Just what does it mean when ads list a horse as “own” son or daughter of so and so? I will admit I see this with Quarter Horses mostly. What significance, if any, does the term “own” have?
Usually that its a direct 1st generation son or daughter of that stallion. You see it a lot with quarter horse stallions, who are very well known.
Western terminology mostly.
What is should mean is that the ranch that stands the sire has bred, and has kept entire, a son of their stallion - the significance being that the son was as good if not better than his sire and would be in competition with his sire for mares - so potentially not a good business model, but the colt was that good.
However, it now gets bandied about without that significance.
It is a stupid expression, right up there with “fillycolt” “stud” and every single young horse being a “colt”. Heard mostly in “cowboy land” and especially at the auctions. :lol::lol:
A stupid expression to you apparently. But when you’ve heard it all your life I imagine it doesn’t seem “stupid”. I’ve never understood the sporthorse world intolerance for other discipline jargon.
Some sayings are just archaic. I didn’t grow up with the saying, but I learned from reading old racing literature that 100 years ago all young horses were referred to as “colts” it didn’t matter what sex it was. Which is where fillycolt comes from. Knowing that, it doesn’t surprise me that in some areas the phrase is still in use.
I know, right? “Stud” is another term for farm (an establishment, as a farm, in which horses are kept for breeding.) and used primarily in the UK. If it’s an intact male equine, it’s a stallion.
Would one assume, then, that there is an appreciable difference between a “son” and an “own son”. If so, what is it ?
English use of the word stud = “a group of animals, especially high quality horses, kept for breeding”
An establishment for breeding is a “Stud Farm”
Thanks everyone. Molly, your response was very helpful. So, if that were used properly today, technically there should be no “own daughter”, correct? Nor “own son” gelding. If I’m understanding properly, anyway.
If that breeder who has the stallion and also the son (the “own” son), what if he sells that son? Can the new owner call it an “own son” or not?
This is just something that I have been curious about for a long time, and would like to know the correct usage. I don’t breed QHs, but like to know these things.
Thanks, again.
So, if that were used properly today, technically there should be no “own daughter”, correct? Nor “own son” gelding. If I’m understanding properly, anyway.
I think an own daughter would be a mare that the stallion owner had bred and retained in their breeding program - but to be honest I’m not sure - I don’t think I’ve heard that term very much.
If that breeder who has the stallion and also the son (the “own” son), what if he sells that son? Can the new owner call it an “own son” or not?
Yes, he can still be referred to as an own son of FamousHorse.
I think the term was used back in the day of generational/foundation quarter horse breeders to denote a whole breeding program eg the “King” horses. You knew you were breeding to a colt (an own son) that had been deemed worthy by the Kings to be kept entire and not just a colt (a son) who happened to have King as his sire.
Own son or daughter refers to a horse that the stallion owner bred themselves - not just a son of the stallion.
[QUOTE=bugsynskeeter;6556648]
Own son or daughter refers to a horse that the stallion owner bred themselves - not just a son of the stallion.[/QUOTE]
That is indeed what the term should mean, and used to mean, good on you for knowing that! Few people seem to remember that meaning, though, and in the last few decades the usage has changed somewhat. Nowadays, in most cases the term “own son/daughter of (imaginary stallion) Big Daddy” simply means “sired by Big Daddy himself.” I agree that this sounds silly and unnecessary, at least until you begin investigating the actual pedigrees of horses described as “son of” or “daughter of” and discover that although the big name stallion does appear in the pedigree, it is NOT as the sire… but two, three, or even four generations back! It can be a bit disconcerting to be offered a horse described as “own son of” a stallion that has been dead for fifty years - I’ve had that happen, and no, it wasn’t a miracle of reproductive technology and frozen semen with extraordinary longevity, it was just a case of wishful thinking. The stallion referenced was actually SIX generations back.
As stated above it is used in the QH industry, and means the horse was bred by the stallion owner. That can mean a lot when the horse is coming from a ranch such as the 6666.
A direct son would be a horse that was the result of anyone breeding their mare to one of those stallions, which is self explanatory and doesn’t need to be stated.
It is a big pet peeve of mine when I hear every person selling a QH gelding that is by a stallion calling it an own son no matter where it came from.
Agree with previous posters. It use to mean a son of stallion X and bred by stallion X’s owners but now it seems to be used by many when they are actually just referring to a son whose sire just happens to be X . Sorta like trying to ride on the coat tails of dad, at least we see a lot of that here in cutting horse country. 
[QUOTE=ParadoxFarm;6556537]
Thanks everyone. Molly, your response was very helpful. So, if that were used properly today, technically there should be no “own daughter”, correct? Nor “own son” gelding. If I’m understanding properly, anyway.
If that breeder who has the stallion and also the son (the “own” son), what if he sells that son? Can the new owner call it an “own son” or not?
This is just something that I have been curious about for a long time, and would like to know the correct usage. I don’t breed QHs, but like to know these things.
Thanks, again.[/QUOTE]An own daughter is one bred and retained as a replacement broodmare. If she is an own daughter of my stallion and I sell her to you, she is then just a daughter of stallion. She is only an own daughter (and he an own son) with regards to her/his breeder. THIS is where people who have heard the term used and don’t understand what it means get it confused.
Thanks, all. All makes more sense now. I guess it’s just used very incorrectly a lot around here, which dumbs down the phrase altogether. But I appreciate everyone explaining that to me.
Hm. I’ve actually used it to mean the tail male descendent before, probably wrong, as in the own grandson being the son of the son of the stallion in question.
Used to mean something specific I guess and now it’s passed into common speech in certain circles, sort of like Kleenex becoming the generic term for tissues.
Ah, nice explanation by Grataan.
“Own son” or “own daughter” is misused as much as “half-brother/sister” when referencing horses by the same stallion but out of different mares… :eek:
[QUOTE=Kinsella;6556720]
“Own son” or “own daughter” is misused as much as “half-brother/sister” when referencing horses by the same stallion but out of different mares… :eek:[/QUOTE]
:yes::yes::yes:
I do not know if I have every seen it used correctly!
[QUOTE=Kinsella;6556720]
“Own son” or “own daughter” is misused as much as “half-brother/sister” when referencing horses by the same stallion but out of different mares… :eek:[/QUOTE]
can you explain misuse vs correct use of half-bro/sis?
