@ladyj79 I know, right? That’s not piaffe, your horse is jigging because you are pulling on its face and kicking it at the same time…if it wasn’t such a saint it would be rearing (no, not levade).
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I would say “Lancelot is sadly offered for sale due to owner’s changing life circumstances. Kindly started with solid basics, but green for age and in need of a refresher. Forward, big mover, needs a rider who enjoys a horse with a real motor. No bolt, buck, rear, or spook, lovely ground manners, a barn favorite.”
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The phrase. “Honest but sensitive” is a very descriptive phrase. Few
“fancy” horses are really going to be a match for an insecure rider…
He needs an educated rider who is sure and confident in their aids and expectations.
I like “needs a confident rider” honestly as a good code for this horse needs someone experienced and not reactive. I’ve seen a lot of amateurs buy warmblood horses that were big horses, big movers, and had their confidence slowly erode because they were intimidated by the power, with the horse - who didn’t start naughty - getting naughty over time. My own mount is a pony that is an easy, casual ride for me, long rein, no worries, but she doesn’t take a joke and she’s reactive to people who wiggle.
That price on a youngish horse says that the FEI horse isn’t going to the top with a professional and also that they need to move the horse quickly but it might be good enough for a rider like me who is confident, patient, in no hurry, and has modest goals. It also says to me that by FEI they probably mean, “If the stars align perfectly for the right rider, on a day when the judge is tired and can barely see through the pouring rain, you might crack 60% at PSG” 
In Southern California, if a horse like that gets with an amateur who no longer wants to ride it, and it’s in a training barn, the bills easily are going to be in the $4k a month range - thus the faster it sells the more you will net. So sometimes in the very expensive barns you will find that the price is more negotiable than you might expect.
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A horse like this I would probably say in an ad is “For sale due to life circumstances and is a sensitive, forward-minded horse with a big engine who thrives with a calm rider with an independent seat”.
I think with any ads now days, people need to be more descriptive of the horse’s behaviours rather than trying to simplify by saying the type of rider they think the horse would suite. It’s not like we really have word limitations like in the past with print ads. One person might think experienced rider means someone who has ridden before, whereas someone else might think that means a near pro ride it is needed. Much better to just describe the horse’s temperament, rideability and experience and let people decide for themselves.
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Hmm. I have a coming 4 year old Hanoverian that I would say " needs a confident rider". I am an Ammy, and have done most of the work myself, so he isn’t unsafe. He is young, a bit of a looky lou, and with someone who will just go forward he is amazing. Light in the bridle, naturally balanced, good mover, and jumps cute too. But he needs someone that will not react or look at what he gets distracted by, but rather just quietly and firmly carries on with their plan. He is very sweet, no rear, but he is a young sensitive horse. Just not overly sensitive. He is perfect in my eyes. Why am I selling him again? Lol. I don’t know how to weed out the wrong type of rider other than saying that he needs a confident rider. Ideas?
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I think, again, its not a bad thing to say at all in and of itself. Unless, as in the context of the original anecdote, the horse is priced significantly under what he would otherwise be valued at if he weren’t probably equal parts crazy and untalented.
if, for instance, you were selling your guy for super cheap with the explanation being he needs a confident rider, it would demonstrate to many buyers that his talent and rideability weren’t sufficient to make up for his “quirkiness”.
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Definitely. As I have progressed further into the categories of old, slow, weak, distant from my glory days of regular riding, and generally a cowardly curmudgeon, I have tried very, very hard to avoid the phenomenon of biting off more than I can chew “because he’s so PRETTY,” and then letting a good horse go bad, that I have seen so often over the years. I realized the horse I was half-leasing was not, and would never be, the right fit for me when I realized I would not ask him for a simple canter unless all the stars were aligned (there was another person conspicuously “around” to call 911 if he was feeling cranky and fat old weak me couldn’t stick a minor tantrum, he’d been ridden the day before, he hadn’t been SpongeBobCrankyPants when asked for anything else that day, etc.). I think there’s an awful, awful lot of people who aren’t self-aware enough to come to that conclusion and step away.
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I think the phrase is just intended to eliminate casual or low skilled riders. As in, don’t come and try this horse then sue me when you come off…
This is more in lines with what I was thinking. “Needs confident rider”, to me, reads that if you are a beginner go away, he needs experience and someone who can actually ride. But, when putting “not suitable for beginners” in an add you are most assuredly going to get riders who are beginners but think higher of their riding and their capabilities. This at least attempts to weed that out.
My current horse is one where if you get nervous he gets nervous, he is very looky on the flat and while not dangerous someone who can’t take a joke with his antics will get worked up and that gets him worked up. I don’t think he is a difficult horse as long as one “holds his hand” past the scary stuff so to speak. His spooks (aka maybe snorting, stepping to the side, shuddering in place) aren’t dangerous. He isn’t a bolter. However, he would not do well with a nervous rider and they’d probably start to dislike him. I find the spooks silly and slightly amusing because I’m used to them. I’ve seen more novice riders say they never want to ride him again.
In situations with vague statements like this I think it is a “weed-out” comment that offers the opportunity for the confident to ask specifics. I do agree with some others here that posting a few more details would be ideal. Ie, for my horse above (who will never be sold) would be something like “needs confident rider as he can be a bit looky on the flat, but does not have a big spook. He does needs someone to reassure him it is ok and he will go back into work mode”.
I always thought of it as a tactful ride. My mare is forward, but not overly reactive BUT she does NOT tolerate fools well nor mistakes. She CANNOT take a joke (to steal one from the jumper side of things). So if for some reason I ever sold her I would say she needs a tactful rider.
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To me, the phrase “needs a confident rider” means the opposite of what most of you are saying.
For instance Rocket, the horse I rode as a teenager was an ex school-horse, we used him for beginner lessons, and my father (who rode about once a year) rode him. My father had taken riding lessons as a child, but was far from competent, but he was confident, and Rocket would give him a very agreeable trail ride.
But if you were approaching a jump, and were the least bit hesitant about it, he would stop at 2’6". If you approached a 3’6" jump with confidence , he would soar over it.
Same with dressage. If you believed that you and he could do a half pass, he would deliver a half pass (even if your aids were not technically perfect). If you were hesitant or unsure about how you asked, even if your aids were technically correct, you would get a sort of sideways wiggle.
With my now-retired Music, I can put literally anyone on her, and they will be safe. But if they are not confident, it doesn’t matter how hard they kick her, she won’t get out of a walk. With a confident rider, walk to canter transitions are easy, even when she is completely out of shape.
With my hotter horses, confidence is important, put competence is MORE important.
With horses like Music and Rocket confidence is more important than competence.
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Could mean all sorts of things as others have noted. If the horse in question happened to be of Jazz origin or a Sandro Hit then that would tell me all I need to know. Other than that, worth a call to discuss at least.
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Nothing here ^^^^ runs counter to any way I would define “confident”
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fordtraktor and ladyj - if I wrote quite a few of them, that was hyperbole. I can think of 3 that I’ve seen recently. All three of them had video and they were pretty darn fancy. All three of them were for sale from different trainers - but they were in barns that had other very high end horses for sale at the prices one would expect. (I am looking for a client at the present time, so have seen a LOT of ads.) I have no wish to share links for these particular ads, I was just sort of asking in the general sense. It has created a really nice discussion, so I’m glad I posted. FWIW, my client is NOT a confident rider, even though they are quite a skillful rider.
That’s interesting, as skill tends to breed confidence for most people.
As a potential buyer, if an ad creates more questions than it answers, I move on. IME, sellers who take time to give a detailed description of the horse are often really looking to make sure the horse gets paired with someone really suitable vs. just looking to sell the horse.
“Needs a confident rider” is almost like code for “ask me what this really means”. I’ve got a teenaged gelding in training who needs a confident rider - he’s a super laid back guy but has some old injuries and the road to straightness and correct movement has been long, so if you get up there and get jarred or overcorrect him when he loses his balance he’ll quickly lose confidence. Doesn’t do anything “bad”, no bolt, buck or rear, just gets speedy and worried. I could easily see him spiraling downward with someone who got flustered by that.
OTOH, I have another horse in training who “needs a confident rider” - a younger horse who has a lovely temperament but takes serious tact under saddle. He does not tolerate fools nor take kindly to mistakes and if your timing is poor or you get unbalanced he gets quite upset and tends to take the bit and bolt.
Two horses who need “confident” riders, but the two horses themselves couldn’t be more different.
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I’ve had a few horses that took time to bond and then became trusting of their rider. Takes time and consistency.
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This +1
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