What does "Needs confident rider" mean?

[right_horse_at_the_right_time]

I would say he isn’t a caretaker (not for any evil reason) and needs someone who will rise to a challenge and say no, you’re wrong, do it my way or we’re going to get hurt.

Also, see: no give backs :).

it would weed me out. Not because I think I am not a confident person, but because I’m not a confident rider and want a horse who is smart, uses his powers for good, and wants to keep himself between me and the ground and generally knows how to do that to a T.

I don’t want the drama of a horse who needs to be piloted every second with dire consequences for momentary lapses in skill, judgement, or confidence.

[DancingArabian]

My opinion. A confident rider is able to maintain their cool despite the antics of the horse, so the horse is likely a hot, reactive mount. An unconfident rider would get nervous and frazzled and the horse would feed off that energy and escalate the problem.

[SuzieQNutter]

To me it means a horse psyched up on grain.

Stars was advertised as that. I was told he had to be ridden at least 3 days aweek. He always bucks on the lunge. He jumps to buck when ridden.

Here - quiet as a mouse. Can be ridden after 3 weeks off. He has NEVER bucked on the lunge and he is so perfect in the arena I now call him Stars TPH. Stars The perfect horse .

He no longer has ulcers and he is fat without grain.

[CanteringCarrot]

@ladyj79

That in conjunction with price also means it’s not good enough for a serious competing professional to be interested in.

Kind of thinking this also.

I have 2 horses that I think would fall into the category of needing a confident rider:

One is a stubborn WB that gets along well with my husband because this horse requires strength, and someone more stubborn than him :lol: He is also a big mover/not easy to sit. If you are not confident in what you are asking he will escalate. If a confident rider is on him he packs around quite nice. If you are not confident, next think you know he’s spooking, stopping, kicking out at indecisive aids, and may pop his front end off the ground (very small rear) because he knows he can intimidate certain riders and get away with it. To me, he’s not a bad horse, but he’s an active horse. You cannot be insecure or a passenger on him. Pros that have ridden this horse have liked him very much.

The other is a PRE that is very sensitive. He is sensible but requires a rider with body awareness. He’s also quite looky so you need to be able to have a sense of humor because he spooks at his own shadow or droppings (yes, his vision is fine). I don’t know if he gets bored, isn’t sure, or is a joker sometimes. He can make quick movements and is a thinker. I think a less confident rider may be ok, but I also think he’d take advantage with the spooking thing…which could scare off less confident ammy in some cases. Oddly enough, he’s my favorite horse.

So those are my 2 examples, and what I might think of when a horse needs a confident rider. Or the horse may still be insecure in its training and just need more miles from someone that is confident and skilled.

Of course this is horse sales so the horse could very well be a rearer that can also buck his rider to the moon out of no where. It’s just such a broad phrase. I think most buyers would shy away due that statement, it could mean so much.

[Sannois]

@CHT

I have a horse I bought for lessons that I would say “needs a confident rider”. Not that she is a nut, but she loses confidence quickly with a wishy washy rider and starts to lose her power steering and gets chippy to the jumps. She doesn’t even need a skilled rider…just a rider that thinks they are skilled.

In general though, I would take that to mean the horse is spooky/jumpy, but best to ask for clarification as you just don’t know.

Yes this too. My old TB would shut down with a rider who did not ride him. He needed the confidence.
He was not bold himself. in fact he jumped around a training level Cross country course once with my old trainer, with me, I was not near as confident with anything over easy novice fences, and he would have stops.
If I was not sure, he was not going to do it. So yeah, could be many reasons someone says horse needs a confident rider.

[Guyot]

Hmmm so interesting to me, we have one that will be coming for sale, parents got divorced and life went topsy turvy. I had planned to write needs a confident rider in the ad due to his very big engine from behind… now thinking that is not what I should be writing!

He is a very sensitive boy and is a definite FEI prospect, if now a smidge late in his training. 9 yrs and changes had been started but training stopped due to divorce at the worst possible time due to the families finances. I’m just bringing him back to work for them and one quick lunge day and back on no issues. He doesn’t spook, he is a darling round the barn, good mover and a rare but desirable breed.

Im worried timid Ammys will show up who will scare him and be a bad match and or experience for him. But honestly he just needs and empathic rider who doesn’t mind a very forward thinking and going horse. He is reasonably priced due to situation…

So sad to think my choice of words can create a misrepresentation that does a disservice to this kind and generous horse. I don’t sell horses as I’m horrible at it and doing this a favor for a good friend. Would love some better ways to phrase if anyone has a moment! TIA

[BarnKid7]

Honestly, Id just go see that horse and take it on a test ride and see if you can handle it. A confident rider is someone who isn’t afraid of the horse and someone who isn’t afraid to fall of the horse.

[CFFarm]

Could mean a lost of different things as mentioned but to me it says an “over horsed” rider.

[js]

The first thing I think of if I see it, means a horse that is too much handle for a less experienced rider. Has some spook, buck, lacks good training or good manners. Could really be anything. I often think its a nice way of saying the horse has some issues and isn’t for everyone but really it could many anything; however, its usually a turn off for me to pursue further if I’m looking.

[Glyphica]

Oh wow. I’ve always read that to mean the horse needs a rider who isn’t nervous or spooky, not ne essarily a horse with issues. Good to know for future ads!

[Glyphica]

@Guyot

Hmmm so interesting to me, we have one that will be coming for sale, parents got divorced and life went topsy turvy. I had planned to write needs a confident rider in the ad due to his very big engine from behind… now thinking that is not what I should be writing!

He is a very sensitive boy and is a definite FEI prospect, if now a smidge late in his training. 9 yrs and changes had been started but training stopped due to divorce at the worst possible time due to the families finances. I’m just bringing him back to work for them and one quick lunge day and back on no issues. He doesn’t spook, he is a darling round the barn, good mover and a rare but desirable breed.

Im worried timid Ammys will show up who will scare him and be a bad match and or experience for him. But honestly he just needs and empathic rider who doesn’t mind a very forward thinking and going horse. He is reasonably priced due to situation…

So sad to think my choice of words can create a misrepresentation that does a disservice to this kind and generous horse. I don’t sell horses as I’m horrible at it and doing this a favor for a good friend. Would love some better ways to phrase if anyone has a moment! TIA

Maybe that he’s a super cool guy. Safe, but with a very forward brain. Needs someone happy with a horse with a serious go button. Positive hot without being dangerous or a spooky. Price reflects owner’s major life change.

Then really vet the buyers to make sure they want a truly forward horse, and not just one that isn’t lazy. A lot of the lower level AAs I teach think they want a FORWARD horse until they actually ride one.

[outerbanks77]

@Guyot

Hmmm so interesting to me, we have one that will be coming for sale, parents got divorced and life went topsy turvy. I had planned to write needs a confident rider in the ad due to his very big engine from behind… now thinking that is not what I should be writing!

I think something similar to what you wrote here is fine. If I see a horse listed at what seems to be a very cut-rate price, and says “needs confident rider” I usually move on, but if there’s more description such as “not a mean bone in his body, but needs a rider to help give confidence because he is still green” or “no buck or bolt, but needs a confident rider because he is very forward” then I might still be interested (speaking as a somewhat confident ammy with 20+ years experience who does not enjoy bucking or rearing due to lack of butt velcro and general self-preservation instinct).

[pluvinel]

@Guyot

…

He is a very sensitive boy and is a definite FEI prospect, if now a smidge late in his training. 9 yrs and changes had been started but training stopped due to divorce at the worst possible time due to the families finances. I’m just bringing him back to work for them and one quick lunge day and back on no issues. He doesn’t spook, he is a darling round the barn, good mover and a rare but desirable breed.

Im worried timid Ammys will show up who will scare him and be a bad match and or experience for him. But honestly he just needs and empathic rider who doesn’t mind a very forward thinking and going horse. He is reasonably priced due to situation…

So sad to think my choice of words can create a misrepresentation that does a disservice to this kind and generous horse. I don’t sell horses as I’m horrible at it and doing this a favor for a good friend. Would love some better ways to phrase if anyone has a moment! TIA

This is exactly the sort of horse I like and that I would write “needs confident rider” in a sale ad…for the reasons stated above.

So, what does the COTH advise?

What does a seller put in an ad for an honest but sensitive horse? A horse that cannot tolerate clueless aids, or clueless rider? A horse that requires equestrian tact and self aware rider? How do you say that no control freaks need apply?

[Charanga2011]

Whenever I see that phrase, if I am really interested in the horse I will contact the seller and ask them to clarify. Needs a confident rider can mean quite a lot of different things. My mare now said needs very experienced rider, and she does. She is quirky, sensitive, and has a tendency to get very hot. If you clamp your legs or get heavy in her mouth, you are in for a not so fun ride.

[Sticky_Situation]

I think it’s all about getting more information on the horse and finding out why they said that in the ad (although if the price is suspiciously low … in the horse world things that seem too good to be true usually are!).

I’m an ammy, but would not be bothered by horse with some spookiness, or one that gets a bit hot, or one that is very green … but I have no desire to ride something that is actively going to try to launch me into the rafters every time I get on.

[fordtraktor]

Huge difference between a $30k FEI PROSPECT needing a confident rider (would assume it’s a typical green horse that doesn’t have that “born broke” personality that your average rides-twice-a-week ammy can develop) vs. a $30k current FEI horse (would assume a significant behavior issue because those horses are more $$).

On the other hand, it could mean the horse is priced low because of its behavior and not its lack of soundness, which is the other reason trained FEI horses go cheap so there’s that positive. And at this point in my life, I’m not looking for either behavior issues or soundness issues! Or the behavior could be the result of an undiagnosed unsoundness which is often the case…

But still, on either type it is important to ask much more specifically about behavior/the kind of ride the horse is because you never know exactly what vague statements like those mean. a call to discuss facts will get you a lot farther than making assumptions.

[fordtraktor]

@pluvinel

This is exactly the sort of horse I like and that I would write “needs confident rider” in a sale ad…for the reasons stated above.

So, what does the COTH advise?

What does a seller put in an ad for an honest but sensitive horse? A horse that cannot tolerate clueless aids, or clueless rider? A horse that requires equestrian tact and self aware rider? How do you say that no control freaks need apply?

I would write “sensitive ride, will thrive with a soft, tactful rider with independent seat”

I am that kind of rider but wouldn’t necessarily consider myself “confident” in that I no longer want to deal with bucking/rearing/bolting or anything that requires me to have a lasseiz faire attitude toward self-preservation…

[ladyj79]

@fordtraktor

Huge difference between a $30k FEI PROSPECT needing a confident rider (would assume it’s a typical green horse that doesn’t have that “born broke” personality that your average rides-twice-a-week ammy can develop) vs. a $30k current FEI horse (would assume a significant behavior issue because those horses are more $$).

yes, the latter is what I thought we were chatting about. And yes, I assume significant…drama.

[fordtraktor]

@ladyj79

yes, the latter is what I thought we were chatting about. And yes, I assume significant…drama.

Yes, I am just surprised the OP has seen so many for sale. I have never seen a sound, good-moving FEI horse for sale for $30k in the US let alone quite a few of them…at least not any time in recent memory. Even an off-breed poor mover is likely going to cost you more if it is currently going FEI respectably, I would think.

[ladyj79]

@fordtraktor

Yes, I am just surprised the OP has seen so many for sale. I have never seen a sound, good-moving FEI horse for sale for $30k in the US let alone quite a few of them…at least not any time in recent memory. Even an off-breed poor mover is likely going to cost you more if it is currently going FEI respectably, I would think.

yeah that was part of why I said it also likely wasn’t very good :lol::lol: I wonder if it was an FEI horse or a horse who “schools FEI”. Know a woman with a stallion whom she repeatedly tells people is “schooling FEI” who has never shown above training, but is always “working on half step” thus obvs making him an FEI horse.