What is a "broke" horse?

[Trekkie]

What is a “broke” horse?

To me, a broke horse is one that leads quietly in almost any environment, that respects the tug of a lead or longe line, that will tie or cross tie quietly, that is good for the farrier without drugs, that will load or self load easily and calmly and stand on the trailer quietly and wait calmly for unloading, that will longe quietly and obediently at all three gaits on command, that stands still to be mounted, that will trail ride with quiet confidence alone or with a friend, that will do its daily job without tranquillizing drugs or excessive force and one that is generally safe and fun to have around. I know it takes time (years) and good knowledge to produce this, but are we successfully doing this in the H/J disciplines in the US on a consistent basis? Or for that matter across all the disciplines? To me, this is the foundation for all else. In my opinion, any and every amateur owner or rider should demand and/or understand how to produce this animal. We should be teaching these things to up and coming juniors. Of course every animal is different and so the steps and time taken to reach the end result may vary but the foundation developed by this approach is invaluable. Are we doing our horses a disservice by not giving them the proper foundations? Or are my impressions mistaken and this is being done on a regular and consistent basis?

[MadTrotter]

@Trekkie

will trail ride with quiet confidence alone

If this is a baseline quality then I’ve only had maybe 2 broke horses in my entire life

But this brings up a good point. I think the reasons we cannot turn out these horses with any reliability is for the same reasons we have discussed in threads about affordability, and even the threads about where have all the barn rats gone?

The generational equestrian lifestyle where one has both the luxury of time and money and land to meander the heaths is, for better or worse, disappearing. It can take a decade to make a horse like the OP describes. A lot of hours just spent teaching quiet leadership and trust. You can luck out with a horse’s base personality but there are no shortcuts.

It takes time and resources like space and knowledge to make these horses, and make riders who can keep them up.

These days, the horses that fit this bill and are for sale are working horses stepping down, which could be a great value or an expensive vet bill.

Also, people want fancy any big, which markets better than smaller and safe. English disciplines don’t have a great answer to the all-round ranch QH…I wish Morgans would come back into vogue. We don’t have an affordable cob type.

People with the money to buy these horses may not have the luxury of time to “make” a horse, and their kids are in a 50 different activities. Parents and amateurs may want “bang” for the buck and care more about a good show experience.

People with less money are buying projects which may have soundness issues or behavioral problems, or are just too athletic and spirited. They also may not have time as they are working to afford to ride.

[mvp]

@Trekkie

What is a “broke” horse?

To me, a broke horse is one that leads quietly in almost any environment, that respects the tug of a lead or longe line, that will tie or cross tie quietly, that is good for the farrier without drugs, that will load or self load easily and calmly and stand on the trailer quietly and wait calmly for unloading, that will longe quietly and obediently at all three gaits on command, that stands still to be mounted, that will trail ride with quiet confidence alone or with a friend, that will do its daily job without tranquillizing drugs or excessive force and one that is generally safe and fun to have around. I know it takes time (years) and good knowledge to produce this, but are we successfully doing this in the H/J disciplines in the US on a consistent basis? Or for that matter across all the disciplines? To me, this is the foundation for all else. In my opinion, any and every amateur owner or rider should demand and/or understand how to produce this animal. We should be teaching these things to up and coming juniors. Of course every animal is different and so the steps and time taken to reach the end result may vary but the foundation developed by this approach is invaluable. Are we doing our horses a disservice by not giving them the proper foundations? Or are my impressions mistaken and this is being done on a regular and consistent basis?

The quote makes me misty-eyed, and I had been taught the same thing as a kid: An educated horse is a safe horse because he can get along with anyone in this world and make a lot of people like him.

This obligation to the horse has always meant a lot to me because I grew up poor. I bought my first OTTB when I was in college with some life insurance money my dad left me when he died suddenly. I always worried about what would happen if I couldn’t afford the bills.

I still take pains to get a horse very, very broke (especially on the ground) so that no one else ever thinks they need to train on him or “teach him a lesson.” His life will be easier if he allows things like ear clipping, having his face washed, standing tied for a long time. He’ll keep out of trouble if any kid can lead him, catch him and let him go safely in a pasture. Some day, he might be asked to do an ignorant person a favor and load into an iffy-trailer whether or not the person has poor technique.

And a winning-but-now-disparaged Western Pleasure trainer put it another way with regards to rideability: “If one person can ride him I might have a sale. If everyone can ride him, I have an auction.” I don’t wish the “anyone can ride him” job on a horse, but depending on the mind I choose, I do make very ammy-friendly horses. I think that’s because I’m really good at training-- being clear to horses in my pattern of responses too them-- but I’m an OK rider. So the horse learns that I will always give him a signal that he has to hear and answer, but I might not be dead-on-accurate with that, and he’s got to sort it out. That is a horse that a lot of people can ride.

It takes a very long time to make up this kind of a horse. I did it with one I bred, as well as with others that came to me off the track or with 30 days under saddle. I have the desire to do it, and I adore being in a training conversation with a horse. I want to know how to train them better-- in a way that is clearer for them and thus mentally faster, if not physically faster. But I mean lots and lots of people that don’t ride for that long-term, training relationship that I do. You might be disappointed if you asked how many juniors and amateurs wanted know the “full monty” process of making up the really nice show horse they ride.

[CornishPixie]

The trained horse or the broke horse? A trained horse may do its specific job and may have some odd quirks and/or some real difficulties that professionals and/or their owners have to make accommodations for. That in no way reduces their competence for the specific job they are asked to do.

For instance, you may have an amazing 1.40 m horse who may be picky about its ears or its teeth or going outside or loading. Is it not broke because of that fearfulness? You have to adjust you approach for peace and productivity.

I don’t understand threads like these. Trying to make people feel like they are failures because their horses can be difficult.

[Trekkie]

I am not talking about a made horse set in its ways. I am talking about a process without holes to make a horse truly solid in its basic foundation–a foundation without educational gaps. Any horse can have traits like sensitive ears or skin. And some may start with less confidence alone or in new situations. I am talking about taking the time with young horses to give them a true educated foundation and the confidence to go on and succeed with many things and different owners.

[CornishPixie]

Well I understand the concept but horses are unique and respond to their starts uniquely. A racehorse may respond to his start very differently than a cutting horse or a European warmblood.

I still don’t understand your point.

Full disclosure I’ve been through some very hard times in the last two weeks and have been day drinking today so you may choose to ignore me if you wish.

[Trekkie]

As I said in the original post every horse is an individual and figuring that out and how to accommodate that to create a quiet confident animal is part of it. For example, in the UK the baby racehorses ride out in all kinds of terrain on trails together as well as train in a more traditional way. They long line them as well before backing to give them a better understanding of the rein aids before adding a rider. We tend to rush things here, I believe, across many disciplines. This creates educational gaps and more “quirks” and behavioral issues than is necessary. I think money may be driving the rush or lack of knowledge on the human side also.

[Rackonteur]

@MadTrotter

I wish Morgans would come back into vogue. We don’t have an affordable cob type.

Alas.

[Scribbler]

@Trekkie

What is a “broke” horse?

To me, a broke horse is one that leads quietly in almost any environment, that respects the tug of a lead or longe line, that will tie or cross tie quietly, that is good for the farrier without drugs, that will load or self load easily and calmly and stand on the trailer quietly and wait calmly for unloading, that will longe quietly and obediently at all three gaits on command, that stands still to be mounted, that will trail ride with quiet confidence alone or with a friend, that will do its daily job without tranquillizing drugs or excessive force and one that is generally safe and fun to have around. I know it takes time (years) and good knowledge to produce this, but are we successfully doing this in the H/J disciplines in the US on a consistent basis? Or for that matter across all the disciplines? To me, this is the foundation for all else. In my opinion, any and every amateur owner or rider should demand and/or understand how to produce this animal. We should be teaching these things to up and coming juniors. Of course every animal is different and so the steps and time taken to reach the end result may vary but the foundation developed by this approach is invaluable. Are we doing our horses a disservice by not giving them the proper foundations? Or are my impressions mistaken and this is being done on a regular and consistent basis?

Well, western trainers do this with trail and using horses. My horse does all this. But the miles you spend doing this are miles you don’t spend focusing on an English discipline. And people who compete often opt for the most horse possible meaning many juniors and ammies are riding horses that push the boundaries of their skill set by being hot forward athletic.

[NoSuchPerson]

You’re expecting way too much. You have identified things that are important to you and, I guess, achievable for the horses you deal with and the circumstances under which you function. However, those things may not all be important to everyone nor may they all be achievable under all circumstances with all horses.

The most obvious of those is “trail ride with quiet confidence alone or with a friend.” Not everyone lives or keeps their horses in a place where trail riding is even an option. Not everyone enjoys or wants to trail ride. Those folks are never going to be able to, or even care to, train their horse to trail ride “with quiet confidence alone or with a friend.”

Then consider “lunge quietly and obediently at all three gaits on command.” Do you know how many people never lunge their horse? Have never lunged their horse and see no reason why they should lunge their horse? Lunging is not the only way to accomplish certain training goals, it’s just one of the ways in which some goals can be accomplished. Not lunging is not an indication of not broke.

Nope. Your definition may be your own personal definition, but it’s far from universal and it’s certainly not my definition.

[fivestrideline]

I would say that a horse that ties, loads, clips, stands for the farrier, and lunges is GREEN broke for H/J, at best. Or for any competition discipline, really.

[Foxglove]

To me “no bite, no buck, no bolt, no rear, clips, bathes, loads, stands tied” is broke.

I have two thoughts other than that --much of what we see and accept in “today’s horses” is more due to lack of consistent use than lack of training. Daily riding is a rare thing these days and certainly daily training --actually had a former gal-pal ask me as we were trail riding and I corrected my horse for some minor infraction “do you always train your horse? Don’t you ever just ride?” —yes, I am always training my horse where possible --clearly fox hunting isn’t a great place to train, but if possible, I do correct any/all behavior when it happens. I have three extremely well “broke” horses. Because I am retired, I have the time to ride two each day (one 5-6 days a week, working on my newly learned dressage) and I alternate the other two doing either trail riding or mounted archery. To me, daily work is the key to well trained, well behaved horse.

Second thought is the comment that the “you need never worry about the future of such a horse,” sadly not true. One of the horse owners I know personally [and never speak to] took a beautiful Morgan mare who was impeccably well-trained to the local horse auction and put her into the kill pen where she was sold to kill-buyers (I heard about it long after it happened). The lovely little black mare had been in our 4-H program for 10-15 years --and I’d always admired her. She had been given to the family free as a gift by a well known breeder and trainer. She had served them well taking three kids into the ribbons during the time they had her. She was taken to the kill pen and auctioned off because she was over 30 and no longer sound. When confronted about her actions, the former owner said, “I needed the $ to buy the kids another horse for 4-H.”

[fledermaus]

You know who makes horses “broke”? Children with a lot of free time. When I was a 4H kid, my friends and I all had cheap grade western horses who all came to us with some kind of problem – bucked under saddle, wouldn’t stand for clipping, bolted – and they left us without them. We had our 4-H horse leaders who certainly helped us, but mainly we just fooled around on them all day long. Rode them sitting backwards, dressed them up in costumes, played Red Rover on horseback, and endless long trail rides. We didn’t know how to train, but what we had was time. We spent hours every summer day just messing with them in an aimless way. This, I think, is something almost no adult can do. And now, few children have the opportunity, because unstructured leisure has gone extinct.

I also have a broke horse right now. She was made that way in pretty similar ways to the above. I rarely have a trail buddy so her many hundreds of hours of trails have been almost entirely solo. I’ve never had open country or maintained trails to ride on, so we learned together how to negotiate downed trees, rocky streams, bear encounters, swampy footing, and so much more. Unlike my childhood horses, she is not and will never be “bombproof” steady, it isn’t in her, but she is the kind of horse that people call “priceless”. Oh, she’s a Morgan, traditional type.

[NancyM]

A broke horse responds adequately and accurately to cues. An unbroke horse does not.

[IPEsq]

@NoSuchPerson

You’re expecting way too much. You have identified things that are important to you and, I guess, achievable for the horses you deal with and the circumstances under which you function. However, those things may not all be important to everyone nor may they all be achievable under all circumstances with all horses.

The most obvious of those is “trail ride with quiet confidence alone or with a friend.” Not everyone lives or keeps their horses in a place where trail riding is even an option. Not everyone enjoys or wants to trail ride. Those folks are never going to be able to, or even care to, train their horse to trail ride “with quiet confidence alone or with a friend.”

Then consider “lunge quietly and obediently at all three gaits on command.” Do you know how many people never lunge their horse? Have never lunged their horse and see no reason why they should lunge their horse? Lunging is not the only way to accomplish certain training goals, it’s just one of the ways in which some goals can be accomplished. Not lunging is not an indication of not broke.

Nope. Your definition may be your own personal definition, but it’s far from universal and it’s certainly not my definition.

Being able to lunge is a skill that makes any sort of vet exam a lot easier on everyone, whether or not you ever need to or want to lunge for training or exercise purposes.

[NoSuchPerson]

@IPEsq

Being able to lunge is a skill that makes any sort of vet exam a lot easier

Any sort of exam? Do you maybe mean lameness exams? Because the majority of vet “exams” do not involve the horse moving around.

Is being able to lunge a good skill? Sure. And valuable in some circumstances. But that does not make what I said any less true and certainly does not make lunging “quietly and obediently at all three gaits on command” a universal requirement for a horse to be considered “broke.”

[Trekkie]

Interesting to me that people think my expectations are too high. To clarify-- a trail ride may mean a hack around the farm the horse lives on or the show grounds. And yes, for me these are the qualities I find that make horses nice to live with, handle and have around. To me broke does not mean beginner proof or bombproof but instead a solid mannerly animal that is obedient and respectful. Even if you never longe for any reason other than a vet exam for a
diagnosis it is extremely helpful if they are obedient and confident doing this.

[FjordBCRF]

@NoSuchPerson

@IPEsq

Being able to lunge is a skill that makes any sort of vet exam a lot easier

Any sort of exam? Do you maybe mean lameness exams? Because the majority of vet “exams” do not involve the horse moving around.

Is being able to lunge a good skill? Sure. And valuable in some circumstances. But that does not make what I said any less true and certainly does not make lunging “quietly and obediently at all three gaits on command” a universal requirement for a horse to be considered “broke.”

The only reason I worked on lunging with my fjord is so that he has the skill and is a good citizen if asked to lunge. When I had his PPE done, he was 3 and was very green. When asked to trot off in hand for flexions, he took off. I had him on a lunge line and he didnt get away from me.

He also had spring time laminitis crop up the first spring I had him, and lunging was needed for the vets lameness exam. He was broke to drive before I got him, and I’d add that as a good skill for a broke horse to have as well because there was a lot of ground driving through his laminitis rehab.

I also figured, if something happens to me that I can’t ride, him knowing how the lunge is important so I could keep him going even if I couldn’t ride.

We don’t lunge on a regular basis by ANY means being a more whoa than go fjord, but I considered it an important skill for him to know and consider it a basic.

[NoSuchPerson]

Yes, yes, I get that many of you consider lunging an essential skill. My horse, in fact, does lunge “quietly and obediently at all three gaits on command” because I think it’s an essential skill in my horse life.

But that, to repeat myself, does not make what I said untrue. There are many riding cultures in which people don’t lunge their horses, don’t teach their horses to lunge, and do not consider lunging to be a requirement for calling a horse “broke.”

I don’t understand why you all want to keep arguing with me about this. Are your horizons so limited that you truly have never encountered people who don’t lunge their otherwise very well broke horses?

[kenyarider]

Every horse I have ever had eventually became that “broke” horse. It just takes time, persistence and kindness. They were all show horses (hunters, jumpers and/or eventers) and they all hacked out alone or in company.