edre]

I think in a lot of ads “needs confident rider” can be used to weed out people who are insecure, anxious, or timid riders. It may not necessarily be that a rider need be “confident” but that a rider should not be tense or timid. (And if you say “Needs relaxed rider” or “doesn’t thrive with tense rider” people are generally, in my experience, less self aware to those things and can’t accurately self-represent.)

On the other hand, I’ve also known of an ad that had this phrase and the horse was willing, eager-to-please, and very ridable in terms of movements/cues, but had the tendency to spook/fixate on things that a rider needed to be able to work past.

[LilyandBaron]

Totally agree the phrase alone may not be a deterrent, but a lowball price relative to all other attributes is a definite red flag! What’s the adage about pick two of three qualities in a horse: sound, sane, or cheap. If it’s sound and sane, it’s not cheap. If it’s sane and cheap, it’s not sound. And in this case, if it’s sound and cheap, it’s not sane.

[ladyj79]

That in conjunction with price also means it’s not good enough for a serious competing professional to be interested in.

[OneTwoMany]

I agree with @Dutchmare433. If the horse is being offered by sale by a professional that has a significant amount of experience selling horses, the phase “needs a confident rider” means just that. The horse has a quirk that makes his marketability limited. He needs a very experienced ammie or pro and the price reflects that fact. Professional sellers know what they have and they price accordingly. You aren’t likely to find an under-priced horse in those situations.

If the horse is being marketed by an owner with little experience in selling, the horse could be priced correctly or not.

This is a bit nuanced, but if the horse was only slightly naughty, fresh, quick, etc. there are other ways to express this in an advert. Such as “horse prefers a confident rider that can provide a supportive leg” or “horse gets along best with a confident rider that doesn’t clamp in front of a fence”. There are many options to express mild quirks other than to say “horse needs a confident rider.”

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